infant seats in a caravan

We are getting near the point where we have to consider getting a new convertible car seat for our son, or using the built in infant seat in our 2000 Dodge Caravan. We agree that it's ok for short trips, but I am concerned whether or not it meets safety standards. It seems pretty uncomfortable. I was reading stories about babies who's legs fall asleep if their legs don't dangle properly aka don't fit in the seat properly. The infant seat doesn't appear to have much support to defend against a side impact and the straps aren't adjustable vertically to accomidate the growing child. In short, I feel uneasy about using it, especially for the age range it says it can be used which starts at 23-25 pounds. What are the thoughts on this infant seat? I am also considering a britax decathelon or a cosco alpha omega 3. Is there something else I shoudl be considering?

Those built-in seats ARE very safe for children who meet the requirements, but yeah, comfort is not their strong suit .
How old, heavy, and tall is your kiddo? There are lots of seats to recommend once we know that bit of info (and why do you need a new seat, exactly?)

my baby the car seat hater

My son Eric hates his car seat with a passion. He is very advanced physically so he all but throws himself out of the car seat when I first put him in it, and throws a huge fit when I even go to pick it up. He hates it! I looked under the lining and there is no padding at all so I can see why he's not a big fan. It's a graco snugride that I bought used. I know better than to buy used now, but after inspection of the models on display in most stores, they don't seem to have padding either. He isn't overweight, but he does seem to be putting on the pounds pretty quick for being 2 weeks early. I think that most babies reach 20lbs after a year old, but he's already 14lbs 11oz at 4.5 months, which is pretty average for his age, but it seemed that he put that weight on so quick, 20 pounds seems like right around the corner. The other problem is that I have a really bad back and I just can't carry that car seat for more than a foot or two before it's too much, and I can feel it with ever pound he gains. Something tells me it's just time to get him something more comfortable that he can tolerate for more than 30 seconds. The car rides with screeming baby are getting to be a little much.

forgot to say he is 22 inches. He is in the 30 percentile for his age.

Well, he still has time in the infant carrier, but I understand why you want to make the switch.

Since he's so small, I wouldn't even consider the built-in carseats. Those are forward-facing only, and even though they start at 22-25 pounds, the child must be over a year old AND meet the minimum weight requirements before safely being able to use the built-in.

Rear-facing is much safer than forward-facing, and all convertible carseats on the market today rear-face to 30, 33 and 35 pounds, depending on manufacturer. You'll need a convertible carseat at least until your baby is over the age and weight limits to go forward-facing.

What's your budget? That will help in determining what seats to recommend.

At 4 1/2 months my son weighed 16 pound, 6 ounces. He was exactly 20 pounds at 12 months. Of course, all kids are different, but you have a bit to go before he'll weigh 20 pounds. (I know, you feel like he already weighs 100 pounds. )
You definitely should NOT use the built in seat in your Caravan yet. Babies under 1 year should never be forward facing. In fact, all children are safer rear facing up to the maximum weight of the seat they are in.
The Britax seats are the comfiest seats I've seen; my daughter stopped screaming in her seat after we moved her from a Touriva to a Britax Advantage. I believe Cosco is adding more padding to their seats as well, but the older ones I've had experience with have minimal padding.
The Decathalon also has the advantage of keeping kids harnessed until about 49 inches or 65 pounds. The Cosco seat will only harness until about 40 inches or 40 pounds. After that, it is a booster which gives your child less protection. Since seats expire after six years anyway, there is no real advantage to buying a seat now that can be used with an 80 pound kid. The Decathalon would almost surely be big enough for your son six years from now, and you wouldn't have to worry about him wiggling out of position like in a booster.
Between the two choices you listed, I would go with the Britax Decathalon. I do love the harness-height adjustment that the Britax Boulevard has, though, and if money were no object I would buy the Boulevard. It has side-impact protection as well.
Enjoy your baby! Maybe he'll walk early and give your back a break.
Julie

PS About the built in seat, we have one in our van, too. It's great for putting your kids' friends in when you need to. It's also very handy when you want to wash the car seat cover, as you don't have to worry about not going anywhere while it's drying. I have considered using it as our everyday seat once my daughter is too big to rear-face in her Marathon, but she's such a comfort-lover that I don't know if she'll want to give up the padding.

I had no intention of using the built in car seat now, but my husband is using it as a leverage tool while discussing whether or not we should get him a new seat. He hates the one he has, but my husband seems to think it's pointless to get a new one because that 23 pound weight limit for the built ins is coming up soon and he just wants to use that when it's time. I don't think they look safe and I don't really trust them to use as an every day car seat. My son is a comfort lover as well, so if he won't reach 23 pounds until he is about a year old them I don't think I can stand the insanity until that time, and I don't think my baby can either. When he does reach the weight limit to use the built ins I don't think I trust them. Does anyone know if they are safe and all that jazz. One person said yes so far. Right now I'm not really caring about money as much as I care about safety, comfort and lasting for quite a while. Opinions on built ins and favorite car seats are welcomed from all!!

