Break Out Your Vehicle Manuals For Me?

Defrost · Apr 15, 2008

Could those of you with vehicles that have airbag deactivation lights dig out your manuals and check something for me?

I've always got the impression (even in tech class) that putting a RF carseat in front of an airbag with a deactivation light (as in, the light comes on to tell you that the airbag is deactivated based on the weight of the person/thing sitting on the seat) is something that technically is allowed but not something most of us would risk or recommend. As in "Well, the folks who make the cars say it's okay but I personally don't trust them." That seems a rather wishy-washy answer to me - I don't trust the deactivation lights, either, but it's not a good answer, yk?

Well, I was flipping through my owner's manual the other day ("I got it from the library for a little light reading!" /obscure Harry Potter reference) and I found this...

2007 Mazda5:

Never use a rear-facing child-restraint system in the front seat with an air bag that could deploy:
Rear-facing child-restraint systems on the front seat are particularly dangerous even though you may feel assured that a front passenger air bag will not deploy based on the fact that the front passenger air bag deactivation indicator light illuminates. The child-restraint system can be hit by a deploying air bag and moved violently backward resulting in serious injury or death to the child.

So now I'm wondering - do all cars with airbag deactivation lights have a similar warning about RF carseats? Or is it just Mazda that agrees with us that those lights are untrustworthy?

snowbird25ca · Apr 15, 2008

I'm 99% sure mine has the same warning to not put a rf'ing restraint in the front seat. I'll double check for you next time I'm out at our truck though.

Christi61315 · Apr 15, 2008

mine says the same thing. not to put a rear facing seat in that seat..

natysr · Apr 15, 2008

I looked at the manuel lfor my 2005 Nissan Pathfinder last Friday before I went to a seat check and I read that it said Do Not Ever put a RF seat in the front seat. It then said a FF seat is not advisable, but if it must be done, to put the seat all the way back etc.

I will look at the manuel for my Honda Civic on my commute home and report back.

I am editing my post just to add for now, that I do recall that the visor of my honda showes a RF seat with airbag deployed in a big circle with the "No" slash through it. So I would assume it is not allowed. I will double check with the manuel though.

mcomommy · Apr 15, 2008

mine says the exact same thing

You will also notice it talks about not leaning on the windows because of the side impact air bags. We used to always do that as kids on long trips, I told my dh that our kids will be in high back boosters as long as possible just to prevent that.

Defrost · Apr 15, 2008

Thanks for the replies so far! At least now I know I can just refer people to their owner's manuals rather than just give them an opinion, yk?

TXAggieTech · Apr 15, 2008

I'm 99% sure that every rental car has had the same line. Class said that it was not allowed also.

LISmama810 · Apr 15, 2008

Mine also says not to put a RF seat in the front passenger seat, even if the "airbag off" sign is lit.

oxeye · Apr 15, 2008

I'll double check in the morning but I am pretty sure my 05 Chrysler Pacifica says to never install a RF car seat in that position.

It definitely has a thing on the visor that talks about the advanced air bags. I'll have to look more closely at that too.

jen_nah · Apr 15, 2008

Debbie,

I have seen are real life accident where the airbag deployed even though the light showed the bag to be off. The child in the front seat was injuried (minor injuries thank goodness) but he was under the vehicles manufacture weight limit to set the sensor off. This was on a Ford SUV

Last year my good friend in the store parking lot on a rainy night (heavy rain) but through the parking lot and ran head on into a concerte light post. All of her frontal airbags deployed even though she was the only passenger in the vehicle and the front sensor was off and nothing except her purse was in the passenger seat. Her vehicle was equiped with the weight sensor and light indicator. This was on a Lexus RX350.

I don't trust them at all no matter what any automanufacture says. It's clear from the quote that the automanuafactures too are saying don't trust the sensor either. Remember it's a machine and it can malfunction even though all the best engineering went into it. Nothing is 100% when it comes to computers.

jewlsvern · Apr 16, 2008

My Mazda CX-9 manual said no RF seat in front ever and actually gave instructions on how to install a FF seat in front if ABSOLUTELY necessary.

