Truck or SUV if can only have one?

What is wrong with that?

I grew up with VW Beetles. My dad's 1st car that he bought was a Beetle. My 1st car was a 72 Beetle. My 2 best friends had Bettles. One of my buddies in Colorado had a Baja Bug. There is nothing wrong with driving a Beetle. Since when they are targeted for females? That is very odd. Were I work and I am in the Army with more than 20 years of service. We have guys driving Beetles. We have a Marine / Navy attachment and they are some of them that drives Beetles. So I wonder where did you get the middle age man thing. Even my wife had Beetles when she grew up. Those cars has been part of my family for ages and yes, I grew up during the muscle car era. learned automotives on a 68 SS Camaro (and was my buddy's dad had a VW Van).

To give you a history lesson the Beetle was made to be the mass produced car for everybody to own. The design is round for better capacity and better crash worthiness since an Arch can hold more pressure than a Squared angle (Geometry 101, even the Romans knew that one). Also the design is Combat Proven like the Willis / Bantan Jeep. Capable to float on the water. Ridden on the harsh environments of the Sahara Desert and the frigid European Eastern Front. The Porshe 911 is pretty much a stretch beetle when they rolled out of the assembly line. An Audi TT is another stretch Beetle.

Is a well sound engineer car. Is the most sold car in the world. So where do you get your facts? At the Football field, I should say soccer.

DILLIGAFF said:

What is wrong with that?

I grew up with VW Beetles. My dad's 1st car that he bought was a Beetle. My 1st car was a 72 Beetle. My 2 best friends had Bettles. One of my buddies in Colorado had a Baja Bug. There is nothing wrong with driving a Beetle. Since when they are targeted for females? That is very odd. Were I work and I am in the Army with more than 20 years of service. We have guys driving Beetles. We have a Marine / Navy attachment and they are some of them that drives Beetles. So I wonder where did you get the middle age man thing. Even my wife had Beetles when she grew up. Those cars has been part of my family for ages and yes, I grew up during the muscle car era. learned automotives on a 68 SS Camaro (and was my buddy's dad had a VW Van).

To give you a history lesson the Beetle was made to be the mass produced car for everybody to own. The design is round for better capacity and better crash worthiness since an Arch can hold more pressure than a Squared angle. The Porshe 911 is pretty much a stretch beetle when they rolled out of the assembly line. An Audi TT is another stretch Beetle. Is a well sound engineer car. Is the most sold car in the world. So where do you get your facts? At the Football field, I should say soccer.

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See how defensive you are getting because someone made a judgemental comment about your vehicle? This is EXACTLY the point she was trying to make! Your posts have been judgemental and uninformed. You've left us in a position to have to defend our vehicles and educate you at the same time. If you want nicer responses you should do more research BEFORE you comment.

I might sound some offensive, but that is depending how is taken.

The point I was trying to make, in simple terms is that, a vehicle like those, is like using a sledge hammer to place a thumb tack. Too much of a vehicle as a daily driver. Or lets say, the wrong tool for the wrong job.

Anyway, all ya have fun

Peace out !

DILLIGAFF said:

I might sound some offensive, but that is depending how is taken.

The point I was trying to make, in simple terms is that, a vehicle like those, is like using a sledge hammer to place a thumb tack. Too much of a vehicle as a daily driver. Or lets say, the wrong tool for the wrong job.

Anyway, all ya have fun

Peace out !

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Your point won't be made when it's with opinions and uninformed comments. snowbird25ca already let you know what the purpose of this thread was and that it wasn't for debating types of vehicles.

Just to be different here, but what about a Minivan? That is going to give you plenty of seating, and plenty of cargo room. You wouldn't believe the stuff we have had in the back of our minivan

Why exactly are you needing 4 x 4? We live in a very snowy/icy area, and get around fine without.

What about a small trailer?

The Minivan is going to get you okay gas mileage, a better ride, safety, 3 comfortable rows of seating.


Or, what about the Honda Ridgeline? You won't get three rows of seating, but it would give you an extra wide back seat, 4wd, nice ride and handling, and of course a truck bed.

teh fact of the matter is that some ppl NEED a minivan or an SUV. i didnt want a minivan so we went with an suv.

i guarantee you that my R320CDI is among one of the safest vehicles out there..compared to pretty much anything else on the road. Safety and fuel efficiency (along with seating for at least 6, since that is the size of our family) were our major issues.

the Q isnt whether or not ppl have minivans or SUVS that dont need them...yes, they do...but the OP NEEDS a truck or SUV. period.

