Lawsuit issues

I was wondering if anybody had any info/knowledge of a lawsuit case against a car seat technician.

Can you give more specifics of what you're wanting to know? Your question is pretty vague.

Information such as the state where the incident occured would be helpful as many states have laws giving immunity to Car Seat Techs that are volunteering their time.

In most cases, unless one can prove that the tech was intentionally negligent, they are protected by a "good citizen" law of sorts. Proving intentional negligence would be very tough.

Are you asking about a specific case, or asking if any of us have ever heard of a CPST being sued?

I've not heard of any CPST's being involved in a lawsuit.

Simplysomething said:

Are you asking about a specific case, or asking if any of us have ever heard of a CPST being sued?

I've not heard of any CPST's being involved in a lawsuit.

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:yeahthat:

I know in PA you are protected under the Vehicle Code Title 75 as long as you act "withing the scope of your practice" and "without malicious intent."

Even seat loan programs fall under this.

HTH Sara

I don't think techs can be sued under ND law.

Stretchy Glue said:

In most cases, unless one can prove that the tech was intentionally negligent, they are protected by a "good citizen" law of sorts. Proving intentional negligence would be very tough.

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Yes, as I understand it, as long as my certification is current and I adhere to best practice guidelines and stay within a reasonable scope of practice AND do not accept compensation, I cannot be sued. (Well, anyone can be sued for anything -- it would be more accurate to say that I would not be liable.)

Details about any such cases could be found by visiting your local court house library or law school library (the librarians are usually quite helpful). There are even free legal research websites for you to Google....

I think it's a fairly accurate assumption that if anyone knows details, it's not something they'd be willing to share with a vague stranger in a public forum :twocents:

Simplysomething said:

I've not heard of any CPST's being involved in a lawsuit.

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I was told of a lawsuit against 1 CPST a decade or so ago, but the case was dropped because the parent was the one who failed to actually buckle the harness (the crash occured many days or even weeks after the seatcheck). It's a good reminder to document seatchecks thoroughly & have the parents sign the waiver form which details the education provided . . . because, unfortunately, we are a sue-happy society.

Just curious, can you be sued if you are just helping a friend but you are not a tech? Like I installed my niece's seat, could I be held liable if something happened?

mcomommy said:

Just curious, can you be sued if you are just helping a friend but you are not a tech? Like I installed my niece's seat, could I be held liable if something happened?

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Definitely. In fact I think someone who isn't certified is much more likely to be held liable in court because they're not "trained" - unless there was proof that the parents' misuse was their own fault and they could rightfully be expected to know what they did wrong was wrong. Like not buckling a harness could be considered obvious common sense, or taking the seat out and not attaching the seatbelt, again, common sense. But little subtleties could come back and bite you in the butt.

Now I would hope that friends wouldn't sue friends, and family wouldn't sue family, but when it comes down to it anyone can sue anybody for anything. Proving neglect is another matter, but if the parent feels you've put the seat in or helped them from a position of "expert knowledge" so to speak, then it leaves you open to more liability if they do sue you - simply because you don't have the official training to back you up.

I have a very comprehensive liability waiver & have forms I fill out for checks & the forms also have a liability/disclosure box that the parent has to sign. That won't prevent anyone from suing me, but it will prevent me from being held liable in court. If a parent has clearly stated and signed that they take responsibility for everything having to do with their seat, and that the information was provided appropriate to that specific day only, there's not much room to argue that anyone other than his or her self is at fault.

Well I am glad they have re installed it since then . . . so how about advice. I mean should I just not help anyone . . . just to be safe?

mcomommy said:

Well I am glad they have re installed it since then . . . so how about advice. I mean should I just not help anyone . . . just to be safe?

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I think caution is warranted, and friends/family should be referred to a certified tech at all times. It depends on what kind of advice you're giving.

If you're telling them about the benefits of erf'ing, it's different than if you're telling them the seat is too reclined and they need to do x, y and z differently. Likewise, it's different if you're reading their vehicle or carseat manual with them and show them that it says less than 1" of movement of center LATCH not allowed, and then they fix it, compared to just changing the install in their car and telling them why you did it.

I think liability is really a very tricky thing, and what it comes down to in the end is that anyone can sue anyone for anything... but that doesn't mean they have a case.

And I think what's also important, is to communicate that you're talking to them based on what the carseat manual and vehicle manual says, but that you're not an expert and they need to have their seat checked by a tech. IMO it doesn't really matter whether they do it or not - in terms of your liability anyways, just that you communicate to them to follow the manual and that you're not an expert, so they should confirm the info for themselves by following up with someone who is an expert.

eta: I think because of the lack of information, and sometimes shortage of techs, that advocates serve a very important role in their community. But it's important that they not represent themselves as experts. I think the role of an advocate is best served by providing best practice info - like links to this site and other sites with best practice, and by interacting with parents in a way that encourages them to read their manuals at all times. In other words, I think advocates have a wonderful role in talking to others about best practice and that it's fine for them to discuss misuse etc, but that they need to be directing parents to sources and reaffirming that the parent learns from the carseat manual and vehicle manual. Carseat manuals all say how to tell if the seat is installed properly, so you can always point out that specific page and have them check that way... and there's nothing wrong with sharing tips to help with an installation. I do think though, that in most cases, advocates shouldn't be getting hands on with the carseat - at least in terms of correcting things. Moving it to your own car to transport your niece? Totally reasonable for you to do that.. and like I said, I think family and close friends should fall into a different category, but you just never know.

mcomommy said:

Well I am glad they have re installed it since then . . . so how about advice. I mean should I just not help anyone . . . just to be safe?

