Wanna read my funny (sad) story?

So we are car shopping. We're deciding between the Ody and Sienna. Let me add here that we currently drive an 02 Caravan.

Yesterday we test drove an Ody. I tried to install our Regent. I couldn't. I simply could not get the seat belt tight. I pulled and pulled. Put all my weight into it. As soon as I let go the belt would just slide back. My DH tried. Same outcome. We could not get the seat installed. The saleswoman tried to pull on the belt and same thing. She couldn't get it tight. She called another salesman over and he pulled on the belt. He told me that it was fine how the seat was because in a crash the seat belt would tighten. Um, no. It was like I had just set the seat in and not even strapped it with the belt. No, sir, it's not installed properly. He shrugged and said, "Well, I don't know what to tell you." The woman said she has an Ody and her carseats install just fine.

I stood there in shock not believing that I could not install my seat in this van. I was thinking, "Isn't this the #1 family van? How can the seatbelts not work?"

Enter third salesman. Same deal. He actually didn't know how a carseat was supposed to be installed. He has no kids. I showed him how the Regent installs in the Caravan so he could feel how the seat is not supposed to move. He tried all sorts of things to get the belt in the Ody to tighten. He closed the doors. He started the van. He put it in drive. Nothing got the belts to tighten. He had no explaination. Finally, in a moment of epiphany DH asks to see the car manual. Salesman gets it from the office. Sure enough there's a magic trick. Apparently, you have to pull the shoulder strap all the way out and then slowly release it to lock the belt. I'm sure most everyone here on this board knows that. I did not. My Caravan automatically locks. DH and I had no clue that all vehicles weren't this way. So we learned something. I felt a little silly, however, I've never encountered that before. Even my parents' Ford van automatically locks. I think it's kind of funny because I was really thinking that everyone on this board who raves about Ody's was crazy.

The sad part is that *three* sales people had NO clue as to how to install car seats or how to tighten/lock the seatbelts. That is sad. The last guy who was with us actually admitted that he was embarassed because he's been selling Hondas for 4 years and he didn't know. That, however, is not as bad as the saleswoman who said she installed her kids car seats into her Ody...and she could not install my seat. Um, what does that tell you about how her seats are installed?

DH now believes me when I tell him that the majority of seats are installed incorrectly.

Anyway, so that's my "duh" story. We'll be test driving a Sienna soon and this time I'll be ready to pull the belt out if I need to.

Kleine hexe said:

Finally, in a moment of epiphany DH asks to see the car manual. Salesman gets it from the office. Sure enough there's a magic trick. Apparently, you have to pull the shoulder strap all the way out and then slowly release it to lock the belt. I'm sure most everyone here on this board knows that. I did not. My Caravan automatically locks. DH and I had no clue that all vehicles weren't this way. So we learned something. I felt a little silly, however, I've never encountered that before.

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Ummm, lol, that's the only way I know how to engage the locking mechanism IS to pull it out all the way. I couldn't get my Gma-In-law's Highlander to engage this way when we tried out dd in a booster seat. I felt so silly too. My Toyota & Dh's VW are Pull out & engage belts, so I never really thought about difference, especially since her Highlander IS another Toyota.

So don't feel badly. Just always ask for the manual.

So officially for the record -- 3 car sales people brains are still not as good as a carseat.org member by association that your dh is

You're right, it is pathetic that they were so clueles.

Don't feel bad at all hey at least your dh asked to see the owners manual. You would have thought the sales people would have resorted to the manual before the customer.

Not many manufactures use the clinching latch plates like Dodge/Chrysler do anymore. So, Yes you will have to pull the seatbelt on the Sienna just like the Ody.

I can only hope the sales lady is using LATCH with her seats then b/c if not pray for those little kids.

We just bought a new 2008 Dodge Grand Caravan and love it... previously had an '03 that was okay.

The new 2008's are also switchable seatbelts (like the Ody and Sienna). The only seatbelt that is still a cinching latchplate is the middle seat in the third row... and it is *also* a switchable (pull and lock) seatbelt. However their manual indicates that *all* seating positions are cinching latchplates... totally false and dangerous info for people that actually read their manuals.

What is the pro/con of a switchable? Out of curiosity.

Glad you figured out how to locl the ALR (Automatic Locking Retractor). The pro the a ALR vs a ELR (Emergency Locking Retractor) to me is 100% being able to get a tight install. ElR will only lock in a emergency situation as the salesman said and you don't know how loose the seat may be already when it decides to lock.

No, I meant what are the pros/cons of the switchable locks vs the clinchable latch plates?

Kleine hexe said:

No, I meant what are the pros/cons of the switchable locks vs the clinchable latch plates?

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Oh ok. To me a ALR is the most convient when it comes to locking latchplates vs ALR.

Locking latchplates with a shoulderbelt are usually lightweight and tend to work thier way loose. You need to make sure you check that it is still secure. This would be my Con.

A lapbelt usually has a locking latch plate that as long as it is positioned correctly will stay locked. They are great for car seat installs!

