Short Strapped Radian

CDNTech

Senior Community Member
After speaking with SKJP, it seems like the new standards set in place for returning a short strap Radian will indeed remain there.

"Car seat return must follow all procedures below:

- Return must be sent ‘Freight Paid’. ‘Freight collect’ returns will be refused.
- Return must be sent by UPS, Fed Ex etc… with delivery verification
- Return must be packaged in a suitable manner to avoid damage in transit
- Car seat must include all the original components and cover
- Car seat must have the serial number sticker affixed and in legible
condition clearly showing Model #, Date of mfg and serial number
- Car seat must be in usable condition with no signs of abuse or any damage
rendering it unusable
- Return must include copy of signed and properly completed RA form 48A
- Return must include original purchase receipt clearly showing name of
purchaser, date of purchase, name of seller, and price paid.

Important: Any returned car seat not meeting all of the above criteria will not be processed and will not be sent back."


While I don't totally agree with all of the procedures set in place, I absolutely see their point.

The only point that is negotiable is the name of the purchaser. If it is not on your receipt (cash/debit transaction) they will work around this for you... phone to verify before returning product. I suggest you always get name of person you spoke with and date/time of call.

Customers wishing to avoid the hassle/expense of trying to exchange a short strap seat should definitely avoid getting one.

Those that purchase a short strap seat should do it with the realization that they will need to jump through the hoops to exchange it. ALL returned seats will be destroyed; no discussion, no deviation.

Those that are upset at having to pay shipping to return this product should probably take into account that you just bought a Radian for $99... add in the shipping to replace it and the cost is nowhere near the $229 it costs to buy a new DOM Radian with the 65lbs limit, which is what you will get in exchange. Just my :twocents:

SKJP freely admits that they made some "rookie errors" with their customer service. It was easier and more cost effective to just send out a new seat to the small group of people that complained about the short straps in the beginning. With Canadian Tire's sale, where I suspect the majority of the short strapped seats are located, they can no longer do this and have had to put procedures in place.
 
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Jewels

Senior Community Member
Important: Any returned car seat not meeting all of the above criteria will not be processed and will not be sent back."


While I don't totally agree with all of the procedures set in place, I absolutely see their point.

With Canadian Tire's sale, where I suspect the majority of the short strapped seats are located, they can no longer do this and have had to put procedures in place.

I don't agree with them not sending back any seats that don't meet the criteria . . . in other words they are pretty much stealing your seat and then the purchaser is out the $99 or $229 depending on where they bought it :rolleyes:

Yes, I agree with some of their procedures they've set in place and see their point but what does it matter what you paid for the seat? CT is the one that will be losing out cost wise not SKJP.
 

supermommyof2

New member
It's frustrating enough that there's any cost to the customer, but how can they expect people to go without carseats???

I can understand that they want the s-s ones back, as long as they aren't reselling them, that would be fine with me, but can't they figure out some way so that customers don't have to be without a seat? Or are they willing to take responsibility for the kids riding without carseats while they take who-knows-how-long to process the returns?
 

Jewels

Senior Community Member
It's frustrating enough that there's any cost to the customer, but how can they expect people to go without carseats???



Britax used to do this as well, sending the seat back and having to find a replacement while you wait (not paying the shipping). I think that their policies have now changed though.
 

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
The other piece in this is what about the parents who bought a seat over a year ago, AND paid $199 for it and will just one of these days discover they have a short strap seat. They'll be past the year they can return at CT, they will have paid almost the same price as a baby boutique, and if they send their seat in for replacement, they will have ended up paying MORE than what it would've cost had they purchased the seat at a boutique back then. But chances are they bought it at CT to save that $30 - because they couldn't afford that extra $30.

This has absolutely nothing to do with how much a seat cost and parents should be able to afford to pay for the shipping because of the deal they got. Many affected parents won't have gotten this deal. They shouldn't be the ones forced to pay to right the company's manufacturing screw up. And it was a screw up! For them to pretend otherwise is outright lying.

