Friends who just don't care...

I just took the class to be certified as a CRST, and all I can see EVERYWHERE now are examples of misuse. The latest was a friend of my dd's being put into a booster at 3.5yo and def under 40lbs...He had an EMPTY 5-pt harness seat right next to him, if you can believe it.

What do you guys do when you see this? When I've mentioned to friends that their children are in unsafe/illegal carseats, some people care, but most kind of shrug and tell me they'll fix it and never do...it's driving me nuts! And these are the same people who all have stainless steel sippy cups because they're afraid of BPA...money is usually NOT an issue.

tcottawa said:

I just took the class to be certified as a CRST, and all I can see EVERYWHERE now are examples of misuse. The latest was a friend of my dd's being put into a booster at 3.5yo and def under 40lbs...He had an EMPTY 5-pt harness seat right next to him, if you can believe it.

What do you guys do when you see this? When I've mentioned to friends that their children are in unsafe/illegal carseats, some people care, but most kind of shrug and tell me they'll fix it and never do...it's driving me nuts! And these are the same people who all have stainless steel sippy cups because they're afraid of BPA...money is usually NOT an issue.

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atleast she was 3.5(not that that is any better!). My friend just put her 2 year and 3 month DD into a booster because "the car seat maker said its for 30 pounds and up" They are going to tend to believe the instruction manual unfort. I have tried to talk to her but its a lost cause. She is going to do what shes going to do. I just try to give the facts but in the end, they are the parents and they are responsible for their own children and they are the ones who have to live with it if something happens (atleast if something happens you know you tried to convince them otherwise) Sometimes they just wont listen

Putting a 3.5 year old isn't illegal (unless the state specifically states harness up to a certain age). Some 2 and 3 year olds can legally be in boosters since they fit the minimum requirements of the booster. It may be best practice though to keep them harnessed longer though.

For me, I think I would really push for the things I see as incorrect or harmful to the child to be fixed as soon as possible (or immediately if it could be fixed on the spot). If it is something that is allowed but not best practice, I would probably approach the person with information once (handout, e-mail videos, etc.). If they weren't accepting of the info after that, I wouldn't interfere further. I can't save everyone, especially if they aren't interested.

Just make sure to let people know that you are a tech and are there to help them if they need.

Eviesmama said:

atleast she was 3.5(not that that is any better!). My friend just put her 2 year and 3 month DD into a booster because "the car seat maker said its for 30 pounds and up" They are going to tend to believe the instruction manual unfort.

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most people believe written guidelines above spoken suggestions (we ARE taught to read the manuals/instructions, etc), especially if the person giving the advice isn't an authority figure like a cop or fire fighter... KWIM? not to say you *aren't* an authority on the matter, but that's what people's perceptions are, no doubt.

southpawboston said:

most people believe written guidelines above spoken suggestions (we ARE taught to read the manuals/instructions, etc), especially if the person giving the advice isn't an authority figure like a cop or fire fighter... KWIM? not to say you *aren't* an authority on the matter, but that's what people's perceptions are, no doubt.

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hehe...except I am a firefighter and a tech and she knows that In Wisconsin our law is they must be age 4 AND 40 pounds to ride in a booster but for some reason people think if the carseat manufacturer said 30 pounds is ok then its ok.

I'll never forget my first day of CPS class when we were being taught to read seat labels and instruction manuals. Me and my partner had a Cosco Summit from 06 I believe. Our teachers wanted us to write down the age/weight/height requirements that the labels stated. I looked on ours and it stated on the sticker AND the manual "belt positioning booster mode: Age 1 and up, 30 pounds, and 27 inches" (not sure about the height thing). All I could think is some parent is going to read that and think "hey my 14 month old is 30 pounds, I can put her in a booster" and they will. I think its very irresponsible for a car seat manufacturer to state they can use booster mode over the age of 1. Can you imagine what would happen to a 1 year old in a booster in a moderate to severe accident??? They may have tested it with the 30 or 35 pound dummy and it was fine, but it was NOT tested with a wiggly one year old who 99% of the time probably wont sit correctly and who is probably MUCH shorter than the 35 pound dummy. I cant even imagine where the seat belt would lie on them. It'd have to be their abdomen.