I've heard from others that they are very safe to use, if the child fits the seat well. When DH and I were on vacation (minus DS), we were upgraded to a Dodge Caravan from a compact from the rental agency (no compacts left!) The van had two integrated seats. We picked up our 2 y.o. niece from somewhere and were able to use the seats. I was very excited! However, I didn't feel that the seat gave me the ability to tighten the straps to my liking. I find it much easier to tighten the straps on our MA and Husky. However, the seat turned out to be a lifesaver when we ended up having to take our 6 year old severely disabled nephew home from his grandparents. He is unable to sit in a regular seat and uses a Husky in his parents car. We were able to strap him in pretty snugly to take him the 4 blocks to his house. He was probably over the limits a bit, but seeing as there were no other options, it worked. IMO, I would tell your DH that the integrated seats are great for those emergencies that no other seat is available and get a seat you can get a tight fit in and one that makes you feel good about having your child in. I highly recommend the Britax convertibles since they will last you a long time. Your son might even be able to move directly into a booster at that time.

oh, one other thing, most babies I know reach the 20 pound limit before they are 1. My DS was 16 lbs at 4 mos and 20 lbs at 6 mos. You might find yourself needing a convertible anyway in a couple months. Besides, keeping your son rfing as long as possible will keep him safest. THe Britax convertibles will keep your son rfing until he is around 33 lbs. Just something else to think about.

Sorry, just one more thing. If you look in the FAQ's at the top of the webpage, questions 14 and 15, or 15 and 16 (can't remember exactly now!!) deal with the safety of integrated child seats. They pretty much say that the seats are safe, but then give reasons why you might not want to use them. Take a look when you get the chance.

Also, you said your son is about 22, 23 inches at 4 1/2 mos? THe graco snugride only goes to about 26 inches. I know my son reached that pretty quickly. He was about 28-29 inches at his 9 month checkup. Your son might not grow that quickly, but it is something else to consider about getting a convertible or trying to wait.

Unregistered said:

I had no intention of using the built in car seat now, but my husband is using it as a leverage tool while discussing whether or not we should get him a new seat. He hates the one he has, but my husband seems to think it's pointless to get a new one because that 23 pound weight limit for the built ins is coming up soon and he just wants to use that when it's time.

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Your husband needs to understand that it is NOT pointless to get a new carseat--it's a necessity. Your baby will outgrow the infant seat before reaching 12 months old. If he is lightweight, he'll outgrow it by height before reaching 20 pounds. In the infant seat, when he has less than one inch of hard plastic seat shell above his head he's outgrown it by height. If he carries his height in his legs, it's possible he'll reach 20 pounds and still fit in the infant carrier, thus outgrowing it by weight.

In either case, whether the infant carrier is outgrown by height or by weight, a convertible carseat will be needed. That will allow your baby to rear-face until AT LEAST 12 months old and AT LEAST the minimum starting weight for the built-in.

I just don't really understand what your husband is arguing, unless he thinks the baby can stay in the infant carrier until at least 12 months/23 pounds.

Did you mean your son is 25 inches (about the 30th percentile for his age)? If so he will definitely outgrow the Snugride before he is one year old. He is too big for it when his head is within one inch of the top of the shell.
Integrated van seats are very safe for forward-facing. And you don't have to worry about how to install it! But your son needs to be in a rear-facing seat until he is at least one. It is safer for him to be rear-facing until he is 30-35 pounds, the maximum weight for rear-facing on most convertibles. He likely won't reach that until well after age two. So you will need a convertible seat.
One thing to consider also is how long you will keep this van. I think the prime age for using this seat would be about 2-6. But will you still have this van 5 years from now? If not, you may as well get a car seat you can use for 6 years. If you honestly feel you will keep the van and use its seat, you might want to consider a Britax Roundabout; it's a little cheaper than the Decathalon, but only goes until about 40 inches or 40 pounds.
Also, will your son ever ride in other vehicles? If so, you will need a seat anyway. There are cheaper convertibles such as the Cosco Touriva and Scenera that only cost about $40-$50, but they do not have much padding, probably less than your Snugride. A 5-point harness is safer than an overhead shield, so be sure to stick with the 5-points.
You might want to try leaving your Snugride in the car. Just put your son in and take him out like you would with a bigger seat. That could give your back some relief for now, although it won't make your baby any happier.
On the comfort thing, try comparing an uncomfortable car seat to something your husband is familiar with, such as bleachers, hard plastic seats, dining room chairs, etc. Would he want to sleep in one? Because that's what babies and toddlers do in car seats.
To sum up, I think the built-in car seat is very safe once your little one is about 2 years old. The built-in car seat is not very comfortable, and you must use another car seat anyway if your son ever rides in other cars. As far as lasting, you didn't list the maximum weight from the built-in, but I would think you would need to worry more about the van lasting, anyway.
HTH,
Julie