I wouldn't take that the company line won't ever change as fact. I'm guessing TC will get involved through some channel and they might be able to force their hand in the matter. A defect is a defect is a defect and I don't give a rip how much somebody paid for a seat. That doesn't make it ok to have to pay to ship it back & get it replaced. The customer should never ever have to pay to fix a company's mistake.

Considering that this seat is the only seat on the CDN market that will fit some kids who legally still have to be harnessed, it means that some parents are going to have no choice but to BOOSTER their kids while waiting for the whole return process - one that is likely to leave them without a seat for 3wks at the very least. How is that fair to the parents? Why not do like Britax? Take a credit card # and place a hold, ship the new seat & include a prepaid label for the old seat, then remove the hold when the old seat is returned.

Not all parents have money to just buy an extra seat (assuming they could even find one that has long straps at their CT,) to use until the replacement arrives. Telling parents to just return their seat to CT and buy a different one may mean many parents not being able to buy another seat because they all have short straps - or the store is already sold out. It's the kids and parents that are getting the short end of the stick.

At this point, I don't care if somebody went to the CT warehouse, searched for every single Aug DOM and bought them himself, then sent them in for replacement and resold the 65lb seats for close to retail. I don't care, because at least then the short strapped seats would be gone, and it's the company that screwed up. It doesn't matter how someone buys a short strapped seat, or even how many they happen to have. The manufacturer screwed it up in the first place, and if they don't want to be dealing with this then they should just be pulling the stock & issuing a recall & reimbursing CT for the cost of the seats. If there's such a huge loss happening, why don't they just buy all of CT's stock from them?

There are other options out there without screwing parents and leaving them without a seat in the process. :whistle:
 

CDNTech

Senior Community Member
I don't agree with them not sending back any seats that don't meet the criteria . . . in other words they are pretty much stealing your seat and then the purchaser is out the $99 or $229 depending on where they bought it :rolleyes:

Yes, I agree with some of their procedures they've set in place and see their point but what does it matter what you paid for the seat? CT is the one that will be losing out cost wise not SKJP.

Knowing their customer service in the past, I *highly* doubt that you will not get a seat sent back to you.

The majority of people that bought a short strap seat for $199 at CT got their's replaced for free. It's only been since the sale went on at CT that the new policy went into effect.

I have not heard of anyone purchasing a short strap Radian for $229... those are generally all newer stock that have the 65lbs limit.

The point about the price is that people are rushing to purchase a $99 Radian at CT that only goes to 48lbs... from what I've been reading, a lot of them either are seeking out a short strapped seat to get a replacement 65lbs one or are planning on using the 48lbs one up to 65lbs since they've been told it's the same seat.

I'm merely pointing out the fact that if they go purchase the $229 seat, they will get a new DOM AND the 65lbs limit with *no* hassle.

Otherwise they can purchase the short strap seat for $99, pay the shipping and end up with a new DOM AND 65lb seat for hassle, but cheaper in the end.

I do *not* feel bad in any way, shape or form for the people that are purchasing the short strapped seat knowing this. They are merely looking for a deal, something most of us do.

I do feel bad for the people that have purchased the seat and have been using it for a year just to find out that their child no longer fits... but again, that happens to a lot of us... ever hear of Cosco/Safety 1st/Eddie Bauer 3 in 1 seats? ;) Or for that matter my skinny, tall child who has outgrown multiple seats by height while being nowhere near the weight limit? It's the same thing... I just think this is being blown out of proportion because of the change in the way they are handling it. Yes, it sucks for some people, but that's life, kwim?
 

supermommyof2

New member
:yeahthat: very well put, Trudy! I have a difficult time putting my feelings into words, but you do is so well:)

My sister and BIL are in that situation, they just bought 2 Radians on sale, they're short on money, baby #4 was due 2 days ago, and they're moving into their first house. Oh yeah, they need to replace their car with a van, too:dizzy:. They have to drive the 2 oldest to school, so being w/out seats and having to buy spares in the meantime isn't an option. Hopefully they didn't get s-s ones, I'm just emailed them pics and am anxiously waiting for the final word.
 

