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  1. #1
    CPS Technician skipspin's Avatar
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    Post Combi Chat Transcript- January 24, 2008

    skipspin -> Special Events: Good afternoon! Feel free to check out Combi's website: http://www.combi-intl.com/ and see their products. There is also a video of the Zeus Turn available to watch.

    skipspin -> Special Events: Shannon Ingram will be our guest speaker today. She worked as the Consumer Affairs Manager and Quality Assurance Manager for Combi USA for 3 + years. Prior to working at Combi she worked for Britax in their Quality Department for 7 years.

    skipspin: Thanks for being here Shannon.

    Shannon@Combi: Thanks for inviting us!
    skipspin: I'm going to start out with some of the questions that have been submitted on the board.

    skipspin: First question: Why must the handles on the infant seats be in the up position?

    Shannon@Combi : We recommend this position because this is the way this seat is tested. We also feel that the handle will aid in rebound.

    skaterbabscps: as in preventing rebound?

    skipspin : Now that the Zeus Turn appears to be available, I'd like to know if Combi is currently working to get that rf weight limit raised? I'd also like to see the ZT manual posted on their website.

    Shannon@Combi : As in minimizing rebound.

    Shannon@Combi : The initial plan was to release the Zeus Turn (advocates are aware of this) as we feel there are some unique features and benefits to this product. The plan is to re-introduce the product at 30lbs RF and possibly 48lbs FF

    skipspin : Until then, what would you recommend when faced with the inevitable dilemma of the baby who is under 1 year old but over 22 lbs?

    Shannon@Combi : Regarding the manual, we recently launched a new website and have several new things to be added. We will post the Zeus manual within the next two weeks.

    Shannon@Combi : This has been an issue in past years with the 22lbs limit on CRS. We follow the recommendation of the AAP, but add that you contact your doctor about when you should place your child forward facing.

    skipspin -> Special Events: I heard with the new infant seat that has the rebound bar attached the weight limit is supposed to be 25 lbs instead of 22 lbs. Is this correct? (I have looked into this and there is info already released by Combi, but I will let Shannon address that anyway...)

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: No. The weight limit is 22 lbs. The only difference is that the seat now starts at birth instead of 5 lbs.

    skipspin -> Special Events: That's great that there's no lower weight limit. Have you done any product testing with low-weight babies?

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: Yes, we have conducted this testing.

    starlightCPST -> Special Events: In relation to when the child should be turned - Does Combi feel that asking the doctor is wise, when many doctors are still advocating turning the child when they can sit up unaided?

    skipspin -> Special Events: What new products does Combi have on the horizon? The current trends in CPS seem to be Side Impact Protection, extended rear facing, and extended FF harnessing. What, if anything, is Combi planning in these three areas? Also, does Combi have any plans to try to develop seats that rear-face beyond 30-35 pounds?

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: We feel a doctor is the only one who can determine whether the childs neck can withstand the loads being applied during the course of a crash (low speed).

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: Starlight...I hope this answers your specific question.

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: We are currently working on a new Convertible seat as well as a Belted Booster seat. (Key Points: New convertible 30lbs RF and 40lbs FF, BB 48lbs FF with harness) With regard to side impact protection, Combi has always considered this safety advancement within our products. (Tyro, Avatar, Kobuk, Zeus Turn and Centre) The re-introduction of the Zeus Turn and the new Convertible will extend the rear-facing recommendation to 30lbs, not beyond at this point. The Belted Booster seat is expected to extend the FF Harness seats within our line to 48lbs

    skipspin -> Special Events: 48 lbs would definately be an improvement!

    skipspin -> Special Events: Do you have any information on the top harness height?

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: Which product are you referring to?

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: The belted booster?

    skipspin -> Special Events: Any harnnessed (belted) seat that would have a weight limit over 40 lbs

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: I have a sample in my office and will measure it for you now.

