Using latch and seatbelt together

mish

New member
Now, before anyone freaks out, I know this is not ok. My problem is that I have a dad who won't believe me. I have tried to explain to him that it isn't tested that way, isn't necessary and that he is putting too much stress on the seat. I am just not getting my point across. Does anyone know where I can get some good information to give to him?
 
ADS

Defrost

Moderator - CPSTI Emeritus
Commend him for wanting to be extra-safe. :thumbsup:

Sounds crazy, but he'll be more likely to listen if he knows you understand his goal and his priority.

Then point out that we KNOW, by hundreds of crash-tests and real-life crashes, how carseats perform with just LATCH or just the seat belt. We KNOW how the seat will work that way.

Admit that it's entirely possible that using both could be safer - BUT the trouble is WE DON'T KNOW. Heck, it's possible it would be safer installed upside-down, too. By using both he is gambling - it could turn out to be better, or it could just as likely turn out to be much, much worse.

Is he willing to take that risk, when there is a tried-and-tested method available instead?

And if he is still willing to take that risk, at the very least try to get him to get a good install with ONE method, and then just lightly buckle the other.
 

waterbaby

New member
I always tell parents who insist on this that if they are "cementing" their seat to the car, the seat is not allowed to absorb forces of the crash as intended. The kid will be the one doing all the moving and all the absorbing. They are also voiding the seat's warranty using against manufacturer's guidleines. Which gives them no recourse should the seat malfunction in an accident... and there's just no telling how it will perform because it simply has not been tested that way to say if it's safer or not.

ETA: Uhhh... ditto Debbie, lol... but I like her approach better.
 

southpawboston

New member
I always tell parents who insist on this that if they are "cementing" their seat to the car, the seat is not allowed to absorb forces of the crash as intended. The kid will be the one doing all the moving and all the absorbing.

that's not known for a fact... again, how do you explain rigid LATCH (beginning to feel like a broken record here)? there is no room for movement or stretching with rigid LATCH, yet data from that method in europe is coming in quite positive. the data suggests that the more tightly a seat is connected to the car, the better. it really is just that we don't know if having both belt and LATCH together will cause interference with each other.
 
Last edited:

Qarin

New member
I have found that the use of the phrase, "we don't know, so if you do it you are using your child as a crash-test dummy," can help. Sometimes followed with a suggestion that if they get in an accident that way, they'll at least have some new data. I think referring to someone's child with terms like "data" and "crash test dummy" can sometimes jar a person into being sensible.
 

Synchro246

New member
Commend him for wanting to be extra-safe. :thumbsup:

Sounds crazy, but he'll be more likely to listen if he knows you understand his goal and his priority.

Then point out that we KNOW, by hundreds of crash-tests and real-life crashes, how carseats perform with just LATCH or just the seat belt. We KNOW how the seat will work that way.

Admit that it's entirely possible that using both could be safer - BUT the trouble is WE DON'T KNOW. Heck, it's possible it would be safer installed upside-down, too. By using both he is gambling - it could turn out to be better, or it could just as likely turn out to be much, much worse.

Is he willing to take that risk, when there is a tried-and-tested method available instead?

And if he is still willing to take that risk, at the very least try to get him to get a good install with ONE method, and then just lightly buckle the other.

I really like this and I tried to rep you for it, but I'm maxed out.

I have to admit, in light of the basic idea that SPB said above, i am often tempted to lightly buckle the seatbelt in addition to my rock solid latch. I WON"T though, I'm just tempted.
 

daycaremom2002

Active member
This is the way I see it. I may be totally off. If the seat is installed with both, then the seat itself takes more force because it isn't allowed to ride down the crash as the seatbelt or latch stretches. Rigid latch is designed to not have any ride down. The plastic on the seats is not. The child may absorb more forces, but if the plastic fails, the child will definately not be protected.

Any way you look at it, it is not approved. Unfortunately, some parents won't take that for an answer.:(
 

southpawboston

New member
f the seat is installed with both, then the seat itself takes more force because it isn't allowed to ride down the crash as the seatbelt or latch stretches. Rigid latch is designed to not have any ride down. The plastic on the seats is not. The child may absorb more forces, but if the plastic fails, the child will definately not be protected.

but there are some seats that have the same shell, but are available as rigid LATCH or regular LATCH. so the plastic on both is obviously strong enough to withstand the forces.
 

daycaremom2002

Active member
Like I said, I may be(probably am) wrong. They don't test it, so we may never know. I wish they would test it, just so that we could tell people why they can't do it. It isn't human nature to do something(or not do something) just because someone says so.

I have never actually seen a seat with rigid latch. Are they attached to the shell the same way a regular latch strap would be? I always thought they were attached differently.
 

natysr

New member
I really like this and I tried to rep you for it, but I'm maxed out.

I have to admit, in light of the basic idea that SPB said above, i am often tempted to lightly buckle the seatbelt in addition to my rock solid latch. I WON"T though, I'm just tempted.

I've actually heard of this being recommended, although not for installation purposes, but the keep the seatbelt out of arms reach so that it does not become a stragulation hazard for the child. I don't think it is commonplace though.
 

mish

New member
I have never heard of this being recommended. I have heard people recommend latching the seatbelt behind the car seat. When they do that, it isn't going throught the beltpath. It is latched before you put the car seat in the car.
 

Defrost

Moderator - CPSTI Emeritus
Apparently some vehicle manuals suggest it:
http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=29947

The biggest problem I have with people using both is that both times I've seen it, they weren't just tossing the seat belt through the belt path "just in case." They were using both because they couldn't get an acceptable install with one alone. This is clearly very dangerous - the systems are NOT designed to work together, and one won't make up for problems in the other. I think it's important that regardless of whether the parent chooses to use both, they fully understand that ONE of them HAS to be installed correctly.
 

Car-Seat.Org Facebook Group

Forum statistics

Threads
219,656
Messages
2,196,897
Members
13,530
Latest member
onehitko860

You must read your carseat and vehicle owner’s manual and understand any relevant state laws. These are the rules you must follow to restrain your children safely. All opinions at Car-Seat.Org are those of the individual author for informational purposes only, and do not necessarily reflect any policy or position of Carseat Media LLC. Car-Seat.Org makes no representations as to accuracy, completeness, currentness, suitability, or validity of any information on this site and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses, injuries, or damages arising from its display or use. All information is provided on an as-is basis. If you are unsure about information provided to you, please visit a local certified technician. Before posting or using our website you must read and agree to our TERMS.

Graco is a Proud Sponsor of Car-Seat.Org! Britax is a Proud Sponsor of Car-Seat.Org! Nuna Baby is a Proud Sponsor of Car-Seat.Org!

Please  Support Car-Seat.Org  with your purchases of infant, convertible, combination and boosters seats from our premier sponsors above.
Shop travel systems, strollers and baby gear from Britax, Chicco, Clek, Combi, Evenflo, First Years, Graco, Maxi-Cosi, Nuna, Safety 1st, Diono & more! ©2001-2022 Carseat Media LLC

Top