I just thought of another thing I don't think anyone else mentioned, but just tell me to shut up if someone did. LOL
The weight limit on the SnugRide is 20 lbs (at least on mine it is, maybe different on a differnt model) and the built in seat doesn't start until 23-25 lbs. That means you have a 3-5 lb lag, which could easily be 6 months time. So you would need a RF'ing convertable anyway. If it's a money issue, tell your dh that the Britax convertables while pricey upfront, give you the most bang for your buck in the long run b/c they can be used for so long weight wise, and also height wise. Besides that you will just be happy with one. If I would have just bought a Wizard to begin with, I could have saved several hundred dollars and crappy seats that were hard to install and my son hated. Just a thought....lol

Yes, we don't have much money, either, and I had my son in the Touriva from 4 months until about 3 1/2. It took 15 minutes for me to properly install it everytime we switched vehicles. (None of our vehicles had locking seat belts at the time, so we were always struggling with locking clips. Plus the tether anchor strap was very difficult to adjust on our older model; you couldn't adjust it while it was hooked.) And you had to be so careful with the harness straps, and the harness adjuster was rather stiff. My son could sleep on a board, so comfort wasn't an issue anyway. But after all that, we ended up buying him a Marathon since he just wasn't ready for a booster. I wish I had spent the money for one in the first place. It would have saved me $40 and a lot of time and grief. (Of course, I don't know if Britax had the Marathon out in 2000. At the time, I just went to KMart and bought the cheapest seat they had with a 5-point harness.) I guess that's hindsight for you.
Julie

got my hubby intereted in a convertible

I finally got my husband interested in a convertible. I'm not sure he's convined just yet that we need it, but he will once we get it. I was comparing the britax car seats on elitecarseat.com and realized that I dont' know which one I want. I thought at first I wanted the decalthlon, then I wanted the marathon, now I think I want the wizard. I'm pretty set on either the wizard or decathlon, but I think the wizard will be just as god for less money. Are there other convertible car seats in other brands I should look at too. I was told the Evenflo Triumph 5 and the Graco Comfort Sport are also very safe. Suggestions? I also found a really good deal on a wizard for $209 with free shipping. It only comes in the midnight fabric that looks like canvas or something. It doesn't look very soft. Has anyone experienced this fabric in person?

Yay! Glad to hear your dh is coming around.

For Britax convertibles, you really can't go wrong with either of the ones you are considering. The Wizard has true side impact protection via headwings that can seem constricting for some kids, but most are fine with them. Since the Wizard has been discontinued and replaced with the Boulevard (same style seat, wider headwings, plus an infant padding insert), there are good deals for the Wizard ($209 is one of them!). I have not seen the Midnight fabric in person, so hopefully someone else can comment on that.

The Decathlon is basically a Marathon with a few changes--infant insert, three different crotch buckle positions (the Marathon only has one position) and a push-button harness adjuster like the Roundabout(versus the lever adjuster on the Marathon, Wizard and Boulevard). I don't think I'd personally pay that much more $$ for those features, but some would.

As far as other brands of convertibles go, I'd avoid the Graco ComfortSport. It has THE lowest top harness slots of all the convertible carseats (a convertible seat is outgrown forward-facing when the child's shoulders go above the top harness slots, whether the child is 40 pounds or not), plus it is near-impossible to adjust the harness when the seat is rear-facing (the harness adjuster gets smashed against the vehicle seat, making it difficult to reach). The newest models have Gracopedic comfort foam, so some models ARE very comfy--but the downsides are just too much to overcome, IMO.

The Triumph is a very nice seat. It has EPS (bike helmet) foam like Britax, and a very easy to adjust harness system. Downsides are that it's a very wide seat, which can pose a problem in some situations (fitting three across, for example), and it has a short seat shell, so most kids outgrow it rear-facing (head must be contained within the seat shell) before reaching the 30 pound rear-facing weight limit.

I would definitely go with the Britax Boulevard if you can afford it, I've used all the 65lb limit Britax seats and it is definitely my favorite, and my kids favorite.

I've got a Wizard in Midnight. It's not soft and plush like some of the Britax covers, but we really like it. The blue part is 65% poly and 35% nylon, and the black part is the soft plush stuff and it's 100% poly. It does sort of have the look of canvas, but it's very smooth. My son sweats really bad in clothes that aren't cotton, or in some other carseats we've had that had a poly cover, so I was little worried about this one, but he's never had a problem. It stays nice and cool in the summer. I think it would feel a little chilly in the winter (last winter when we first got it, it was 14 below ), but Morgan never complained. I was thinking about making a micro fleece cover to go over it (super thin) but am having second thoughts after reading another thread. lol
I thought the two denim covers (new blues and funky denim) were ugly, so I searched all over to find the Midnight and we are really happy with it. I just put it RF'ing for Cody and he is loving it too.