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: From buttocks to the middle of the slot is 17.5 inches.
    2008-01-24 12:50:44 [Message] skipspin -> Special Events: That would be great. We'll wait for you!

    skipspin -> Special Events: From skaterbabscpst: Would the booster's height be adequate for older kids that may not need a booster, except they are seated in vehicles with no head support? For example, an average sized 12 year old?

    CPSDarren -> Special Events: While we wait, Skipspin, please tell us all about our parting gifts today!

    murphydog77 -> Special Events: Behind curtain 1, we have a gold locking clip!

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: After measuring the seat back, I believe it would only accommodate a child up to 8 -10 yrs.

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: Please keep in mind that this seat still needs to be tested.

    skipspin -> Special Events: In a few minutes I am going to open this caht up for questions. They will be moderated, so please be patient while the moderators try to keep up!

    skipspin -> Special Events: Shannon, are the seats that you already mentioned that are in the begining stages of development the only seats that Combi is developing right now?

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: Yes.

    skipspin -> Special Events: Thanks.

    crunchierthanthou -> Special Events: will the 30 lb rear facing limit on the ZT be retroactive?

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: No. It will not be retroactive so we will be required to change the name of the product.

    crunchierthanthou -> Special Events: in reference to deferring to the child's doctor- isn't there enough data suggesting that neck strength is a function of age and bone developement, rather than weight or height that you could take a stand on the issue? We know that rf is 4-5 times safer in children under age 2. As starlight said, many pediatricians follow outdated information when giving carseat recommendations. Do you not feel it's your duty as the manufacturer to provide comprehensive information in recommending the safest use of your seat? I believe the CPS community should be advocating the safEST solution.

    skipspin -> Special Events: While Shanno nis answering, remember to check out Combi's website: http://www.combi-intl.com/ and see their products. There is also a video of the Zeus Turn available to watch.

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: Regarding your first statement on age and bone development, we fully agree....

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: However, regarding the safest solution for your child, it's also important to make sure the smaller child fits well within the restraint. We highlight this with the infant insert that provides the correct angle for a smaller child.

    Kecia -> Special Events: I'm curious to know if the upcoming harnessed booster has a base/bottom similar to the Dakota. I'm a big fan of the Dakota for older kids with longer legs but have often wished that it was available as a HBB as well.

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: Combi follows the recommendations of the AAP, however, we also recommend that you contact your doctor regarding when your child should be turned.

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: No. The new booster does not have a base similiar to the Dakota.

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: However, we have in the past provided the Apogee booster that did use the same base as the Dakota.

    murphydog77 -> Special Events: Is the Shuttle infant seat essentially the same as the Centre, except that it now requires the anti-rebound bar? What's the minimum weight limit on it again? The web site says 5 lbs. Does this mean the Centre is gone?

    Kecia -> Special Events: Thanks, I hadn't realized that the Apogee bottom was the same as the Dakota.

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: Yes. The Shuttle is essentially the same. This seat starts from birth whereas the Centre started from 5 lbs.

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: The name change was based on the change in plastic (from grey to black) and the change in the minimum weight requirement.

    skipspin -> Special Events: As a general comment since I used a Combi Connection for my son: The infant padding is great. I used it for three months and it does make the seat very comfortable for smaller babies. My son is one of the "exceptions" in that he is 23 lbs at 10 months. He still fits legnth-wise in the Combi, but is over the weight limit. So, right now, there is no Combi seat that I could purchase for him and use accoring to the manufacturer instructions. Is there any plans to make the chest clip on the Connection smaller? That was my only big complaint with the seat.

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: Thanks for your comments. Actually we are looking into making the chest clip smaller.

    skipspin -> Special Events: GREAT!

    joolsplus3 -> Special Events: Can I second that, Joy? My dd came home from the hospital in the Connection and I happily used it on and off till she was about 11 months when her shoulders went quite a bit over the top slots for the harness.

    Kecia -> Special Events: I'm guessing the anti-rebound bar on the Shuttle can still be used when the carrier is installed w/o the base. Is this correct? What about the carry handle? Can it still be up when the seat is installed baseless?

