People can be such idiots

BW1426

Well-known member
I hate to be overly critical...but, people can be such idiots. So I went to testdrive vehicles and asked if any of the Ford or Mercury vehicles had three lower anchor sets across and he said..... "YES, they all do, because they all have three of these things up here (top tethers), so they must have three sets of lower anchors." I told him that those had to be used with seat belts as well and that the Taurus we were looking at did not have three sets of lower anchors that could be used at the same time and he told me they did (as I'm standing there staring at the position of the lower anchors) and he rolled his eyes at me. What an idiot. I've crossed that dealer off my list (my uncle even owns it). I can look past them not knowing about carseats, but I cannot look past them giving such negligent information. It's not a wonder so many carseats are installed incorrectly.

It makes me so MAD!!! :mad:
 
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NVMBR02

New member
We have been looking at cars for the past month or so, I have yet to find one that has correct information about LATCH. We looked at a 2004 Sienna and the dealer told me it didn't have LATCH in any position, that LATCH is only on the vehicles newer than 2006.

This is why I do my own research about cars and try to deal with a dealer/dearlership as little as possible. Pretty much I only go there to test drive several different cars.
 

southpawboston

New member
I hate to be overly critical...but, people can be such idiots. So I went to testdrive vehicles and asked if any of the Ford or Mercury vehicles had three lower anchor sets across and he said..... "YES, they all do, because they all have three of these things up here (top tethers), so they must have three sets of lower anchors." I told him that those had to be used with seat belts as well and that the Taurus we were looking at did not have three sets of lower anchors that could be used at the same time and he told me they did (as I'm standing there staring at the position of the lower anchors) and he rolled his eyes at me. What an idiot. I've crossed that dealer off my list (my uncle even owns it). I can look past them not knowing about carseats, but I cannot look past them giving such negligent information. It's not a wonder so many carseats are installed incorrectly.

It makes me so MAD!!! :mad:

frankly, why would you even bother to ask when you already know the answer is probably not known by most salespeople? i never ask salesmen any questions pertaining to the cars i'm looking at-- i already know way more than they do before i even enter the showroom. car salesmen are *not* car people, they rarely know more about cars than the average joe. it's just a fact of life that salespeople rarely know what the hell they're talking about, but they have to act like salesmen and make you think that they do. that's why i never ask them anything beyond what kind of deal they can give me and whether they can locate the exact car i'm looking for.
 

BW1426

Well-known member
frankly, why would you even bother to ask when you already know the answer is probably not known by most salespeople?

The only reason I asked was because I had a fabulous experience at that dealership with someone else that knew a ton about LATCH and carseats and I had hoped maybe they were trained to answer such questions...apparently that other guy was just a fluke :whistle:

He was acting irritated when I'd ask him to open cars so I could try the Radian out in it. I finally just gave up. Too bad for him, he just lost a sale.
 

Loves2sing

New member
(as I'm standing there staring at the position of the lower anchors) and he rolled his eyes at me. What an idiot. I've crossed that dealer off my list (my uncle even owns it).

I would be ticked that he rolled his eyes at me, that is just rude.

If your uncle owns the dealership, why not approach him about maybe training his employees in this area. It would probably help boost their sales, as they could be giving out proper information, and that kind of thing travels quickley by word of mouth.:twocents:
 

Jeanum

Admin - CPS Technician Emeritus
Staff member
I think I've taught car sales staff more about the vehicles they were selling in terms of child passenger safety and general safety features than vice versa during my car shopping experiences, including a Saturn sales consultant who tried to tell me that the Vue's cargo anchors were top tether anchors, when the real top tether anchors were located right on the rear seatback. While I did buy a Vue from that particular dealership because it was the only reasonably local one in my area, I did switch to another sales rep.
 

LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
We looked at a few different cars over the past few months. We were looking at a pickup (a Ridgeline, maybe? Or possibly a GMC) and when I asked about tether anchors, he said they attach right behind the seat. (In reality, they're the kind where you pass it through one loop, then attach at the next position.)

