3 in Subaru Outback - need help!

kaoh

New member
We are adopting a baby in the spring and will need to fit 3 car seats in our car. I've been reading all the posts I could find on 3 in a rear seat and am now more confused than ever! Here are the specs:

Car: 2005 Subaru Outback
DS1: 4 years, 45 lbs, very tall
DS2: 33 months, 35 lbs, also very tall

Q1: DS1 is currently in a booster because he is too tall for the marathon (which we needed to put or 33 month old in anyway). So I need a new booster seat for him with a 5 point harness because he really is too immature for a regular booster. But then I am reading all the stuff about latch systems not working for over 45lbs? Is this true? Any recommendations on what to get?

Q2: We have an infant Graco snugride. With 3 in the back, what is the best configuration? Infant on driver side with DS1 in the middle?

Q3: DS2 is currently in a marathon but we'll need to get him a new seat because there is no way we can fit 3 with a marathon in the back. Any recommendations? Am thinking of the Radian 65 for him?

Q3: My car has latches for all 3 seats. But I am reading online about not using the middle seat latch - why would they have the latch system in the middle if you are not supposed to use it? Can we use it?

We are desperate not to get a new car - am out of work and the adoption is costly so we really can't afford it. So any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you!
 
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wendytthomas

Admin - CPST Instructor
Staff member
Q1: DS1 is currently in a booster because he is too tall for the marathon (which we needed to put or 33 month old in anyway). So I need a new booster seat for him with a 5 point harness because he really is too immature for a regular booster. But then I am reading all the stuff about latch systems not working for over 45lbs? Is this true? Any recommendations on what to get?

Subaru's LATCH goes to 60 pounds, but some seats have their own limits. The Marathon goes to 48 pounds. You just use the seatbelt after that.

If your son is too tall for a Marathon you have a VERY long torsoed child, which limits what seats you can get. The Radian has higher top slots and is quite narrow, but if he's so long torso'ed he'll not fit in it very long. The Recaros have 19" top slots, but again, he'll not fit in it long with such a long torso. Plus it'll squish through the shoulders, and it's not a narrow seat. How did your son outgrow the Marathon? By shoulder height? It can't be weight. Or did his ears go over the top of the shell? I'm just trying to get a better understanding of his shape and size. The new Graco Nautilus is just coming out, but it has 18" top slots, so again, not much more room than a Marathon.

Can you possible take and post a picture of him in the Marathon? You can block out his face if you want. But if he's that tall and you need to fit in a tight three across situation you may not get a lot of time out of a harness. But a Radian may get you the added time you need to get him to a mature booster age, and it'll fit in a three across.

Q2: We have an infant Graco snugride. With 3 in the back, what is the best configuration? Infant on driver side with DS1 in the middle?

The ideal situation is the least protected child in the most protected spot. So the infant goes on the side since it'll be RFing. Then DS2 in the middle and DS1 outboard. If DS1 is in a booster then he goes in the middle.

Q3: DS2 is currently in a marathon but we'll need to get him a new seat because there is no way we can fit 3 with a marathon in the back. Any recommendations? Am thinking of the Radian 65 for him?

A Radian would be good for him, definitely. I have no idea how it installs with a seatbelt in a Subaru.

[quoteQ3: My car has latches for all 3 seats. But I am reading online about not using the middle seat latch - why would they have the latch system in the middle if you are not supposed to use it? Can we use it?[/quote]

They don't, you only have LATCH outboard.

O_____O O_____O

That's how your LATCH system goes. You don't have anything connecting the two middle anchors to the frame. You can't borrow them from the outboard ones. The middle seat must use the seatbelt. Outboard you have the choice of LATCH or the seatbelt, whichever works better for you, up to the LATCH limits of the seat or the car.

We are desperate not to get a new car - am out of work and the adoption is costly so we really can't afford it. So any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you!

Congrats on your new baby. :) Do you have another car the kids will ride in as well?

Wendy
 

AdventureMom

Senior Community Member
First of all, congratulations on the upcoming adoption... :) We just recently adopted DD so I'm feeling your pain regarding the cost.

We *briefly* owned a 2006 Outback and I could not get a solid install with the Radian. Plus, with the hump in the middle, only our Marathon would fit there - the Radian just wobbled back and forth. The 2005 Outbacks are different, I believe, than the 2006? I think the 2006 was a new model year, or did it start with 2005? If it's different, then I don't believe the seats in the 2nd row are very defined bucket seats with a hump, like the 2006. Am I correct that it's more bench-like? And a little cushier than the 2006 which is pretty hard? (current Outback owners may have a better insight into this ;)) So you may get a better install with the Radian. If so, I'd try two Radians. We have a Snugride (and now a SafeSeat 1), and I believe if you can fit two Radians then your options for an infant carrier are much more broad.

--DS2 should fit in a Radian. If not, then the Nautilus. If too tall for that, the a Britax Parkway b/c it's a fairly narrow booster.
--DS1 *might* fit in a Radian - it's really hard to measure a torso. How high over the top slots is he in the Marathon? His torso growth should slow down alot right now. So if he fits in the Radian, then he should fit for awhile.
--NewBaby could then fit in the Snugride. I'd try one of the outer positions if you can get a good install in the center with one of the other seats.