CDNTech

Senior Community Member
My sister and BIL are in that situation, they just bought 2 Radians on sale, they're short on money, baby #4 was due 2 days ago, and they're moving into their first house. Oh yeah, they need to replace their car with a van, too:dizzy:. They have to drive the 2 oldest to school, so being w/out seats and having to buy spares in the meantime isn't an option. Hopefully they didn't get s-s ones, I'm just emailed them pics and am anxiously waiting for the final word.

What seats were they using before they bought the Radians? Could they not use those seats while they get short strapped ones replaced if they have them? Or return them to CT and get ones that are not short strapped. For that matter, unless your child has a super long torso, there are other seats out there for around the $100 mark that would harness them and allow them the first year or so in booster mode as well. The best seat is the one that fits your child, your vehicle, and your budget.
 
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smurf

New member
The other piece in this is what about the parents who bought a seat over a year ago, AND paid $199 for it and will just one of these days discover they have a short strap seat. They'll be past the year they can return at CT, they will have paid almost the same price as a baby boutique, and if they send their seat in for replacement, they will have ended up paying MORE than what it would've cost had they purchased the seat at a boutique back then. But chances are they bought it at CT to save that $30 - because they couldn't afford that extra $30.



This has absolutely nothing to do with how much a seat cost and parents should be able to afford to pay for the shipping because of the deal they got. Many affected parents won't have gotten this deal. They shouldn't be the ones forced to pay to right the company's manufacturing screw up. And it was a screw up! For them to pretend otherwise is outright lying.

I wouldn't take that the company line won't ever change as fact. I'm guessing TC will get involved through some channel and they might be able to force their hand in the matter. A defect is a defect is a defect and I don't give a rip how much somebody paid for a seat. That doesn't make it ok to have to pay to ship it back & get it replaced. The customer should never ever have to pay to fix a company's mistake.

Considering that this seat is the only seat on the CDN market that will fit some kids who legally still have to be harnessed, it means that some parents are going to have no choice but to BOOSTER their kids while waiting for the whole return process - one that is likely to leave them without a seat for 3wks at the very least. How is that fair to the parents? Why not do like Britax? Take a credit card # and place a hold, ship the new seat & include a prepaid label for the old seat, then remove the hold when the old seat is returned.

Not all parents have money to just buy an extra seat (assuming they could even find one that has long straps at their CT,) to use until the replacement arrives. Telling parents to just return their seat to CT and buy a different one may mean many parents not being able to buy another seat because they all have short straps - or the store is already sold out. It's the kids and parents that are getting the short end of the stick.

At this point, I don't care if somebody went to the CT warehouse, searched for every single Aug DOM and bought them himself, then sent them in for replacement and resold the 65lb seats for close to retail. I don't care, because at least then the short strapped seats would be gone, and it's the company that screwed up. It doesn't matter how someone buys a short strapped seat, or even how many they happen to have. The manufacturer screwed it up in the first place, and if they don't want to be dealing with this then they should just be pulling the stock & issuing a recall & reimbursing CT for the cost of the seats. If there's such a huge loss happening, why don't they just buy all of CT's stock from them?

There are other options out there without screwing parents and leaving them without a seat in the process. :whistle:

Well, I don't like to quote + agree, but basically I, well, quote and agree.
You're described my situation exactly. I bought 2 Radians at CT online right when they hit the CND market (because I didn't think they'd be available anywhere else, this was back in Sept 2006). And now I'm stuck with at least one short strapped seat - the other seat seems fine so far.

I can't believe the company will not admit to selling defective seats. And now CT is clearing a whole bunch of defective seats!

I think a call to TC and BBB is necessary.

And, even if I were to send my seat to Vancouver via UPS (gee, how much is that going to cost?), what do I do in the meantime with my 3 year-old? Use a seat belt? :mad:
 

CDNTech

Senior Community Member
Well, I don't like to quote + agree, but basically I, well, quote and agree.
You're described my situation exactly. I bought 2 Radians at CT online right when they hit the CND market (because I didn't think they'd be available anywhere else, this was back in Sept 2006). And now I'm stuck with at least one short strapped seat - the other seat seems fine so far.

