Opinions on rf-ing tether

Chex · Dec 6, 2007

Hi!

I've just been doing a bit of reading about rf-ing tethers and I wondered what other peoples' opinions/experiences were. I read that Compass is pretty defensive about not using a rf-ing tether because they feel that the ride-down (which I don't think is affected by the tether, right?) and the rebound helps protect the baby by having the impact on the seat rather than the baby. (I think I'm understanding their reasoning, please correct me if I'm not). And yet Britax and Sunshine Kids obviously feel like the rf-ing tether is a benefit. I'm just wondering if there is any hard evidence supporting either view.

-Ann

amyg530 · Dec 6, 2007

i bought a britax for the RF tether but i drive a truck where the glass is right at the back and i wanted the tether so that his head wouldnt rebound into the glass

Chameleon · Dec 6, 2007

I'm one who believes a RF Tether doesn't matter at all. Yes it's an added benefit, but how much of a benefit? I tend to think not much at all. Maybe .5%-Don't quote me I'm just spouting numbers. That's just me. I think any seat that Rear Faces and is used properly is an ok seat. But I judge my seats on comfort alone. LOL So you won't find me purchasing a Scenara. However, I would buy an EFTA even though it doesn't have a RF Tether. I own 2 FPSVD and they don't have RF Tethers. I would love the new Compass True Fit and that doesn't have a RF Tether ~ it looks so comfortable. The Recaros do not have RF Tethers. My point is that these seats are VERY safe rear facing and do not have RF Tethers.

momof2kiddos · Dec 6, 2007

amyg530 said:
i bought a britax for the RF tether but i drive a truck where the glass is right at the back and i wanted the tether so that his head wouldnt rebound into the glass

Your Boys are so cute

momof2kiddos · Dec 6, 2007

For your question,I like the RF teether because instead of having to use rolled up towels to make the perfect recline,I just pull the teether.Plus the carseat just seems more secure in the car *to me*.

Melizerd · Dec 6, 2007

I chose the Britax because I felt like the tether was important. How important? I don't know it's just a gut feeling.

natysr · Dec 6, 2007

Like Chameleon, I think it may add some benefit...how much? Don't know exactly. I think it may be more beneficial in side impact or rear end collisions.

I would not be opposed to using an ETA without a tether though.

Honestly, I was initially misinformed about RF tethering in general. I didn't quite understand the direction for the d-ring etc., I though you needed a dedicated RF tether point, or you had to tether overhead. So, when I had a roundabout, it was never tethered. We got into a bad accident where I t-boned a pick up truck at about 65ish miles per hour. Jordan was 22 months old and RF in an untethered roundabout, and was perfectly fine.

Bottom line, my decision to buy britax was not strickly based on RF tethering, but I feel it is an added bonus.

CDNTech · Dec 6, 2007

RF tethers are beneficial in side impact collisions (which is probably why it mattered little in the pp's frontal collision).

While I think they are important and prefer to have one, that is not going to stop me buying/recommending something like the EFTA/FPSVD/Trufit if that seat suits the situation/vehicle/budget better.

Suzibeck · Dec 6, 2007

I prefer to rf tether, but not having one isn't a deal breaker for me. If the True Fit gets good reviews, that will be our next seat. At first it would be used by my now ff 5 yo but it would likely get used rf for our new baby at some point as our MA will expire when the baby is 2. I hope baby can rf longer than that. I know the Swedish seats tether differently than our seats do and I think it is possible that the high top tether may not be as safe in some accidents. There just isn't enough research out there to confirm the safety of rf tether. I do think Britax would not allow use if there was a glaring problem however.

amy919 · Dec 6, 2007

As someone else mentioned, the RF tether may be beneficial for side impact collisions and this was my thinking as well. Although my car has pretty good safety ratings, we do not have side curtain air bags and my children both ride outboard in captain's chairs, so for me, it was important.