A lot of the salespeople we talked to admitted that they weren't sure about LATCH locations. I respected that. They weren't giving out incorrect information or looking stuff up. It would be nice if they DID know, but at least they were honest about it.
 

unityco

Ambassador - CPS Technician
A lot of the salespeople we talked to admitted that they weren't sure about LATCH locations. I respected that. They weren't giving out incorrect information or looking stuff up. It would be nice if they DID know, but at least they were honest about it.

That's what gets me. We looked at a Kia Rondo briefly, and the salesguy was just pulling stuff out of his a$$ because he thought it was what I wanted to hear. He told me I could put tether anchors in the third row where there were no factory installed ones (which I couldn't.) He said the tethers weren't REALLY necessary (we're in Canada, they're mandatory.) And, to top it all off he said, "don't worry about the carseats, your kid's not going to be in one that long anyway." That really got my goat! If we bought cars the way car dealers want (like every 5 years or less) my son would STILL be in a seat by the time we got rid of that car! How his seat fits is probably my number one concern when looking at a new car!

This guy also told me a bunch of other lies about the vehicle, but his carseat ones really angered me because someone else might buy them. :mad: If he had just said, "I don't know," or "let me find out," or even plain old, "no," it would have been fine.
 

carseatfreak

New member
Ugh...that is frustrating! We went through the car buying process about a year ago and I would get the strangest answers to questions. The best one though was when we were getting settled into a rental car after getting off a plane in Florida and a guy helped us carry our bags and such (that was from the rental car place). I was fighting to get my marathon into a trailblazer and the guy was like "I'll help" and he shoved the latch clip as far in the seat as it would go...and was like 'there!'...I go to grab it and see if he did indeed get it and it just comes right out!! :eek::eek: Seriously!!!!!! I still never got it that day and ended up using the belt....didn't realize you could rethread those somehow and get them to flip the latch anchor (it was upside down). :p
 

BW1426

Well-known member
The more I read some of your posts, the more this bothers me. I (as do the vast majority of you), know enough about carseats and have enough sense to double check what information some yahoo gives me about carseats, but there are a lot that don't and would consider a car salesman to be an expert on cars and therefor an expert of child restraints.

I am strongly considering writing a letter to someone high up in Ford. I'm still toying with the idea of talking to my uncle. It's a very strained relationship between my mom and her siblings and I don't want to cause waves for her sake, I could care less about my sake in this instance.

Do you think I'm far off from recounting my experience and urging Ford (and all dealer's for that matter) to be more knowledgeable about child restraint use. I don't think Ford would be happy to know they have salesman giving wrong and dangerous information about the use of their LATCH system (especially when the manual spells it out so clearly).

Furthermore, why wouldn't they have a LATCH manual on hand or a Tech's business card to point vehicle buyers with child restraints in the right direction. IMO, I think they should be doing everything in their power to cover their rearends. If childrestraint manufacturers are held accountable even if the owner is negligent, why can't a vehicle manufacturer be held accountable for giving bad advice while employed at a dealership.
 

LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
A lot of the salespeople we talked to admitted that they weren't sure about LATCH locations. I respected that. They weren't giving out incorrect information or looking stuff up. It would be nice if they DID know, but at least they were honest about it.

Duh, I meant to say they weren't MAKING stuff up...It would have been nice if they had LOOKED it up!

The more I read some of your posts, the more this bothers me. I (as do the vast majority of you), know enough about carseats and have enough sense to double check what information some yahoo gives me about carseats, but there are a lot that don't and would consider a car salesman to be an expert on cars and therefor an expert of child restraints.

I am strongly considering writing a letter to someone high up in Ford. I'm still toying with the idea of talking to my uncle. It's a very strained relationship between my mom and her siblings and I don't want to cause waves for her sake, I could care less about my sake in this instance.