I can't believe the company will not admit to selling defective seats. And now CT is clearing a whole bunch of defective seats!

I think a call to TC and BBB is necessary.

And, even if I were to send my seat to Vancouver via UPS (gee, how much is that going to cost?), what do I do in the meantime with my 3 year-old? Use a seat belt? :mad:

I think using the spare Chase would be a better idea than the seatbelt... yeah, that was tongue in cheek. ;)
 

Jewels

Senior Community Member
You're described my situation exactly. I bought 2 Radians at CT online right when they hit the CND market (because I didn't think they'd be available anywhere else, this was back in Sept 2006). And now I'm stuck with at least one short strapped seat - the other seat seems fine so far.

I wonder if they see that you paid full price for the seat if they just might reimburse you the shipping :twocents: It really shouldn't matter what you paid but that is just a thought I had, I really don't know for sure but :whistle:
 

supermommyof2

New member
What seats were they using before they bought the Radians? Could they not use those seats while they get short strapped ones replaced if they have them?

They're replacing seats that shouldn't be used anymore. One a Touriva with the "notches" (we gave them this one last year, didn't know about the issues until a month ago, soooo thankfull we were never in a side-impact crash), another is expired (I'm pretty sure). They're several provinces away, so I'm not exactly sure on the sizes of the kids, but the oldest is 5 1/2 (really skinny) and the 4 yr old is similar in size to my boys, so the $99 Radian is the best option to get value for their $$ (esp with 2 younger ones and the 8-yr life of the Radian).
 

smurf

New member
I think using the spare Chase would be a better idea than the seatbelt... yeah, that was tongue in cheek. ;)

Hmmm, but the Chase is in DH's car... we both drive the kids to + from daycare daily.

*whine* I don't care about the stupid 65 lbs weight limit (my kids are tall and thin), I just want longer straps! And I want them to admit to making a mistake (stomp feet)!

I'm off to sulk now.
 

CDNTech

Senior Community Member
I know I sound like I'm against all of you here, but did anyone actually see my last point?

Not one single other carseat company will get all children (or even most of them) to the limits stated on a particular carseat.

Yet everyone here is jumping all over SKJP and not one person has mentioned going to TC or the BBB for those other seats. The 3 in 1's are good seats to pick on since they state they are the only seat you'll ever need... yet we all know that's not even close to the truth.

I realize having a short strapped Radian and the rules to get it replaced now are a complete pain in the butt, however, the seat is NOT unsafe with the short straps... it just won't fit your child to the limits of the seat, but then neither will 90% of the other seats sold on the Canadian market.

If you all are going to start jumping up and running to TC and BBB, then you had better be doing it for all seats... not just this one. There is *nothing* unsafe about it.

Does anyone besides me get this? :confused:
 

Jewels

Senior Community Member
Does anyone besides me get this? :confused:

Breathe :love:



Yes, I know what you mean but I think the difference here is that there was a mistake with a certain batch of seats. I don't blame SKJP for getting stricter about their new return policy but I also don't agree with their whole list. But you are right, there are many seats that children will outgrow before the limits of the seats are reached.
 

CDNTech

Senior Community Member
Breathe :love:



Yes, I know what you mean but I think the difference here is that there was a mistake with a certain batch of seats. I don't blame SKJP for getting stricter about their new return policy but I also don't agree with their whole list. But you are right, there are many seats that children will outgrow before the limits of the seats are reached.

I'm okay. :D I just don't understand all the hoopla about the short strapped seats.

We know that SKJP has got their stories mixed up in the past... so, if this is not just contained to 25 or 50 seats, than whose to say it wasn't done on purpose? If people are talking like it's 100 seats or more... that doesn't exactly seem like a mistake to me, especially seeing as they all went to CT.