Or, what about the Honda Ridgeline? You won't get three rows of seating, but it would give you an extra wide back seat, 4wd, nice ride and handling, and of course a truck bed.[/QUOTE]

I was thinking Ridgeline too. My parents have one and it's amazing. Three full sets of latch (yes even bottom latch in the middle). Car seats install like a dream. It has a cool trunk kind of thing in the bed, so you have a secure place to store things.

My dad is an off-road guy. Has had many 4wd trucks and Jeeps. He says this is not going to do as well off road as a serious 4wd, but it works well for lighter off road stuff. It handles great in snow & ice.

AWD Sienna?

I'm going from a Sienna to an Odyssey now (don't need AWD, as our second vehicle is an SUV) but I honestly love my Sienna. We've hauled just about anything and everything in it--including a king sized mattress on the roof rack with the boxsprings in the interior of the van. We take it to the dump at least once every 2 months.. I've hauled laminate (heavy!) in it...lots of room and it has a decent towing capacity if need be.

We'll probably get rid of our Mazda Tribute for an MDX, next year. Great car, but I'm not sure I'd go with an MDX as a primary vehicle unless it were with a trailer for hauling. MDX + Trailer is a really nice combination, though!

-Nicole.

DILLIGAFF said:

The design is round for better capacity and better crash worthiness since an Arch can hold more pressure than a Squared angle (Geometry 101, even the Romans knew that one).

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Fortunately, the Romans also knew to build bridges for holding stuff on top of them. If you are mostly worried about another car falling on top of you, then by all means buy a Beetle if you think this shape is the most important factor in crash protection.

For those genuinely concerned about safety, crash test results from the IIHS and NHTSA are far more useful than the shape of the passenger compartment frame.

technogranola said:

I don't need AWD "just in case". I need it for the 6-8 months of the year that we have snow and ice. YOU might not need AWD, but for those of us in snowy Canada (and other places with crappy weather!) who want to keep our kids safe, AWD is the way to go. And you do realize that AWD isn't active all the time right?

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the implication being that those who opt not to buy AWD don't want to keep their kids safe? i think either you just mis-worded that or you really have a warped sense of the safety benefits of AWD. remember that AWD vehicles can not stop any faster than non-AWD vehicles.

i won't get into the SUV veersus minivan debate. people buy what suits them.

but i feel i do have to point out that AWD does not make a car any safer just because it can accelerate faster or get going easier on snowy/icy roads. and on top of that, the psychological phenomenon of "risk compensation" (google it if you're not familiar) actually causes AWD vehicles to be less safe, since most people who drive them *feel* that they are safer and therefore can drive in a more risky manner. i see this all the time during snowstorms. the only vehicles i see in the ditch are AWD SUVs , not the FWD compact cars .

thefosters.2 said:

You can laugh as hard as you want at my gas tab ($70 a fill-up) because I am laughing just as hard at a middle-aged MALE driving a VW Bettle. :duck:

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i guess a good laugh is healthy for everyone.

i get my laughs when i pull over to the shoulder during a snowstorm with my fuel-efficient FWD compact with dunlop wintersport M3 performance snow tires to help the clueless 4WD SUV driver push his or her vehicle out of the ditch because he thought he (or she) was invinsible ("i have an SUV, goddammit, i can go anywhere!"). of course, i only laugh after the fact. i try to come off as pleasant and unASSuming while i'm actually helping the poor schmuck :ROTFLMAO: .

granted, this applies more to truck-based SUVs and not car-based or crossover SUVs with advanced AWD and traction control like the honda pilot and acura MDX. but i see it CONSTANTLY with explorers, expeditions, suburbans, etc...

southpawboston said:

i guess a good laugh is healthy for everyone.

i get my laughs when i pull over to the shoulder during a snowstorm with my fuel-efficient FWD compact with dunlop wintersport M3 performance snow tires to help the clueless 4WD SUV driver push his or her vehicle out of the ditch because he thought he (or she) was invinsible ("i have an SUV, goddammit, i can go anywhere!"). of course, i only laugh after the fact. i try to come off as pleasant and unASSuming while i'm actually helping the poor schmuck :ROTFLMAO: .

granted, this applies more to truck-based SUVs and not car-based or crossover SUVs with advanced AWD and traction control like the honda pilot and acura MDX. but i see it CONSTANTLY with explorers, expeditions, suburbans, etc...