    An Aurora -> Special Events: We have a Tyro II that we love. It's a great seat!
    2008-01-24 13:20:48 [Message] Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: We are looking to use the Shuttle chest clip for the Connection.

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: The ARB (anti rebound bar) should always be used on the Shuttle.

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: The handle should also be in the up position when installed without the base.

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: or with the base.
    2008-01-24 13:22:04 [Message] joolsplus3 -> Special Events: Will the Shuttle have the same compound (puzzle) buckle as the Centre?

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: Yes. The buckle has not changed.

    skaterbabscpst -> Special Events: Shannon, I would like to commend Combi for making the decision to NOT give similar seats similar names. It's a great help for techs, parents and advocated. Bravo!

    Kecia -> Special Events: Will any of the new or upcoming seats allow LATCH installation with non-standard spacing?

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: Thanks!

    CPSDarren -> Special Events: Hi Shannon- I was just browsing www.combi-intl.com and notice the Savvy product line is missing except for a twin. Was it replaced? I really liked my 1998 vintage Savvy for an ultralight:-)

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: Regarding LATCH installation with non-standard spacing....We are looking into this.

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: We only put the new or current strollers/seats on our website. Our Cosmo's are comparable to the Savvy line.

    Kecia -> Special Events: Thanks, we appreciate that. So many parents misuse LATCH in center seating positions that aren't designated for LATCH.

    skipspin -> Special Events: Shannon, are the seats on www.combi-intl.com the 08

    skipspin -> Special Events: We want to especially thank Shannon for taking the time to be the guest speaker for our chat today. We're happy that so many of our regualar posters are here to participate. The chat transcript will be available at car-seat.org as soon as we have it formatted correctly. I know there are several members that had conflicts and will be anxious to see waht happened today!

    An Aurora -> Special Events: Thank you Shannon!

    Kecia -> Special Events: Thank you Shannon!

    joolsplus3 -> Special Events: Thanks, Shannon!

    CPSDarren -> Special Events: Thank you Skipspin/Joy and Shannon for setting up this chat!

    murphydog77 -> Special Events: Thank you Shannon!

    skaterbabscpst -> Special Events: Thank you!

    starlightCPST -> Special Events: Thanks, Shannon!

    murphydog77 -> Special Events: Thanks Joy!

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: Thanks for inviting me!

    Jeanum -> Special Events: Thank you, Joy and Shannon!

    skipspin -> Special Events: Have a great afternoon. This room will be open for another 30 minutes and the moderation will be lifted shortly

    azgirl71 -> Special Events: Thank you Shannon

    Namegirl -> Special Events: Shannon, is the Zeus FAA-approved? I couldn't find that info on the Combi website.

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: The Zeus is not FAA approved. The airplane buckle interferes with the installation.

    Simplysomething -> Special Events: Can I say I really wish there was another way to view the stuff on the Combi website. It took me three tries to get the right thing when I clicked "car-seats and...successories". Like a text version of the site, something less pretty, I'm sure.

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: Thanks for the information. I will let our website "people" know.

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: Thanks for all your questions today! Have a good afternoon!

    skipspin -> Special Events: Shannon, what is the piece of foam that is placed in the bite of the seat on the Zeus video?

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: That is the recline adjustment pad that comes with the seat.

    skipspin -> Special Events: ah, okay. That answers my question!

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  3. #2
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    Re: Combi Chat Transcript

    Interesting, i just read through that.

    What is with the "Ask your child's doctor" business? I'm fairly disgusted by that...

  4. #3
    CPS Technician Starlight's Avatar
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    Re: Combi Chat Transcript

    Me too, 3 beans.

    Especially since a doctor just told my neighbor that his 20 lb 13 mo old could FF because his neck was developed enough.
    Mom to a Crew! Boys 10, 6, 4 and 2 and Girls 9 and 2!
    Don't ask me if I'm having more, I may be tempted to say yes!

  5. #4
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    Re: Combi Chat Transcript

    You know, I've got a problem with my toilet, the base keeps wiggling on the bathroom floor.