I just don't understand the whole "this company has to fix this issue"... no one gets this upset about the 3 in 1's, yet they've been awful for *years*... I'm just saying :whistle:
 

Jewels

Senior Community Member
I wonder if the short straps seats have anything to do with the fact that CT apparently bought straight from China :rolleyes: :confused: Since it does seem that all the short strapped seats are from CT I wonder if PJM (since the box says PJM) sold the short strap seats for cheaper to CT to get them off their hands!?
 

supermommyof2

New member
I just don't understand the whole "this company has to fix this issue"... no one gets this upset about the 3 in 1's, yet they've been awful for *years*

I get what you're saying, but IMO, the harnesses not being long enough for the height of the slots is a different issue than seats that are just too short overall. If the harnesses isn't long enough to fit my child that is under the weight limits and highest harness slots of any CR, that's when I have a problem.
 

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
Not one single other carseat company will get all children (or even most of them) to the limits stated on a particular carseat.

BUT, Other seats aren't being outgrown because of strap length when a kids shoulders are an inch or more below the top slot. And, other companies haven't told owners it was a manufacturing mistake. And other companies don't have an isolated group of seats affected by the previously admitted "mistake".

One of the critera for outgrowing a seat isn't "when the straps no longer fit around your child." Parents are reasonable to expect that a seat will fit their child until the shoulders reach the slots. And let's not forget that with the shorter harness straps, even the 6yr old AMD in all likelihood wouldn't fit the straps. So they can't even say it was an intended design.

If it was an intended design, why do all the July DOM seats have the long harness? And then again all of September?

I did read your post, but I really think there's no way around SK being wrong about this. We all know that height limits are approximate, and that seats are almost always outgrown by height before the weight limit is reached, but outgrowing a seat by height shouldn't be happening because too short of straps were put on. And they knew the straps were too short, and only changed their story now when more and more of the short strapped seats started showing up. I just don't think this can fall into a similar category as other seats that are outgrown before stated limits - unless they put that extra set of slots there just for show. ;)

However, I do agree that the short strapped seats are 100% safe to use while the straps fit, and I don't see them being able to do a safety recall on them since they're safe.

But I think the BBB is an appropriate complaint to make - the company changed it's story and that does speak for the reliability and reputation of a company. Them making customers pay to fix their mistake - and it'll always fall into the mistake category since I was specifically told that they were mistakenly shipped with too short of harnesses and that a wrong batch of harnesses got put on these seats, is just wrong.

I have no worries about the safety of the harness since it has to meet standards all on it's own. But how does a company move from telling everyone a mistake has been made, to telling everyone it was a purposeful design? One that they apparently decided to put into place in the middle of production of seats with normal length straps. You can't claim a design change when prior seats had the normal length and only a few batches had the shorter length.

If they'd just pay to have the short strapped seats sent back to them, and issue an advisory to have parents check their seats for short straps, then it would all go away. If nothing else, I'd be very surprised if an information notice wasn't issued to have parents check their seats and contact PJM if they have an affected seat. Parents have the right to know that the seat they bought because the slots were so high above their kids shoulders is going to be outgrown much sooner because the harness straps won't fit around them. :twocents:

I really hate this whole situation, because I like the seat. But I'm having ethical issues with recommending the seat at the moment. I have no reason to suspect safety concerns. But it's hard to recommend a seat that you know the company that's standing behind it isn't going to take care of the customer and own up to mistakes.
 

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
I wonder if the short straps seats have anything to do with the fact that CT apparently bought straight from China :rolleyes: :confused: Since it does seem that all the short strapped seats are from CT I wonder if PJM (since the box says PJM) sold the short strap seats for cheaper to CT to get them off their hands!?

I have definitely wondered that. But was the Radian available for purchase anywhere else when CT first brought it in, or was it a little while before it became available in boutiques and other places?

My other sneaky suspicion, is that PJM is trying to get CT to pull their stock - especially if they got it direct from the factory, and CT isn't willing to do it and is instead clearancing the seats to rid themselves of the problem. And so in return PJM is wanting customers to foot the bill for shipping, and encouraging them to return the seat to CT, knowing full well that only seats from CT are affected and they won't be ticking off any of their distributors or ending up getting the seats back that way anyways. Kind of a screw you to CT - you won't pull the seats, fine, we'll make customers return the seats to you.

There likely is much more to the story, but it's consumers getting the bum end of the deal. :thumbsdown:
 

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