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  1. #1
    CPS Technician shauburg's Avatar
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    LATCH Install - Stowing Seat Belt Through Belt Path

    I will be installing DS's Radian RF in a 2008 Jeep Patriot, likely using LATCH.

    The Radian manual says:
    "Only secure this child restraint with the vehicle’s lower universal anchorage system if available or with vehicle seat belt" - NOT both (I understand why).

    The vehicle manual says:
    "When using the LATCH attaching system to install a child restraint, please ensure that all seat belts not being used for occupant restraints are stowed and out of reach of children.
    - It is recommended that before installing the child restraint, buckle the seat belt so the seat belt is tucked behind the child restraint and out of reach.
    - If the buckled seat belt interferes with the child restraint installation, instead of tucking the seat belt behind the child restraint, route the seat belt through the child restraint belt path and then buckle it."


    So my question is - If I have to the do the second one and route the seat belt through the belt path and buckle it, is that just as bad as if I actually tried to "install" it with both LATCH and the seat belt? Would I then be going against the Radian's instructions?
    Canadian CRST & Mommy to:
    DD - 19 Months & 22 lb RF - Radian Premier & True Fit
    DS - 4.5 Years & ~48lb FF - Frontier XT x 2

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  3. #2
    Admin - CPS Technician joolsplus3's Avatar
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    Re: LATCH Install - Stowing Seat Belt Through Belt Path

    Sounds that way, but no...because the seatbelt would be loose and unlikely to interfere with the LATCH install. It's when you do both installs tightly that the problems supposedly arise (possible increased risk of chest injury in an FF child because there's less 'ride down time' when both belts are tight, is the best reason I've heard...not sure if it's true, but I think that's why they say don't use both).
    Julie
    CPST since 2003, pu"R"ple since 2008, three kids growing too fast since 1997, 1999 and 2006

    Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good

  4. #3
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    Re: LATCH Install - Stowing Seat Belt Through Belt Path

    Quote Originally Posted by joolsplus3 View Post
    Sounds that way, but no...because the seatbelt would be loose and unlikely to interfere with the LATCH install.
    hmm... are you sure? that would mean that we can essentially route the seatbelt through the belt path and have a psuedo-double installation... that doesn't seem acceptable, especially when you consider that the LATCH install will have the carseat tightly in place, and the tension on the seatbelt will cause it to become snug all by itself. so you do have essentially a double-install.
    Two girls, 7 and 6. Trek Mountain, Specialized Hotrock, Soma Buena Vista, Bike Friday tandem, and multiple other bikes. Oh, and a Mazda5.

  5. #4
    Admin - CPS Technician joolsplus3's Avatar
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    Re: LATCH Install - Stowing Seat Belt Through Belt Path

    I just don't know...I just don't know...
    Julie
    CPST since 2003, pu"R"ple since 2008, three kids growing too fast since 1997, 1999 and 2006

    Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good

  6. #5
    Moderator - CPST Instructor snowbird25ca's Avatar
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    Re: LATCH Install - Stowing Seat Belt Through Belt Path

    I know this has been discussed before & I don't remember what the concensus was.

    The reason the vehicle manual is telling you to do that is so that little hands don't get into the belt, play with it, end up locking the belt by pulling it all the way out and then get caught or choke when the belt starts going back into the retractor.

    I'm not comfortable routing seatbelts through the belt path like that, even loosely. I would buckle the seatbelt before installing the carseat and see if you can engage the retractor so it stays locked with it just buckled. If not, and it very well may not, I'd just leave the belt unbuckled because a loose belt buckled in front of the seat is more likely to draw a kid's attention to it.

    I think what's most important to keep in mind is that the car manufacturer is telling you to do it for reasons of safety if a child played with the seatbelt, while the car seat manufacturer is telling you not to do it in order to make sure that the car seat is installed properly. Mitigate the risks of the seatbelt being played with if possible by buckling before installation (but not through the belt path, just so that it's against the vehicle seatback,) and locking the belt, and then install the carseat according to manufacturers directions.

    From the way I look at it, a direction that comes from the vehicle manufacturer to prevent liability from an accidental incident if a child plays with a seatbelt, is less important than following the carseat manual. I would never go against the carseat manual in an instance like this. Now if both directions were being given for safety of installation reasons, that would be a different story and I'd be talking to the manufacturers to decide what to do - especially since no carseat manual allows simultaneous installation with both LATCH and seatbelt.
    Trudy - Canadian CPSAC certified CRST Instructor-Trainer and mommy to:
    Janeen - 17 yrs and learning to drive!
    Jillian - 11 yrs, 80'ish lbs, 5-stepping in each car. :O
    Jonas - 8yrs, 65lbs, Riding in an Oobr in each car.
    Both safely riding in either a 2007 Outlook or a 2015 Subaru Legacy depending on the day.


  7. #6
    Moderator - CPST Instructor snowbird25ca's Avatar
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    Re: LATCH Install - Stowing Seat Belt Through Belt Path

    Jools - has this ever been discussed on the CPSP List? It might be a good question to post on there.
    Trudy - Canadian CPSAC certified CRST Instructor-Trainer and mommy to:
    Janeen - 17 yrs and learning to drive!
    Jillian - 11 yrs, 80'ish lbs, 5-stepping in each car. :O
    Jonas - 8yrs, 65lbs, Riding in an Oobr in each car.
    Both safely riding in either a 2007 Outlook or a 2015 Subaru Legacy depending on the day.


  8. #7
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    Re: LATCH Install - Stowing Seat Belt Through Belt Path

    what i do is store the seatbelt *behind* the vehicle seat back. it's literally locked behind the fold-down rear seat. this is only possible in sedans and wagons where the rear seat folds down.
    Two girls, 7 and 6. Trek Mountain, Specialized Hotrock, Soma Buena Vista, Bike Friday tandem, and multiple other bikes. Oh, and a Mazda5.

  9. #8
    Moderator - CPST Instructor snowbird25ca's Avatar
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    Re: LATCH Install - Stowing Seat Belt Through Belt Path

    Quote Originally Posted by southpawboston View Post
    what i do is store the seatbelt *behind* the vehicle seat back. it's literally locked behind the fold-down rear seat. this is only possible in sedans and wagons where the rear seat folds down.
    That's a really good idea.
    Trudy - Canadian CPSAC certified CRST Instructor-Trainer and mommy to:
    Janeen - 17 yrs and learning to drive!
    Jillian - 11 yrs, 80'ish lbs, 5-stepping in each car. :O
    Jonas - 8yrs, 65lbs, Riding in an Oobr in each car.
    Both safely riding in either a 2007 Outlook or a 2015 Subaru Legacy depending on the day.


  10. #9
    CPS Technician shauburg's Avatar
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    Re: LATCH Install - Stowing Seat Belt Through Belt Path

    Thanks everyone. I agree that since the car seat manual says you must not use both LATCH & seat belt (to ensure the car seat is installed correctly) and the vehicle manual only recommends stowing the seat belt in the belt path, that I should not do it.

    If I even end up being able to use LATCH to install the seat, I will find some other way to secure the seat belt. The shoulder part of the rear centre seat belt does have a mini-latch & buckle, which allows the shoulder belt to detach from the seat bight when the seat is folded. I should probably be able to use this feature to ensure the belt is kept away from curious little hands. Although if the harness on his car seat is done up properly, I don't see how he'd be able to reach it anyway!
    Canadian CRST & Mommy to:
    DD - 19 Months & 22 lb RF - Radian Premier & True Fit
    DS - 4.5 Years & ~48lb FF - Frontier XT x 2

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