Do you think I'm far off from recounting my experience and urging Ford (and all dealer's for that matter) to be more knowledgeable about child restraint use. I don't think Ford would be happy to know they have salesman giving wrong and dangerous information about the use of their LATCH system (especially when the manual spells it out so clearly).

Furthermore, why wouldn't they have a LATCH manual on hand or a Tech's business card to point vehicle buyers with child restraints in the right direction. IMO, I think they should be doing everything in their power to cover their rearends. If childrestraint manufacturers are held accountable even if the owner is negligent, why can't a vehicle manufacturer be held accountable for giving bad advice while employed at a dealership.

It's not the car dealership's job to make sure children are safe. It's the parent's job. All the information (or almost all of it... *ahem* Honda LATCH limit *ahem* :whistle:) the parent needs to know about seating positions for children is available in the car's manual. They just need to read it.

Unfortunately, people get incorrect information all the time: from BRU employees, well-meaning friends who don't know what they're talking about, random people on message boards...even some CPSTs! :eek:

Yes, it would be nice if Babies R Us and Ford employees (and zillions of other people) didn't give out inaccurate information, but I think trying to get car salesmen to read the LATCH manual is a losing battle.

It's certainly worth a letter or a chat with your uncle, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

(Sorry, feeling cynical today...)

Also, I'm not aware of child restraint manufacturers being held liable for owner's misuse? I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I'm not aware of it.

Frankly, (again, feeling cynical today--and sick), a parent who blindly accepts the car salesman's "expertise" on child restraints is likely to be a parent who also has several other installation/usage errors...:duck:
 

BW1426

Well-known member
Also, I'm not aware of child restraint manufacturers being held liable for owner's misuse? I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I'm not aware of it.

Frankly, (again, feeling cynical today--and sick), a parent who blindly accepts the car salesman's "expertise" on child restraints is likely to be a parent who also has several other installation/usage errors...:duck:

If a seat fails in a crash, even if there is some misuse by the owner (I assume not gross misuse) and a child dies or is severely injured the chances are high that the company is going to have to lay out some cash in a lawsuit.

Yes, I agree all parents need to take responsibility. Yes, it is our responsibility to care for our own children. But, people don't. As an advocate of child safety I think it is also my duty to make sure other children are safe. My feeling is that we are going to make a much greater difference if we can cut some of these large sources of misinformation at the root. The children in my care are safe. It's all those other children out there that worry me.

And, obviously it's not just car manufacturers and dealers. I think the best thing to do would be to require a mini CPS training course that goes along with birthing classes. It wouldn't solve all the problems, but it sure would solve a great deal of them.

It is my feeling that some parents are negligent by choice, but it is also my feeling that many parents are negligent because information is not given to them. (I think showing the RF crash tests in a birthing class would make a huge difference). I never knew of RF after 1 year or harnessing children after 40 pounds until I came to this board. It wasn't that I was negligent, it's just that it didn't even occur to me.

I guess, to make a long story short, we aren't going to change parents who choose to be negligent, but those that try to do the best for their children and are given faulty information are really affected. I know in theory everyone should research car safety on their own, but this is not the reality and it's the reality, not the theory that we have to switch. Essentially we have three sets of parents 1) intentionally negligent 2) negligent because of a lack of information or misinformation 3) those that are on their game and research everything for themselves.

We fall under the third category while the majority of parents fall under the first two :(

Sorry...I'm ranting :whistle: Really, I just wish I was superwoman and could change the world with a snap of my fingers.
 

Judi

CPST/Firefighter
When I test drove the smart car, i asked if I could install a car seat in it. The sale person said "sure, but she is in a booster seat, right?". She was still rear facing.
 

BW1426

Well-known member
When I test drove the smart car, i asked if I could install a car seat in it. The sale person said "sure, but she is in a booster seat, right?". She was still rear facing.

:ROTFLMAO: You go Mama!
 

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