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4WD pickups are notorius around here for being the most populous in ditches at the first snow... Many truck-based vehicles do have some disadvantages compared to car-based ones. If you are among the very few who do heavy duty off-roading, towing or carry heavy payloads, then there isn't any real alternative, of course.

I still find it sad to see all the Suburbans, Ram 1500s, Armadas and other full size truck based models sitting in rush hour traffic with only a driver and no passengers. They have 4WD but no towing hitch. I have to wonder how people in Western Europe somehow manage to do without them?

southpawboston said:

the implication being that those who opt not to buy AWD don't want to keep their kids safe? i think either you just mis-worded that or you really have a warped sense of the safety benefits of AWD. remember that AWD vehicles can not stop any faster than non-AWD vehicles.

i won't get into the SUV veersus minivan debate. people buy what suits them.

but i feel i do have to point out that AWD does not make a car any safer just because it can accelerate faster or get going easier on snowy/icy roads. and on top of that, the psychological phenomenon of "risk compensation" (google it if you're not familiar) actually causes AWD vehicles to be less safe, since most people who drive them *feel* that they are safer and therefore can drive in a more risky manner. i see this all the time during snowstorms. the only vehicles i see in the ditch are AWD SUVs , not the FWD compact cars .

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:thumbsup:

Unless you drive unplowed rural roads, live in an area with lots of hills or in a city with poor snow removal or something, the benefits of AWD for safety are dubious. My wife has an AWD Subaru Outback. It does indeed get going a little quicker in snow. It doesn't stop or handle any better than our minivan or other 2WD vehicles have. In over 20 years of Chicago driving, I've never been stuck once because of snowy or icy conditions in a 2WD model. We don't get as much snow or ice as some areas, but we do get our share.

With traction control and good tires, the vast majority of drivers will have plenty of traction in a 2WD vehicles. For safety, stability control is feature to consider for handling less than ideal conditions. That's why stability control is being mandated after a very short period of time. AWD and 4WD have been foisted upon us all to some extent, using the idea of driving performance and freedom and a perception of safety. Unfortunately, nothing is free. The cost is a lot for society in terms of fuel consumption and repair costs. Some people genuinely benefit from AWD. Many just think they do:-( We were two of those that thought they would benefit, but didn't. Live and learn.

There are cases in which a city dweller needs 4wd/AWD. Anyone who has ever seen my neighborhood (very, very hilly, and our driveway is narrow, paved and extremely steep) understands why we're reluctant to replace our 4 wd vehicles with non 4wd vehicles. After an ice storm (remember, we never get snow), 4 wd allows us to actually leave the house - or park our cars if it starts while we're not home.

aisraeltax said:

teh fact of the matter is that some ppl NEED a minivan or an SUV. i didnt want a minivan so we went with an suv.

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True for some, no doubt, but it is a fallacy for many typical families with 2 or 3 kids. We didn't have much for typical minivans or SUVs until the mid 1980s. The roads were dominated by cars and, to a lesser degree, pickup trucks. Families managed with full size sedans and wagons. You also don't see the large minivan and SUV trend in Europe and many other countries. They make do with more fuel efficient models, somehow.

I WANTED a minivan. It's a heck of a lot more convenient than any other option. Still, we would have been fine in a larger midsize or fullsize sedan or wagon. Now, families with over 6 people don't really have a choice if they want to seat all their occupants safely. Many can still fit in a crossover (i.e. glorified station wagon) with 3 rows of seating, though.

Yes, some big families will genuinely NEED a minivan or large SUV, especially for families of 8 or more people. Still, look at those on the road and you don't usually see more than 1 person in large vehicles and rarely a full load. A lot of families could also work with two smaller vehicles and rent a big one when you need it for long trips (still saving money over buying and maintaining a full size SUV). It's not as convenient, but some families do it and save a lot of money that way, too.

southpawboston said:

the implication being that those who opt not to buy AWD don't want to keep their kids safe? i think either you just mis-worded that or you really have a warped sense of the safety benefits of AWD. remember that AWD vehicles can not stop any faster than non-AWD vehicles.