As far as using the latch, does it have six latch anchors, or just four? Check your vehicle manual for specific info, but here's the general rules from most auto-makers:
-If six, then sure, use all of them (check your vehicle manual - it should explain it)
-If four, then you cannot use the outer two positions *and* the inner one as well, which would mean the two inner anchors would have the weight of two seats on them. Some -- not all -- manufacturers allow the inner two anchors to be used if the same anchor is not being used for an outer position. Again, check your manual...

Hope this helps! And, again, congratulations!
 

kaoh

New member
I'll try to answer all questions. First, my bad, I meant to type it has 3 top tether rings, latches for just the door side seats. Middle install would be with the seatbelt and hopefully using the top tether...

I don't have a pic of DS1 in the marathon and its now being used by DS 2 so the straps would need to be readjusted to get a good fit. For DS1 I was wondering about a 5 point harness toddler seat/booster like this one?
http://www.elitecarseats.com/SafeGuard-Go.pro

And I mistyped on the model - its a 2004. The outside seats do dip in a little, but the middle isn't that humpy as other threads have made it sound. The 2005 was the new redesign.

The other car they drive in is my spouse' honda civic, so we would never use that for 3 kids. Its tiny and barely fits the four of us now.

Thanks all!
 

wendytthomas

Admin - CPST Instructor
Staff member
Yes, you can use the top tether without LATCH. That's what it's there for. But you HAVE to use it with the lower anchors. It's optional and encouraged with the seatbelt.

The Safeguard Go is a fairly narrow seat, but it hasn't got a shell on it. If it could install in the middle of your car it might be ok, but with a seatbelt installation it's an....interesting installation. It was designed to be used for LATCH.

Can you sit your DS1 in the Marathon and tell us a few things?

Where is his shoulder in relation to the top slot? Make sure you put your finger through the cover to see where the slot actually is.

Where are his ears to the top of the shell?

I've put a Radian outboard in a 2007 Outback. It went in easily. But like you said, there's been a redesign since. I'd call around to some specialty baby stores and see if they have one in stock that you can try. Buy Buy Baby, Baby USA, that sort of thing. Maybe some local baby stores. See if you can get one in your car. Or better yet, see if you can get two in there. If you put one in the middle and get a good install, and you get one next to it with a good install, then you know eventually you can get three across if you need it. Though likely you'll never need more than two. Two for DS1 and DS2 now, then when DS1 outgrows it/ready for a booster it passes down to the new baby.

Wendy
 

kaoh

New member
Can you sit your DS1 in the Marathon and tell us a few things?

Where is his shoulder in relation to the top slot? Make sure you put your finger through the cover to see where the slot actually is.

Where are his ears to the top of the shell?


Wendy

Thanks Wendy. DS1 is about 44 inches tall. In the marathon, his shoulder is about 1/2 inches above the slot. The top of the back is at about the midline to the back of his head.

Are there other 5 point harness boosters that would install better in a middle seat? He does sit a regular booster now, but it just doesn't feel safe enough, and he is a fidgety kid.
 

wendytthomas

Admin - CPST Instructor
Staff member
Ok, thanks. That's very helpful. That means he's got a 17.5" torso. The Radian does allow the shoulders to go over the top slot, if you're comfortable with that (Sunshine Kids says it's ok, techs say, "What about spinal compression?"). If you're not, then don't bother, it's got 18" top slots.

The Nautilus is out, 18" top slots.

The Apex is out, besides being too wide anyway.

The Recaros 19", possible, if he fits. It sits very tall, so if he's a lanky guy he may not have too much head clearance in the car.

The Regent just won't fit. It's nearly what he needs, it's big enough for him to be comfortable and tall enough to give him a lot of time in a harness. But there's NO way you can get it in a three across in your car.

You have lockable seatbelts in your car. If you pull the belt out all the way on your son in the booster, would that help? Normally I don't encourage booster use for a mother who wants a five point harness for her 4.5 year old, but your son has a remarkable torso and in a tight situation there aren't many options to fit him and the car. If he's in the middle with a locked seatbelt he'll have some side impact protection from his booster (get a high back with wings, like the Parkway if it'll fit) and the seats next to him. With the belt locked that will seriously limit his movement.

Like I said before, though, a Radian may fit and if you're ok with his torso going over, or if his torso stops growing, he'll get enough time out of it to get him to an age which you're ok with him in a booster. Then it can be passed down. I think some have said it fits RFing in the middle, so the baby can use it.

Wendy
 

Patriot201

Car-Seat.org Ambassador
I would try:

DS1 in a Britax Parkway (narrow booster) in the center.
DS2 in a Radian outboard
Baby in a Snugride outboard


I don't know if this will work or not.
 

kaoh

New member
You are all being so helpful, so thank you. But of course I have more questions:

1) The backseat measures 49" end to end, so that's not even all usable space. Are we kidding ourselves for trying?