i'm not a tech but i used to work at a car repair shop and you would not believe the seats i saw in peoples cars. seats that were older then dirt, seats that were ff only installed rf, infant seats installed ff with a seat belt not even a base(still can't figure out what that person was thinking did they forget to look at the plastic guide for the seatbelt when they put it through did they no see there was nothing holding the seat there besides their childs neck and head). i fixed most that were just not tight enough or installed horribly. no one said anything so i doubt they noticed. i actaully called the cops on one lady who had tried to buckle 4 seats ff in the back seat for children age 1-3. two were barely 3 months old (twins) and one was probably 18 months and the other was about 3. it was ridiculous i asked her about it and she just shrugged it ff and told me she travels this way all the time. the seat says she can't put it in the front seat. dear god so you thought instead one seatbelt can hold 2 seats. you just can't help people that don't want help. like someone above here said do what you can so at least you know that you tried

MomToEliEm said:

Putting a 3.5 year old isn't illegal (unless the state specifically states harness up to a certain age). Some 2 and 3 year olds can legally be in boosters since they fit the minimum requirements of the booster. It may be best practice though to keep them harnessed longer though.

For me, I think I would really push for the things I see as incorrect or harmful to the child to be fixed as soon as possible (or immediately if it could be fixed on the spot). If it is something that is allowed but not best practice, I would probably approach the person with information once (handout, e-mail videos, etc.). If they weren't accepting of the info after that, I wouldn't interfere further. I can't save everyone, especially if they aren't interested.

Just make sure to let people know that you are a tech and are there to help them if they need.

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It's illegal here ... Ack, it just drives me nuts when they don't WANT the help, as if I'm reminding them they're "bad parents". It has literally ruined my day (since it was a choice to put him there, not something done because there were no other available options).

A friend of mine literally has the WORST seats in her car. I haven't gotten a good look but one may even be expired, or close too.Straps all twisted, her older in a booster but could still be in a harness.
One time I saw her driving and her 2 yo was in her carseat, INSTALLED IN THE FRONT SEAT!! She pulled over to talk to me and I asked why she was up there because there was an empty space in back and she gave me some story about how she had her niece the day before and hadn't moved it back yet. I told her she had to , she couldn't drive around like that. I was very upset, I guess she could tell.

The worst part...HER HUSBAND IS A FIREFIGHTER/PARAMEIC!!!

It's really hard because you want to say something, but they are your friend, and you don't want to alienate them either........

I have gotten to where i cant/dont say anything. It is always taken the arong way. That I am saying they are bad parents. So I only give advice when asked (which hasn't been once yet) and they all know that I am becomeing a EMT and CPST. They still take their drs advice over mine though.

I used to be firefighter & a paramedic and I can tell you, you don't get any sort of training on types of car seats and which car seat is best for an individual child. I have seen, unfortunatly, the results of a child not being restrained in a 5 point harness and a child who should have been a booster but was in the vehicle's belt instead If some of these mothers could see what I have seen, they would start to listen and care more about their own car seats. Us mothers, those of us who some people call "obsessed" actually have the most knowledge of car seats because we know about all the different seats that are coming out and the stats on them. I think every parent should make it their buisness to know as much as possible about car seats. But some people just don't share our safety obsession and hey, what are you going to do

firemomof3 said:

I used to be firefighter & a paramedic and I can tell you, you don't get any sort of training on types of car seats and which car seat is best for an individual child. I have seen, unfortunatly, the results of a child not being restrained in a 5 point harness and a child who should have been a booster but was in the vehicle's belt instead If some of these mothers could see what I have seen, they would start to listen and care more about their own car seats. Us mothers, those of us who some people call "obsessed" actually have the most knowledge of car seats because we know about all the different seats that are coming out and the stats on them. I think every parent should make it their buisness to know as much as possible about car seats. But some people just don't share our safety obsession and hey, what are you going to do

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I too have personally been on 3 fatal accidents in my career involving children. One was a 2 year old FF who autopsy showed died of severe spinal injuries, an 8 year old in just a seatbelt who died from blunt force trauma to the abdomen (im assuming from the seatbelt) and a 4 month old who died in a freeway headon collision. She had an older infant bucket but I truly dont feel that crash was survivable no matter what.


After the last fatal crash (the 2 year old) where I had to personally tell that mother that we had done everything we could do and her child had died I made it my mission to spread the word about carseat safety. I know alot of techs are techs because they are truly interested in it and care about child safety, but when you are actually the one who has to do CPR to a child who ends up dying, the reasons behind becoming a tech are much more profound.