Dillipop · Apr 16, 2008

My Hyundai manual states no cr's in the front, due to the airbag, activated or not.

solmama · Apr 16, 2008

I have a 2006 Chrysler Town and Country.

My manual states "rf child seats must NEVER be used in the front seat of a vehicle with a front passenger airbag." It does not mention this in the airbag section, it's in the child restraint section.

Of course, it also says that "children who weigh more than 20lbs and who are older than one year can ride forward facing in the vehicle."

Jeanum · Apr 16, 2008

When I grabbed our '05 Sienna's manual from the glove box, I glanced up at the sun visor. There's a blurb on the visor that says even with advanced airbags, never install a rear facing carseat in the front seat, and the same warning against a RF carseat in the front seat appears multiple times in the manual. The manual also says to only install a forward facing child restraint in the front seat if absolutely unavoidable:

A forward-facing child restraint should be allowed to be installed on the front passenger seat only when it is unavoidable. Always move the seat as far back as possible even if the "AIRBAG OFF" indicator light is illuminated, because the front passenger airbag could inflate with considerable speed and force. Otherwise, the child may be killed or seriously injured.

I'm certain DH's '08 Scion xB with advanced airbags has the same info. but the car isn't here to verify. When I've read through the Scion's manual before, the airbag and child restraint sections seemed just about identical to the Sienna's manual, including warning against allowing a rear facing carseat installed in the back seat to touch the front seatbacks.

Stretchy Glue · Apr 16, 2008

My manual and the sticker on the visor say not to use a rf seat in the front seat. I have and 05 Envoy.

Defrost · Apr 16, 2008

jen_nah said:
I don't trust them at all no matter what any automanufacture says. It's clear from the quote that the automanuafactures too are saying don't trust the sensor either. Remember it's a machine and it can malfunction even though all the best engineering went into it. Nothing is 100% when it comes to computers.

I agree! But at a seat check, it doesn't sound very professional to just say "I've heard..." or "My friend's brother's cousin had this happen..." Being able to SHOW parents what's written in their owner's manual gives my words a lot more weight, and it goes along with what I was taught in class - Read The Manual!

Adventuredad · Apr 16, 2008

Let me give you a little different perspective on this issue. I'm currently living in Sweden which takes carseat safety about ten times more serious than any other country. The manual does state a child should not be in the front if there's an airbag. At the same time, the front seat is the most recommended place for a RF seat. It's by far the safest place regardless of airbag or not.

Many kids ride in the front seat here, of course with airbags deactivated. Parents are very safety conscious but aren't scared of the airbags. Some cars, like Mercedes, have a switch and it is trusted. I would personally feel more comfortable disabling the airbag but if I had a switch I would trust it.

Keep in mind that no matter how unsafe it might feel, airbags killing kids is extremely rare. Last time I looked about 5 kids a year in US. Still tragic but there are other things that are far more important.

groovymom2000 · Apr 16, 2008

Oh Hermione--mine basically says the same as the others. No RF seat in the front.

Defrost · Apr 16, 2008

Adventuredad said:
I'm currently living in Sweden which takes carseat safety about ten times more serious than any other country.

Thanks for the different perspective. I think the statement above really says it all, though.

With an actual shut-off switch, where you turn the key to shut the airbag off, we'd be a lot less concerned. Unfortunately, all we have is sensors now, because U.S. parents couldn't even be trusted to remember to use the switch!

So it's not the switch we don't trust, it's the sensor. I watch mine go on and off a few times a week, as I frequently haul pizzas on the passenger seat. :thumbsdown:

ETA: I'm lovin' your carseat pics in your sig line!

LISmama810 · Apr 16, 2008

Adventuredad said:
At the same time, the front seat is the most recommended place for a RF seat. It's by far the safest place regardless of airbag or not.

Really? Sweden RECOMMENDS putting child restraints in the front seat? And that's safer than the back, even with an airbag? (Not calling you a liar...I've just never heard such a thing.)

Debbie-I just wanted to add that the warning stickers on my visors ('08 Prius) also specifically state "EVEN WITH ADVANCED AIRBAGS..." and then goes on to list child restraint precautions, including not having an RF seat in front. That might come in handy in case a parent doesn't have the manual with them.

Break Out Your Vehicle Manuals For Me?

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