Why is it convertible cars don't need top tethers?

wendytthomas · Apr 23, 2008

Since I'm thinking of getting one, and the Mini decidedly has forward of the bight (and looks like short, rigid stalks) belts, I'd probably be going the LATCH route. Exciting for me, it opens up new possibilities. Anyway, I don't think there's a top tether. How do they get around that requirement? What about head excursion? The backseats of convertibles are often smaller than their hardtop counterparts, so there's definitely more there to slam into going forward. I'd just feel weird using the lower anchors and nothing else, though I guess people do it all the time rear facing....

Does anyone know why?

Wendy

Jeanum · Apr 23, 2008

I believe it's due to the way most convertible tops lower and stow behind the rear seat in such a way that they lack an adequate rear package shelf/filler panel that's fixed for a tether anchor point to be physically located there. :twocents: I know of at least one convertible model, the Toyota Solara, with tether anchors right on the back of the rear headrests, so some manufacturers have gone beyond the exemption for convertibles and found a way to equip tether anchors in some of them. A Mini sounds like oodles of fun.

wendytthomas · Apr 23, 2008

I've heard that too, but the Audi A4 wagon has tether anchors right on the back of the headrest (a huge PITA location for a Britax tether since those things twist constantly and you have to tighten it down to the nub there) but the convertible doesn't have any anchors. I don't know why they couldn't put anchors just down a bit behind a seat, or on the headrest or on the panel separating the car from the trunk. I don't see how just not having room for them allows them to be ignored. It's LATCH, not LACH, if you can't have the top tether then you shouldn't have the lower anchors, and if you can have the lower anchors it means the tether is optional.

My world is falling to pieces!! AAAHHH!

Wendy

Jeanum · Apr 23, 2008

Hmm, if I'm interpreting the LATCH manual correctly, the Mini Cooper convertible does have top tether anchors on the back of the rear seats (full LATCH for each outboard seat, no vehicle seating at all in the center). I'd take one for a spin and check it out person.

wendytthomas · Apr 23, 2008

Jeanum said:
Hmm, if I'm interpreting the LATCH manual correctly, the Mini Cooper convertible does have top tether anchors on the back of the rear seats (full LATCH for each outboard seat, no vehicle seating at all in the center). I'd take one for a spin and check it out person.

I read that and I wasn't sure, since I know convertibles generally don't have top tethers. My original question stands, though hopefully the Mini will have an anchor.

The nearest dealership is two hours away. I can't go until Nathan is home, and the first weekend day he's home is May 3rd, which is a Saturday that is stupidly busy (I'm going to a town an hour away in the other direction from the dealership to help Lysandra with a LLL Baby Fair check). The following Saturday we're out of town. The dealerships aren't open on Sundays. So the earliest I can go and drive one is May 17th. I've never even been in one, just looked online. And there was a slight redesign in 2007, so the 2005 used models around here just aren't exact enough to go and look at. But believe you me, Piper's seat is going in one just after I drive it to make sure it installs and to see how the whole system works. Provided I don't hate it, that is, in which case I won't.

Wendy

TXAggieTech · Apr 23, 2008

We are looking at Minis also right now. I want the gas mileage! A friend just told me that most (maybe all) have to have premium gas so that will knock down the savings some.

wendytthomas · Apr 23, 2008

I think all of them do. I'm looking at a stick shift, which will help a little in that regard. But going from an Xterra it will be a HUGE improvement, even if I only get 27 or so.

Wendy

TXAggieTech · Apr 23, 2008

We drive an Exursion. If we go the speed limit we get 9.5 miles per gallon. If we go 5 under we get 10.5. Gas is killing us, we spend more than the price of a car most years just on the gas and upkeep.

safeinthecar · Apr 24, 2008

According to Autosite, the 2008 Convertible Mini does have tether anchors.

BookMama · Apr 24, 2008

TXAggieTech said:
We drive an Exursion. If we go the speed limit we get 9.5 miles per gallon. If we go 5 under we get 10.5. Gas is killing us, we spend more than the price of a car most years just on the gas and upkeep.

Wow, I'd seriously be thinking about a new car!

(But I bet you have a reason that you need to keep it.) Makes me appreciate my Focus and Escort - both get at least 25 MPH. :thumbsup:

groovymom2000 · Apr 24, 2008

Wendy, my DH's convertible has top tethers--it's an '05 M3. They are kind of funky to find, in that you partially raise the cover mechanism thing(hard to describe) and route the tether under the headrest. Then it stays beneath the "shelf" behind the backseat. It took me a bit to figure it out, but they are definitely there.

Lys · Apr 24, 2008

Because FMVSS 225 allows for exceptions. Convertible vehicles aren't required to have them. http://www.carseat.org/Legal/FMVSS225.pdf
S5. General exceptions. (a) Convertibles and school buses are excluded from the requirements to be equipped with tether anchorages.

