Older minivan recommendations?

We're shopping for a new-to-us vehicle. Have a small budget right now (just out of grad school and no job nailed down yet).

DD is 6 and in a Britax MA. Expecting to upgrade her shortly, but waiting to see what fits best in the new vehicle. DS1 is nearly 4 and in a Scenera. He'll go to DD's MA once she upgrades and the Scenera will be a spare seat. DS2 is 14 months and in a MA.

We've been looking at late 1990's Japanese mini-vans - they're closest to what we'd like to pay - under $4000. But today we looked at a nice 2001 Honda Odyssey for about $6000, and DH sounded impressed. Less stuff that will need fixing soon, and lots of good features.

We generally prefer Japanese makes. With no job yet, and definitely planning for only one income (we're PARENTS, right?), I'm just wanting to hold down the costs as much as possible. I suppose up to $10,000 is OK... We like to cut gas costs as possible and have a safe vehicle...

How much better is it to get a vehicle with LATCH? DH and I are usually pretty careful to get a good seat install each time... I'm thinking of a top tether in case we get a Regent, but... What else should I be considering?

We've always driven older vehicles. I have to say, from the standpoint of repairs, imports are more expensive by far. We were at the part store getting a new water pump for my GM sedan a while back when a fairly new Toyota pulls up needing the same thing - a water pump. Ours was less than $30. His was nearly $100. For a WATER PUMP. Crazy. My sister had several Hondas and her Hondas always needed expensive parts. My GM vehicles rarely need anything, and then the parts are 1/3 the price for essetially the same thing.

My Suburban is one of the cheapest vehicles on the road for parts (including rebuilding the engine should it ever need it), and it will literally go forever. It's a '93 and I will easily get another 80k miles out of it before we need a major repair.


LATCH is a convience, not a safety feature. Top tethers are a safety feature.

skaterbabscpst said:

We've always driven older vehicles. I have to say, from the standpoint of repairs, imports are more expensive by far.

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Well, we've only driven imports so far, and basically have had high-mileage vehicles that needed no major repairs. I don't think DH and I will be convinced easily to change to American makes. Of course, most Japanese makes are actually MADE in the USA....

skaterbabscpst said:

LATCH is a convience, not a safety feature. Top tethers are a safety feature.

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Isn't the top tether a part of LATCH? How do I know what cars come with them? From some little bit of reading around I've done, it seems like it's not a very good idea to try to retrofit a vehicle with a tether -- is that right?

I recently bought a 1999 Ford Windstar, and in my quest my criteria were: safety, carseat compatibility and comfort. I didn't particularly want a minivan because of gas mileage and sheer size/handling, but dh really wants to stick with a van, so yeah, that's what we got.

Basically, if you're looking at late nineties models, I'd only look at the Ford Windstar, Honda Odyssey and Toyota Sienna. The 2001 Odyssey for $6000 is a great deal, I'd jump on that, personally. I had to go with a Windstar because my budget was 5K and all the Honda/Toyota minivans "new enough" for us were considerably more than 5K. Overall I'm really happy with the Windstar, though I want to downsize since we only have one child and gas prices just keep going up. Dh wants to keep the van because we can transport people when necessary and we can camp in the van (H is scared of tent camping ).

momefarley said:

Isn't the top tether a part of LATCH? How do I know what cars come with them? From some little bit of reading around I've done, it seems like it's not a very good idea to try to retrofit a vehicle with a tether -- is that right?

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Technically, the term "LATCH" refers to both the lower anchors and the top tether anchors, but in general use it has come to refer only to the lower anchors, simply because the top tether can be used with either the seatbelt or the lower anchors. It's confusing, I know. What she meant was that not having lower anchors doesn't make the seat unuseable for carseats, while not having top tether anchors does (for FF carseats).

Retrofitting top tethers is safe and generally fairly easy in vehicles that allow it. The problem is that they cannot be retrofitted in vehicles (like minivans) that already have top tether anchors in other seating locations.

So, for example, if you need to tether four carseats, but your minivan only has three top-tether anchors, you're pretty much out of luck.