I have told the other moms I talk to that I am a tech and tell them I have seen the results of misuse but for some reason they just dont care. For me, because I never want to tell another mom her child has died, I just keep on yacking to them. Even though they think I may be psycho.

I honestly dont understand some of my friends. They have to have the best clothes for their kids, the best high chairs, best cribs, best toys, most expensive everything. But when it comes to the ONE thing that really matters, keeping your child alive during a crash, they slack on that. They just use whatever seat they think is fine, dont bother to use it correctly, and dont care about learning more about it, yet they always make sure to use the 5 point harness on their highchair becuase he "might" fall out, lock up every medication, child proof to the extreme in their homes, but just dont care about carseat safet. I honestly dont understand WHY people just dont care.....They do everything else in their power to protect their children, but when it comes to cars....they are just very laid back about it.

I have this issue alot with my local moms group here. I intend going for the certification class as soon as I have the money to spend...maybe they will listen to me more then. But one of them has their 19lb DD in a Regent because she liked the fabric and got a good deal...oh and because its "only 3 lbs" . I tried soo hard with her but she simply said that she had made up her mind Just the other day, one of the moms told me that I can get a ticket for having DD RFing still since she is over 20lbs, I explained to her that that wasnt true and 20lbs is the MINIMUM. She then came at me with the broken leg statement...and i came back with the internal decapitation. It is so frustrating! There is one mom is willing to listen and learn and is going to be harnessing her DD beyond 40lbs! :thumbsup:

I have a question about becoming certified: If your not affiliated with a fire dept. or some other organization, what do you do for insurance?

The main friend I have (had? we haven't talked in awhile) that had a kid while I spent any time around her...well maybe things were different 9/10 years ago, but I don't ever remember her daughter in a rearfacing seat. Ever. And I was at the kiddo's birth, I was with the two of them once a week if not more, I think I would have a memory of her girl in a rf seat.

I remember commenting on a seat of hers that looked enormous for her, and I remember the seat being ff. I also remember very sloppy harnessing.

Once she called me as an emergency-watcher when friend's job wanted her there earlier than normal, so I went down to her place...had to pick up her girl from kindergarten, maybe preschool...daughter was 3, maybe 4. Not particularly tall, very light. I asked about a carseat and was told "no, it's just a short trip, just use the seatbelt". I think I drove about 10 mph from school to home (literally a few blocks, but there was a hill and two left turns involved) I was so freaked out by this little girl in a shoulder/lap belt.

Meanwhile they bought the safest cars, they had ALL the babygear, she spent money on gymboree classes, on music things, on mommy and me events, fancy haircuts, everything fancy you can imagine, but NOT on carseats.


Maybe it's best we haven't really hung out much since I had DS, since he was rf until the weight limits of his Scenera and Roundabout, and that would have just freaked my friends out! (My no-kids friend is weirded out enough by our seat obsession, since her sisters and friends just toss their kids in cars any old way, LOL, but at least she doesn't have the "you are telling me that I am a bad parent" thing when she sees what WE do)

MomToEliEm said:

Putting a 3.5 year old isn't illegal (unless the state specifically states harness up to a certain age).

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In Canada the minimum booster weight is 40lbs, so in this case it is illegal.

As for what can you do?

Well, some people just don't "get it" and it has nothing to do with income or anything. It's that in the scheme of parenting, car safety has not made the radar the same way as bf'ing and no quilts in the crib and organic food etc...

If it's a common group of friends, my suggestion would be to do a presentation if you feel confident enough in your training. (IIRC you were recently certified, and I know it takes some time to feel confident enough to provide info to a group of parents at the same time. )

I'm lucky in that my group of friends in the vast majority of cases does care about carseat safety as much as everything else. For those that don't though, sometimes all you can do is provide the info, then step back and bite your tongue. There's a delicate balance between trying to keep their kids safe, and telling them repeatedly that what they're doing is wrong to the point where they just think to themselves "here she goes again." IYKWIM?

I think an initial observation of misuse or not following the law always warrants a friendly "oh, you know, I just learned in my class that ___ (fill in the blank.) Would you like me to help you with ____ (fill in the blank.)" Or ask if there's a reason why she has him in the booster instead of the harness - sometimes parents don't know there's options once the original seat is outgrown. Maybe all she needs is a chance to ask questions and be given safe options.