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Wow, you're totally reading something between the lines that doesn't exist. I did explicitly state "snowy Canada". I didn't go into further details about the weather where I live, but obviously I need to. Where I am, if you travel outside of the city, you ARE better off with AWD. The highways here are narrow, not well taken care of, and go for hundreds of miles between towns. So, in the winter, you could end up stuck on a grid road with no one to find you for hours/days. In the cold weather we get here, this could mean death for the occupants of a vehicle. I've owned FWD vehicles, and loved them, but they simply won't get you out of the snow as easily as an AWD vehicle. Especially an AWD vehicle that handles each of the 4 wheels separately. With the last AWD vehicle we owned, we helped pull 2 minivans out of the ditch one winter because all their wheels did was spin and they had no chains or anything with them to aid in getting themselves out. The one thing that would help is if people got a clue and put winter tires on their vehicles. The province I live in has the lowest percentage of people who use winter tires and one of the greatest amounts of snow.

but i feel i do have to point out that AWD does not make a car any safer just because it can accelerate faster or get going easier on snowy/icy roads. and on top of that, the psychological phenomenon of "risk compensation" (google it if you're not familiar) actually causes AWD vehicles to be less safe, since most people who drive them *feel* that they are safer and therefore can drive in a more risky manner. i see this all the time during snowstorms. the only vehicles i see in the ditch are AWD SUVs , not the FWD compact cars .

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Do you feel the need to point this out to ME specifically? If so, I am not sure why you feel I am so uneducated on the subject? Or are you pointing this out to people in general?

And I am sorry to disappoint, but the "risk phenomenon" does NOT apply to me. I am a careful driver no matter what I am driving. I've put winter tires on every vehicle I've owned whether it be a FWD compact or an AWD vehicle. I don't feel any safer, but I do appreciated actually being able to get going when the light goes green when some of the people beside me spin for so long that they barely make it through the intersection before the light turns yellow. We've got a LOT of rear-endings here in the winter because people just can't get going in the intersections, and the people behind get anxious.

Also, the vehicles I see in the ditches are minivans, sedans and occasionally a truck. We're a HUGE truck province because all of the farming here so I'm surprised I don't see more of them in the ditch. We could drastically reduce or minivans and sedans in the ditch though, if people would figure out that all season tires are NOT designed for our temperatures and put winter tires on their vehicles. Unless of course that risk phenomenon takes over and they all drive like lunatics with their extra traction and cause more accidents...

Just an aside, it's hard not to get defensive with the way you word your posts....

CPSDarren said:

I have to wonder how people in Western Europe somehow manage to do without them?

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they drive small cars and most have a trailer hitch for pulling around a small utility trailer for toting around gardening equipment or moving furniture or carrying trash to haul to the dump when they need.

southpawboston said:

they drive small cars and most have a trailer hitch for pulling around a small utility trailer for toting around gardening equipment or moving furniture or carrying trash to haul to the dump when they need.

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Lol, it was a rhetorical question;-)

skaterbabscpst said:

There are cases in which a city dweller needs 4wd/AWD. Anyone who has ever seen my neighborhood (very, very hilly, and our driveway is narrow, paved and extremely steep) understands why we're reluctant to replace our 4 wd vehicles with non 4wd vehicles. After an ice storm (remember, we never get snow), 4 wd allows us to actually leave the house - or park our cars if it starts while we're not home.

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Well, I did mention hilly areas

technogranola said:

I did explicitly state "snowy Canada". I didn't go into further details about the weather where I live, but obviously I need to.

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i'm no stranger to winter. rochester NY (where DW is from) gets significantly more "snowy" than it's neighbor to the north , and i spent a lot of winters skiing in the catskill mountains of upstate NY where 3 foot snowstorms are normal... somehow i always survived and got through those hilly/muddy/snowy/drifty/unplowed dirt roads with FWD. sure, there were times i'd be challenged by a hill where a 4WD would have had an easier time, but those were so rare that it never justified the added expenses that come along with 4WD.

Do you feel the need to point this out to ME specifically? If so, I am not sure why you feel I am so uneducated on the subject? Or are you pointing this out to people in general?

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i am pointing this out to people in general; i wouldn't want people reading this thread to jump on the AWD bandwagon because of a stated perception. same reason you (not specifically, but people on this forum) readily point out carseat misuse in siggies-- so that others seeing it won't get the wrong idea. it's nothing personal.

And I am sorry to disappoint, but the "risk phenomenon" does NOT apply to me. I am a careful driver no matter what I am driving.

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i'm glad to hear you're the exception. i wish more people were like you in that regard. unfortunately, there are scientific studies and statistics to back up the validity of the risk phenomenon as it pertains to the public at large.

Just an aside, it's hard not to get defensive with the way you word your posts....

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really? what about conversely, "for those of us in snowy canada who want our kids to be safe..."? yeah, i agree it's hard not to get defensive in response to that. i believe that's what prompted my original response.