There are also switchable latchplates. This is when there is a switch on the latchplate that youo can turn to lock the belt. I do not know a lot about them I have only seen a couple.

Overall they all serve the same purpose by locking just in different ways. As long as they are used according to the vehicle manufacture they will do thier job.

There are threads on here that talk a little more about the differences. I will see if I can find any.

The vast majority of lockable seatbelts are switchables, not locking plates Dodge/Chrysler are pretty much the only ones who have the locking plates and I think even they have switched over to switchables. Ford had them way back, as well, I think.


IME, seatbelt install with a switchable is MUCH easier than seatbelt install with a lightweight locking latchplate. (I have a Dodge Stratus.) Once you get the belt clipped in, it's locked unless you pull in exactly the right position, and depending on the size of the car/angle you are working with, it can be quite difficult to tighten it properly. Switchables don't have that trouble, and you can REALLY ratchet those babies down.

Also, being able to lock the shoulder belt is handy for younger kids in boosters :thumbsup:

ThreeBeans said:

The vast majority of lockable seatbelts are switchables, not locking plates Dodge/Chrysler are pretty much the only ones who have the locking plates and I think even they have switched over to switchables. Ford had them way back, as well, I think.

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Dodge definately has both. We have:
2001 Doge Ram 3500 = ALR
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 = ELR with lightweight locking latchplate
2006 Dodge Ram 1500 = ALR

DH know better than to let anyone touch the carseat in the 05. I hate having to reinstall it. It stays tight for a awhile before I start to notice it slipping some. Still a PIA to keep tight at times.

I'll be the odd-man-out and admit I prefer locking latchplates like we have in our Chevy Astro. (Those are actual locking latchplates, not lightweight locking latchplates!) It's really just a matter of preference, not safety, and somewhat moot since locking latchplates are apparently being phased out.

Switchable seat belts that you pull out at the shoulder to lock are nice for booster seats, but I've always found it easier to install carseats with a locking latchplate. I also like like that the lap belt is always locked for passengers not using a carseat. :shrug-shoulders:

Defrost said:

I'll be the odd-man-out and admit I prefer locking latchplates like we have in our Chevy Astro. (Those are actual locking latchplates, not lightweight locking latchplates!) It's really just a matter of preference, not safety, and somewhat moot since locking latchplates are apparently being phased out.

Switchable seat belts that you pull out at the shoulder to lock are nice for booster seats, but I've always found it easier to install carseats with a locking latchplate. I also like like that the lap belt is always locked for passengers not using a carseat. :shrug-shoulders:

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It is all a matter of preference. I do agree on the lapbelts with the locking latchplaes being easy to do installs! As long as the latchplate is laying in ta parallel postition is is great!

:fencing:

ThreeBeans said:

:fencing:

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:ROTFLMAO:

I was talking to dh about carseat board stuff the other day and he said "So, what carseat religion are you? Because it sounds just like the debates we have on my christian-issues boards."

Apparently, my carseat religion is the one that prefers locking latchplates!

Oh yeah... *wrenches thread back on topic*

I have a friend who is a new car sales person, and she said they are never taught anything whatsoever about carseats in the cars they sell! This just amazes me - what a huge thing to over look! Imagine how much more effective those sales people would be if they had at least a basic understanding of what safety features their cars had for kids.

Hm... I wonder if I could get the local dealerships to pay me & Gypsy to come do a brief demo for them...

Defrost said:

:
Apparently, my carseat religion is the one that prefers locking latchplates!

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Mine too! You never have to deal with tilting seats! Although, the belts in the 3rd row of my van have locking latchplates and switchable retractors--go figure!

My religion says your religion is wrong! Wrong wrong wrong! Neener.

Defrost said:

Hm... I wonder if I could get the local dealerships to pay me & Gypsy to come do a brief demo for them...

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Good idea. I've had run-ins with similarly uninformed sales persons while vehicle shopping. This includes a Saturn sales consultant who thought the '03 Vue's cargo anchors on the cargo floor were the top tether anchors, when the top tether anchors were plainly visible on the rear seatback. I'm glad the OP was able to get the manual out and sort it all out, and educate some of the sales staff in the process. :thumbsup: I think VW dealers had or have a program where employees can become certified techs, and I wish this was more widespread at dealerships in general.

Went to Toyota today to test drive the Sienna. I installed my seats and yes this time I was prepared and knew how to tighten and lock. Anyway, I tethered the Regent and the saleman said he wanted to watch because he has never tethered before. I showed him where the tether points were (he didn't know) and how to tether a FF seat. He asked what the thether was for and I explained it to him and what it does in a crash. He was impressed. He has a 3 and 2 yr old and admitted he has never used tether. He thanked me for showing him.



Oh, I chose to Ody. Barely.

Congrats, and good job showing the salespersons about their products! Maybe we should all go vehicle shopping/test driving, with the ulterior motive of informing salespersons about the child restraint related features of their products.