Sorry, I meant to answer the LATCH question, too. Debbie covered it pretty well. LATCH=Lower Anchors and Tethers for CHildren. It is a system comprised of lower anchors (usually located in the vehicle seat bight/crack where the vehicle seatback meets the seat bottom) that hook to the lower portion of the carseat and top tether anchors, which are located on vehicle seatbacks, in cargo areas or in rear window decks that hook to the top of the carseat shell.

Carseats in the US only have to pass testing with a lapbelt install. Top tethering is an additional safety measure in the US, but not required like in some other countries (though it definitely increases the safety of any forward-facing carseat). The only seats in the US to require a top tether are the Britax Regent and Safeguard Go. It is recommended on other seats for best practice, but it is not required. I would choose to tether an older, heavier harnessed child over a younger, lighter-weight child if I had to choose only one to tether.

Vehicles that have NO tether anchors (i.e. older than 2000/2001, generally; Ford is one manufacturer that I know included tether anchors sooner in some models, but I don't think they are the only one) can almost always have them added later. Sometimes manufacturers will do it for free (sometimes with some prodding, sometimes without ), sometimes they have rules that require charges (Mazda wanted over $200 to do one anchor in my old MPV ). Sometimes adding tether anchors can be a do-it-yourself job after ordering the (usually cheap) parts.

Newer vehicles, new enough to already come factory-equipped with tether anchors, usually cannot have more tether anchors added. So, what you see is what you get. If the vehicle came with three anchors, you can only safely tether three forward-facing seats. That's one reason I really love my Windstar, it has tether anchors in every single rear seating position, AND one on the front passenger seat.

Not having lower anchors (meaning, not buying something new enough to have the entire LATCH system) isn't a dealbreaker in my opinion. A seatbelted install is just as safe as a lower anchored install. LATCH was only designed to be easier for parents to deal with, not any safer. Of course an easy install usually means it's done correctly, therefore safer than an incorrectly installed seat, but the point is that a seatbelted carseat can be just as safe, provided it's done correctly. Sometimes the seatbelt install is actually easier than the LATCH install!

Defrost said:

Technically, the term "LATCH" refers to both the lower anchors and the top tether anchors, but in general use it has come to refer only to the lower anchors, simply because the top tether can be used with either the seatbelt or the lower anchors. It's confusing, I know. What she meant was that not having lower anchors doesn't make the seat unuseable for carseats, while not having top tether anchors does (for FF carseats).

Retrofitting top tethers is safe and generally fairly easy in vehicles that allow it. The problem is that they cannot be retrofitted in vehicles (like minivans) that already have top tether anchors in other seating locations.

So, for example, if you need to tether four carseats, but your minivan only has three top-tether anchors, you're pretty much out of luck.

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I can understand using a top tether and a seat belt. We've had Britax for 5 years now. But I've never put my kids in car that had LATCH or a top tether. Does that mean I can't put FF car seats in them?? Or are you mainly referring to seats like the Regent?

Thanks, Jenny (scatterbunny) for the detailed explanation. That really clarifies.

What's the best way to go about getting a top tether for an older car? Manufacturer or any auto parts/mechanic or online place??

Many times dealerships or auto parts stores don't know what you're talking about when you ask about a top tether anchor retrofit kit, so in my experience your best bet is to post here with the vehicle year, make and model and one of the technicians with a current LATCH manual can look up the part information for you. Most of the time the manual will give us the part number, which makes it much easier for the dealership/part store to find what you need. Usually they're identified by a random number, along with a stupid label like, "bracket sub-assembly". It's no wonder when parents call asking for a tether anchor to be installed, most dealerships and mechanics are clueless.

momefarley said:

I can understand using a top tether and a seat belt. We've had Britax for 5 years now. But I've never put my kids in car that had LATCH or a top tether. Does that mean I can't put FF car seats in them?? Or are you mainly referring to seats like the Regent?

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Sorry, I should have been more clear. I think Scatterbunny clarified it, though. I was thinking more along the lines of "If I'm choosing a vehicle," personally I'd pick one with TAs or the ability to add them. As in, if it came down to a choice between an older vehicle that had 4+ TAs, or a newer one that only had 3, I'd pick the older one.

If I already had a vehicle without TAs and I couldn't add more, I'd still use it and install seats in it - it would be acceptable and legal - but if we're talking about choosing a vehicle, I'd have the TAs at the top of my priority list.