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I think not helping a friend or family member is a little extreme. You could also be sued if you help a friend fix their toilet and it later floods the house. Or if you help your neighbor assemble a swing set and it falls down in a month. Or if you let your niece ride your dds bike and she falls down and breaks her arm. Anytime you interact with other people there is some way some dishonorable person can spin it to file a lawsuit against you. As long as your interactions are typical and reasonable, most people are not even going to think to sue you. Those people who would are people you might want to think twice about associating with.

Okay thanks

I usually only take my info from the manuel, I don't give strangers advice but that is for my own safety reasons as people can be hostile when you try to tell them they are doing something incorrect. You just never know.

I usually just tell them to go look on page "___" of their manuel for the answers or say well this is what I did (funny how so many questions would never have to be asked if people just read the manuel). I have also given them links to here about stuff. And I don't do reclines and such as I don't know how to figure that out.

It is just hard as my sil and bil are busy and tend to loose the manuel so they are fairly clueless when it comes to car seats. I installed their seat because they did not know how to get it tight, it was like 6-7 inches of movement easy So I showed sil some tricks on getting it tight and we figured out the seat belt worked better for her situation. I know they have moved it though because I gave them another seat and they played around with installs to see which one that they wanted for a back up. And I installed a seat for my friend because she could not get it tight in her rental car, (she went to a tech first and they could not get it in either) it was took me awhile but I got it in there. I feel bad not helping when people ask but until I am a tech I guess I will have to refrain from hands on stuff. It is sad that this country is so sue happy.

I was already feeling down that so many people just don't care and now I can't even really help the ones that do until I become a tech and even then I don't know if I want the liability, I can't afford extra insurance.

Thanks for letting me know though

safeinthecar said:

I think not helping a friend or family member is a little extreme. You could also be sued if you help a friend fix their toilet and it later floods the house. Or if you help your neighbor assemble a swing set and it falls down in a month. Or if you let your niece ride your dds bike and she falls down and breaks her arm. Anytime you interact with other people there is some way some dishonorable person can spin it to file a lawsuit against you. As long as your interactions are typical and reasonable, most people are not even going to think to sue you. Those people who would are people you might want to think twice about associating with.

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I will still try and verbally help and direct them to techs of course, I meant just not actually physically install the seats in their cars, which now I am think I should not being doing that anyhow because I live 1200 miles away so they NEED to learn to do it or they will be SOL if they have to move the seat.

mcomommy said:

I was already feeling down that so many people just don't care and now I can't even really help the ones that do until I become a tech and even then I don't know if I want the liability, I can't afford extra insurance.

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I believe tech insurance in the US is relatively cheap, but in most states as long as you're not doing it for profit, from the above posts anyways, it sounds like you're protected under state laws.

I think the ways you've described helping right now are positive ways that you can continue to help. I really don't want to discourage you because like I said, I think advocates have a very important role in the community.

And the examples of toilets etc. are wonderful examples because those are things that are common place to help friends and family with if you've had prior experience. I would really hope that friends/family would never sue for anything, and since you're not approaching and fixing people's installs in parking lots, I think you're just fine. :thumbsup:

I just asked my husband, who is an attorney, if I helped someone could I be liable (if a friend asked me, for example, and I am not a tech). He said proving neglect is the key, as snowbird said. The question would be whether you installed it as a "reasonable person" would, or did you put it in upside down. Did you present yourself as an expert or was there an understanding that you were not one. And then he got all fired up about responsibility of the parent to insure it was correct.

In other words, it wouldn't be an open and shut case. I would be hard pressed myself to not help a friend or family member that asked...and then I'd say "did you hear me? you need to read the manual!!!!"

safeinthecar said:

I think not helping a friend or family member is a little extreme. You could also be sued if you help a friend fix their toilet and it later floods the house. Or if you help your neighbor assemble a swing set and it falls down in a month. Or if you let your niece ride your dds bike and she falls down and breaks her arm. Anytime you interact with other people there is some way some dishonorable person can spin it to file a lawsuit against you. As long as your interactions are typical and reasonable, most people are not even going to think to sue you. Those people who would are people you might want to think twice about associating with.

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I agree. And the people I've helped have been ones who just weren't going to take the time to seek out a tech, or even go to one if I'd given them contact info, period.