I really don't know for sure how much of an added benefit it is, but I do like it and "feel" it's more secure. In Matt's car, I use a RF seat without a tether and am comfortable with it, even though she is outboard in his car as well. His car's safety ratings are better than mine and I feel that she is equally safe for the few times she's actually in his car.

southpawboston · Dec 6, 2007

my non-tech but engineer's logic is that there are arguments pro and con, and it really depends on the particular seat and vehicle, and also how the seat fits into a particular vehicle. not all seats will rebound the same without an RF tether. some will rebound more, some less. and the rebound may be more beneficial in some cars than in others, and could even be more of a liability in some cars than in others. i think that just because some carseats are RF tetherable, it doesn't mean that your child is more protected overall. without clear and hard data in every type of crash scenario, we just don't know. personally, i like the idea of an RF tether since it does make the carseat less mobile, overall, but again, i don't have hard data to back up the benefits of that.

however, i also like the idea of an RF "foot" which prevents forward rotation. we don't have these in the US but they are common in europe. i kind of feel that without an RF foot, having an RF tether may not help much in preventing a rebound shock in a frontal collision. reason being, that the seat will rotate forward in a collision due to vehicle seat compression, causing the RF tether to gather slack, then upon rebound, rather than allowing a "smooth" rebound path, the rebound will come to an abrupt stop as the RF tether becomes taut again. does that make sense?

CDNTech · Dec 6, 2007

southpawboston said:
my non-tech but engineer's logic is that there are arguments pro and con, and it really depends on the particular seat and vehicle, and also how the seat fits into a particular vehicle. not all seats will rebound the same without an RF tether. some will rebound more, some less. and the rebound may be more beneficial in some cars than in others, and could even be more of a liability in some cars than in others. i think that just because some carseats are RF tetherable, it doesn't mean that your child is more protected overall. without clear and hard data in every type of crash scenario, we just don't know. personally, i like the idea of an RF tether since it does make the carseat less mobile, overall, but again, i don't have hard data to back up the benefits of that.

however, i also like the idea of an RF "foot" which prevents forward rotation. we don't have these in the US but they are common in europe. i kind of feel that without an RF foot, having an RF tether may not help much in preventing a rebound shock in a frontal collision. reason being, that the seat will rotate forward in a collision due to vehicle seat compression, causing the RF tether to gather slack, then upon rebound, rather than allowing a "smooth" rebound path, the rebound will come to an abrupt stop as the RF tether becomes taut again. does that make sense?

Whether it comes to an abrupt stop by the tether OR the backseat, it is coming to an abrupt stop. I can't find it now, but there was a study that came out awhile ago showing that a carseat more closely coupled to the vehicle will actually provide better ride down for the child.

Maybe someone more search saavy will come along and post it for me.

Victorious4 · Dec 6, 2007

aidensmom02 said:
Whether it comes to an abrupt stop by the tether OR the backseat, it is coming to an abrupt stop. I can't find it now, but there was a study that came out awhile ago showing that a carseat more closely coupled to the vehicle will actually provide better ride down for the child.

I don't think I have this study, but I do remember 1 of the techs who won an award at Lifesavers 2007 did tell me about this study & he feels very strongly that RF tethers are indeed prefered whenever the seat allows it + there is acceptable D-ring placement: this is also what the new curriculum update workshop at our regional NHTSA conference stressed.... Of course the "safest" seat is any that is always used correctly, regardless of optional fancy features & RF is safer than FF even without the tether :twocents:

southpawboston · Dec 6, 2007

aidensmom02 said:
Whether it comes to an abrupt stop by the tether OR the backseat, it is coming to an abrupt stop. I can't find it now, but there was a study that came out awhile ago showing that a carseat more closely coupled to the vehicle will actually provide better ride down for the child.

i disagree that the abruptness of rebound +/- RF tether will necessarily be the same. with the tether, the rebound distance is short, and it stops abruptly, by virtue of a strong strap, hopefully attached to a rigid support

. without the tether, the rebound distance will be longer, and may come to a more gradual stop as the rotation nears the vehicle seat back. and if it does make it all the way to the vehicle seatback, it will be met by a soft cushion.

as for the argument about the correlation between the close coupling of the carseat to the vehicle, i believe that 100%. hence my RF foot + tether argument: prevent forward rotation *completely*, AND prevent rearward rotation.

on the other hand, so many techs claim that the ride-down caused by the stretching of a LATCH belt (or vehicle seatbelt) is more beneficial than having the carseat more closely coupled (via LATCH + belt). while i agree that you can't have both LATCH + seatbelt, i just can't come around to the ride-down argument as a plausible reason not to do that, given the closely-coupled theory. (and what about rigid LATCH??? doesn't that also support the closely-coupled theory???)