    I've got an exterminator coming tomorrow for my mouse problem, so I'll just ask him about it. Problem solved

  6. #5
    CPS Technician crunchierthanthou's Avatar
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    Re: Combi Chat Transcript

    Yeah, we were all fairly certain the lawyers were reading over her shoulder.

    Shannon@Combi -> Special Events: Regarding your first statement on age and bone development, we fully agree....

    However, regarding the safest solution for your child, it's also important to make sure the smaller child fits well within the restraint. We highlight this with the infant insert that provides the correct angle for a smaller child.

    Combi follows the recommendations of the AAP, however, we also recommend that you contact your doctor regarding when your child should be turned.
    translation: Combi recognizes there is a gaping hole in their line-up that they have no seat that we can recommend for children between 22 and 30 lbs. The fact that the ZT is by far the most expensive 40 lb convertible on the market and is still 13 lbs behind it's nearest priced competitor is beyond comprehension.

    Also, I'm a bit disappointed that they are only going to revamp the it to 30 lbs rf. That's years behind their competition, and only getting back to where they were themselves with the Avatar and Victoria.

  7. #6
    CPS Technician skipspin's Avatar
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    Re: Combi Chat Transcript

    Oh, yes, there was quite a stir during the chat when she made that comment. LOL. I could feel the flame guns coming out, and my head started to explode. Duct tape seemed to keep my head together :-)


    9 yr old in a pink zebra NBB and 5-stepping
    6 yr DS1 old in a Harmony
    4 yr old DS2 in a Nautilus and Radian
    18 mo DS3 rfing in a MyRide65

  8. #7
    CPS Advocate Kat_Momof3's Avatar
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    Re: Combi Chat Transcript

    I can't believe that the rep seemed to just brush off the 22lb rf limit so effortlessly.

    I would much rather they waited to release it entirely until they had a 30lb rf limit and 48lb ff limit instead of rushing it to market just so they could start making money on parents who didn't know any better.

    and recommending parents consult their peds is not a well-researched answer at all.



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  9. #8
    CPS Technician crunchierthanthou's Avatar
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    Re: Combi Chat Transcript

    Quote Originally Posted by Kat_Momof3 View Post
    I can't believe that the rep seemed to just brush off the 22lb rf limit so effortlessly.

    it only looks effortless in the transcript. there was a painful pause while she took a couple minutes to figure out how to dance around that.

  10. #9
    CPS Technician Sweet Mercies's Avatar
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    Re: Combi Chat Transcript

    I just got a chance to read the transcript...and wow....they sure do LOVE ($$$) their seats, but for what you get, soooo not worth the price tag.
    Melissa, CPST-I/SC
    DD-8y SK Monterey and ParkwaySG
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  11. #10
    CPS Technician Starlight's Avatar
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    Re: Combi Chat Transcript

    a couple of minutes? Wasn't it like an hour or so, for *each* question?
    Mom to a Crew! Boys 10, 6, 4 and 2 and Girls 9 and 2!
    Don't ask me if I'm having more, I may be tempted to say yes!

  12. #11
    Moderator - CPST Instructor snowbird25ca's Avatar
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    Re: Combi Chat Transcript

    Quote Originally Posted by starlightCPST View Post
    a couple of minutes? Wasn't it like an hour or so, for *each* question?
    I got the distinct impression that there was a room full of people and that she was just the spokesperson. I think everything that she said was authorized by a bunch of other people, if not straight from their mouths.
    Trudy - Canadian CPSAC certified CRST Instructor-Trainer and mommy to:
    Janeen - 17 yrs and learning to drive!
    Jillian - 11 yrs, 80'ish lbs, 5-stepping in each car. :O
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    Both safely riding in either a 2007 Outlook or a 2015 Subaru Legacy depending on the day.


  13. #12
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    Re: Combi Chat Transcript

    So it's basically worthless as it's not even FAA approved?
    Jennifer, Special Needs CPST, peds nurse, and CSFTL Admin mom to:
    AJ-13 (five steps), Evan-11 (nbb),
    Ilana-9 (nbb) ,
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