2) Putting the snugride one one end with DS1s current booster in the middle (booster is 17 inches across) means that the booster hangs over the latch we need for DS2's seat.

3) Most of the boosters I have found online are 17 inches. Except for the Combi which claims 16.5 inches. Anything slimmer but still safe? The Radian looks awesome and I may get one anyway, but its also measuring 17 inches across.

4) Is the Recaro worth the staggering price? It claims to be 13 inches, though I imagine that's interior seat and not seat base?

We are feeling very discouraged...
 

jlks29

CPS Technician
No ideas - just lurking for answers. :whistle:

We have a 2004 Outback and we were going to go with 3 Radians but the tech who was helping me try it in our car said that our seat belts weren't compatible with the Radian. She also said that Radian is releasing a redesigned seat in Sept. 08 that may or may not be compatible with more seatbelts. Too late for you, I know, but I thought I'd put that out there.

Congrats on the new addition!

Jessica
 

emurray

New member
We have a 2003 Outback limited and want to fit two Graco Snugrides and an RF convertible carseat. (We have twins on the way and our oldest will be 10 mo when they arrive). My brother is currently using a Britax Marathon and a Graco Snugride with his kids and our current seat is the Snugride so we tried fitting all three in the back of my Outback. On paper it should not have worked (17.5" + 17.5" + 19.5" = 54.5"), but by golly it did. It was VERY tight, but the doors were able to shut. The outboard seats fit better using seatbelts- the LATCh straps were a little off center.

I wouldn't call the experiment a total success- in my opinion the seats were too close together to be completely safe, but it did let me know that a more narrow convertible seat will definitely fit with the two Snugrides. Right now I'm leaning towards the Britax Diplomat (19"W).

I have read other places that while the Radian 65 & 80 are nice and narrow they are also very deep when rear facing and do not fit well into the Outback. They push the front passenger seat so far forward it's unusable. The Diplomat is designed for smaller cars and is more shallow. The Radians are also much heavier than the Britax seats- 22 lbs vs 15 lbs. Not as easy to bring along for air travel.

Eventually, when it's time for all of them to be in convertible seats, we will have to suck it up and buy a bigger car, but it's a relief that we won't have to rush out and get something before the twins arrive.

Elizabeth
 
S

Saling

Guest
I realize that this reply comes a bit late for the initial poster. We recently found out that we are expecting our third (by surprise) and were searching for a way to get three seats installed in a 2005 Outback wagon, thus avoiding the need to look for a new car. I have combed these postings looking for hints or confirmation that 3 across in an Outback can be done, and I would like to report a successful 3 across installation in a 2005 Outback Limited (leather seats).

Having worked with three different seat models in different configurations in this car (as our two boys grew) I can echo many of the comments about the difficulties in getting solid installs in the 2005 Outback (especially with leather seats).

Taking the advice of many of the prior posters here, we pursued a combination of Radian seats with a Snugride bucket. Prior to dropping the $ for new Radian seats, we decided to borrow my brother’s Radian 65 to test the install and determine if we could get a “good” install. The model we tested is an older design, but I’m pleased to say that we were able to get a “good” FF install using both LATCH and belts in the outboard positions and with the belt in the center position. These installations were not inspected by a CPS, so I cannot vouch for their "official" fit, but they felt solid enough to convince us that we should explore the 3 across option with Radians further.

We ordered two Radian 80 seats. When they arrived, we noticed one prominent design change from the Radian 65 we borrowed. The new models have rubber “pads” on the base of the seat (whereas the older model’s base was just the metal frame of the seat). This design change eliminates a lot of the “sliding” or movement that many other posters have noted and allows for a solid install using both belts and LATCH (where applicable).

We achieved a solid 3 across install in the following configuration: driver’s side: Snugride RF with belt, center: Radian FF with belt and top tether, passenger side: Radian FF with belt and top tether. We installed the center seat first, making sure it was solid, and then installed the two outboard seats.

As of last night (3/4/2009), we had the install checked by a Safe Kids certified inspector and she confirmed that the install was “rock solid.”

Yippee!!

I’ll take a $500 investment in new seats over the purchase of a minivan for the new few years.

Details on the seats:
2 – Radian 80 seats FF with top tethers
1 Snugride (or similar bucket-type infant seat)

Details on our children:
Son #1: 3.5 years old and 44 pounds.
Son #2: 14 months and 22 pounds.
 

Maedze

New member
Hi PP,


While I'm pleased that you were able to find a working solution, I am very concerned that you have your 22 pound 14 month old foward facing.


The old advice that it's 'safe' to forward face at 1 year and 20 pounds, is outdated, inaccurate, and in some cases lethal. Babies under two years need to remain in a rearfacing position to the limits of their convertibles. Most kids can safely get to 2-3 years, sometimes more, in American convertibles. A child outgrows a convertible when he reaches the weight limit or his head has less than 1" of shell from the top of the seat.


I would recommend either attempting to place the second Radian rearfacing, or purchasing a Safety First Avenue (a fairly narrow convertible with nice high top slots and a 35 pound rearfacing limit) to use for the next few years with your 14 month old. It simply isn't safe for him to be forward facing at this age.
 
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