My policy is to always assume parents have the best intentions and just lack accurate info, until they prove otherwise.

I hear you. Yrsterday the oldest son stopped over with his wife and babies, and they put our TINY 4 yr old 32 pound grandson in his combo seat...it harnesses, but they use it in booster mode because "it's easier".
Sigh.
tiny 12 pound 4 month old baby was in a huge snowsuit such that the straps are nowhere near touching her body.....*shudder*..

My BF who has kids (almost 8 & 10.5) just looks at me like I'm nuts when I start talking about wanting the newer DOM on my MA for an extra 2 lbs RFing. Her oldest is out of boosters, but her youngest will be 8 in April and is only 55 lbs (10 lbs more than my almost 4 yr old!) and she was delighted that the 8yr/80lbs law has not passed yet or her DD would never be out of a booster. She's counting down the time that she can comply with 6yr/60lbs. Her DD is squirmy and I wouldn't trust her in just a belt. I think she's in a HBB simply because it hasn't worn out yet and she still fits (don't think it's expired). She just doesn't say anything when I point out that with such a lightweight that it would be best to have her secured longer. I know she thinks I'm going to give up on ERFing when DD#2 gets much past a year. Admittedly, I turned DD#1 sooner (before I knew better and it wasn't long before she would've gotten too heavy for RF anyway) but this is one issue I'm not budging on. She just gives me knowing looks because I've stated I'm following 8yr/80 lbs even if it's not the "law". Wait, she says. When you actually have to do it, you'll change your mind. Umm, NO!

At least my mom, who watches my girls while I work part time gets it. She realizes it the safest and we obviously want to keep the girls as safe as we can. It's not that we're bad drivers, but I don't trust anyone else out there driving with the lives of my children. It's called an accident for a reason--not a planned event. My DH gets it--thinks it's weird that it's safest--but gets it and supports me (even if he teases me about my car seat obsession).

I keep thinking I would love to become a tech, but how on earth could I stand seeing all the horrid seats/installations people do? I already cringe when I see incorrect things or little kids sitting in the front seats. As I mutter "that's just not safe!" my DD#1 asks me "what's not safe, mommy?" Then she wants an explanation as to why parents wouldn't do what's safe for their kids. I just say I don't know with a sad sigh. :shrug-shoulders:

When I picked up dd from school today there was one man on his cell and just opened the door and let the kid climb in, no car seat/booster, no seatbelt as proceeded to drive offon the phone. Another mom put the child in same way except she had a car seat.

I wish people would listen or read more. I really think it is the hardest when they are good friends. Mine good friend has kids older then mine and twice and many, so she thinks she knows more When I told her that I was keeping my ds harnessed for as long as possible she laughed and told me I wouldnt make it. That makes me more determind to prive her wrong.

I know that the few times I have said someting they also throw these words from their mouths that a Dr, firefighter, officer ect said it was okay. Ya, all those people are experts in car seat saftey right?

Eviesmama said:

I honestly dont understand some of my friends. They have to have the best clothes for their kids, the best high chairs, best cribs, best toys, most expensive everything. But when it comes to the ONE thing that really matters, keeping your child alive during a crash, they slack on that. They just use whatever seat they think is fine, dont bother to use it correctly, and dont care about learning more about it, yet they always make sure to use the 5 point harness on their highchair becuase he "might" fall out, lock up every medication, child proof to the extreme in their homes, but just dont care about carseat safet. I honestly dont understand WHY people just dont care.....They do everything else in their power to protect their children, but when it comes to cars....they are just very laid back about it.

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:yeahthat: OMG! It's like you're in my head lol! I say (almost exactly the samething) about some of my friends and family members!

We simply stopped buying our DS alot of stuff on holidays. Everyone else bombards him with toys! My house looks like TRU/Walmart exploded in here! We've already started socking money away for purchasing a Regent in the future! :thumbsup:

Everyone says "Oh, not everyone is rich like you and can afford a Britax." Ugh, please DH and I made $48,000 combined last year. ( the average single household income where we live is $34,000) We just don't waste our money on toys that end up in a landfill! Half the time DS plays with everything else BUT this toys! :twocents:

Sara