Also, higher weight vehicles are exempt as well.

joolsplus3 · Apr 24, 2008

lodonal65 said:
Because FMVSS 225 allows for exceptions. Convertible vehicles aren't required to have them. http://www.carseat.org/Legal/FMVSS225.pdf
S5. General exceptions. (a) Convertibles and school buses are excluded from the requirements to be equipped with tether anchorages.

Also, higher weight vehicles are exempt as well.

b-b-but... WHY!?!?!?! <stamping foot like angry child>

(Not mad at you, mad at our government for letting us down)

wendytthomas · Apr 24, 2008

joolsplus3 said:
b-b-but... WHY!?!?!?! <stamping foot like angry child>

(Not mad at you, mad at our government for letting us down)

Exactly! School buses and mobile tanks I can understand. Though I'd rather just have my child on the seat than up high in a big Britax convertible if I'm only using lower anchors (which meant Piper's Wizards would have been retired early and if a Regent didn't fit I'd have to go to a Radian full time, which would annoy me). I don't get why they aren't required. Find *someplace* to put the anchor. You have a roll bar back there right behind the back seat. That's attached to the frame pretty securely. Put an anchor there!

The Mini having them makes me happier. I'm know I'm going to annoy the dealership guy as I'm in there butt up pulling the seats out going under the cover and prying the cover off of the anchor so I can see it for myself. LOL There is no dignity in carseats.

Wendy

TXAggieTech · Apr 24, 2008

BookMama said:
Wow, I'd seriously be thinking about a new car! (But I bet you have a reason that you need to keep it.) Makes me appreciate my Focus and Escort - both get at least 25 MPH. :thumbsup:

We pull our work trailer with us everywhere. We spend more time on the road than at home so we haven't quite decided if a second car would be worth it for the little we are home. It is possible to pull the trailer and a small car, but not the greatest idea. When DH bought my mom's Escape he had the Excursion pulling the Escape pulling the trailer.

Right now we rent a car for road trips that don't involve the trailer. It is cheaper to rent than to buy gas for the X, plus we save the maintence, wear and tear.

Defrost · Apr 24, 2008

I always thought it was because the manufacturers whined about how it would be "too hard" and most people don't transport kids in convertibles anyway. :shrug-shoulders:

Anyway, the last issue of Consumer Reports I got had convertible reviews, and noted if they had top tether anchors. I was gonna look it up for you, but it sounds like it's the Mini Coop you're interested in, not just "a convertible." But if you want me to, I can. I seem to recall that only two of the ones reviewed had them.

vonfirmath · Apr 24, 2008

TXAggieTech said:
We drive an Exursion. If we go the speed limit we get 9.5 miles per gallon. If we go 5 under we get 10.5. Gas is killing us, we spend more than the price of a car most years just on the gas and upkeep.

Yikes! Our Pontiac Montana gets 17 mpg and I wince!

wendytthomas · Apr 24, 2008

Defrost said:
I always thought it was because the manufacturers whined about how it would be "too hard" and most people don't transport kids in convertibles anyway. :shrug-shoulders:

Anyway, the last issue of Consumer Reports I got had convertible reviews, and noted if they had top tether anchors. I was gonna look it up for you, but it sounds like it's the Mini Coop you're interested in, not just "a convertible." But if you want me to, I can. I seem to recall that only two of the ones reviewed had them.

I have the car issue, if it's that one, though it didn't mention anything about LATCH or anchors. If it's a newer one and they talk about the Cooper I'd love to hear what they have to say. Both about tethers and if they like it or not.

Thanks!

Wendy

Kalinky · Apr 25, 2008

I was all miffed and P.O.'d recently b/c the 2007 LATCH Maunal states no retrofit tether anchors for Jeep Wranglers '87-'00 (we have a '00). I was literally ready to crawl up Chrysler's "A" to get them to figure out a way, approved by them, to put a stinkin' anchor in these Jeeps. Then I found out that the LATCH Manual has been updated in that area and states that Chrysler now offers a retrofit kit for '00 Wranglers! Boy did finding that out make my day! But I still feel bad for the people who have Wranglers '87-'99, who still can't get an approved retrofit tether kit for their vehicles. :thumbsdown:

It also makes absolutely NO sense to me that FMVSS 225 would allow convertibles to be exempt from having top tethers.

Defrost · Apr 26, 2008

wendytthomas said:
I have the car issue, if it's that one, though it didn't mention anything about LATCH or anchors. If it's a newer one and they talk about the Cooper I'd love to hear what they have to say. Both about tethers and if they like it or not.

Yeah, it's the May '08 regular issue (not just cars), but I checked and while they mention the Coop and it's the third down on their little "ratings" box, they didn't have a review for some reason. I suspect they recently reviewed the Coop in another issue. I'll post if I happen to find it.

Each review has a little box that lists little things, and one is "car seats." It's not a detailed description, but they say things like "rear-facing child seats might be hard to secure, but there is enough space," and "LATCH anchors are difficult to access," and "Top tether anchors are available but hooks cannot be attached correctly." (That one was for the Sebring; the Saab was the only other one in this magazine that had top tether anchors.)

Why is it convertible cars don't need top tethers?

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