Victorious4 · Dec 6, 2007

I think we're hijacking the thread

southpawboston said:
on the other hand, so many techs claim that the ride-down caused by the stretching of a LATCH belt (or vehicle seatbelt) is more beneficial than having the carseat more closely coupled (via LATCH + belt). while i agree that you can't have both LATCH + seatbelt, i just can't come around to the ride-down argument as a plausible reason not to do that, given the closely-coupled theory. (and what about rigid LATCH??? doesn't that also support the closely-coupled theory???)

Ride-down has never been my argument against LATCH + seatbelt (both together) & don't recall it being the argument of anyone else either

My argument has always simply been that it is not tested that way & could potentially put stress on the seat in a way that isn't intended -- that we know 1 method *or* the other does keep kids very safe so we have no reason to go against the manual when either method on its own works.... Furthermore, that if the carseat doesn't fit the vehicle as per the manual then it's simply a matter of incompatability & there is likely a different option that can be used correctly so that the child is not essentially a rea life crash test dummy.

joolsplus3 · Dec 6, 2007

Yeah, seats need more feets... support and anti-rebound..
Here's what a swedish rf tethered britax looks like... http://www.esnips.com/doc/f7c18149-9f4a-4e32-b0be-e366982367fc/swedish
I think it 'looks' dramatic, but it's really not. There's a lot less movement than in an untethered seat, overall. I wish we could see a side impact crash tethered versus un, I bet it would be dramatically different.

ThreeBeans · Dec 6, 2007

Chameleon said:
I'm one who believes a RF Tether doesn't matter at all.

No wonder you got so cranky with me the other day; you didn't like my opinion

Obviously, I disagree. The absence of a RF tether is a deal-breaker for ME for a full-time seat. I think 'cocooning' is merely an effect of the old design, and not really a safety feature. I would rather see the baby ride down the force of the impact with the stretch of the belts, not smash around all over the place.

thepeach80 · Dec 6, 2007

ThreeBeans said:
The absence of a RF tether is a deal-breaker for ME for a full-time seat. I think 'cocooning' is merely an effect of the old design, and not really a safety feature. I would rather see the baby ride down the force of the impact with the stretch of the belts, not smash around all over the place.

I agree. I will only have rfing tethered seats for a rfing child's full time seat (I do use a Scenera rfing when needed as rfing untethered is still safer than ffing w/ tether).

I didn't think it was important enough to have a Companion for an infant seat though.

Chex · Dec 6, 2007

joolsplus3 said:
Yeah, seats need more feets... support and anti-rebound..
Here's what a swedish rf tethered britax looks like... http://www.esnips.com/doc/f7c18149-9f4a-4e32-b0be-e366982367fc/swedish
I think it 'looks' dramatic, but it's really not. There's a lot less movement than in an untethered seat, overall. I wish we could see a side impact crash tethered versus un, I bet it would be dramatically different.

When I first watched that video, it did look dramatic compared to the other rear-facing crash test I saw, so I looked up that one again and realized something. The dummie's head is taped to the carseat in this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K62Ea8Fs4ng&feature=related

So it's not an accurate account of what happens to the child's body and if it weren't taped, it would probably look more like the Swedish video. And like you said, I think it looks more dramatic than it actually is.

-Ann

Chameleon · Dec 6, 2007

So I just watched the video on the Swedish RF Tether and the child's head and neck come out of the seat because of the tether right. Now if it wasn't tethered the child simply cocoons with the seat and stays put in the shell and doesn't come out at all. There isn't a forward movement of the head and neck right? Or am I wrong?

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