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  1. #1
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    Canada Britax Advocate 2012- Question regarding the crash safety

    Hello.
    We purchased the Britax Advocate 65-G3 in 2013 for my daughter (who is now 6). She still fits into it so we are planning on using the seat this summer during our vacation when taking taxi's. We generally don't use it as we don't own a car but do use it on occasion when taking taxi's.
    We purchased it based on the fact that it ranked highest in crash tests and that it has airbags for extra protection. However, I recently read that the crash safety is poor. I'm very confused and am hoping that somebody could shed some light on the results for me.
    I will write down as much information listed inside the base of the car seat. The label is rather faded, so I hope that all the information is correct.

    BRITAX ADVOCATE 65-G3
    TRUE SIDE IMPACT PROTECTION
    Date: 9/18/2012 TIME: 1..?..4
    HBJHPJTNPRCIZBW or HBJMPJTNPRCIZBW (Note:4th Letter Is An H or an M)
    Item #: L401600
    JO31174
    Color: OXEHFULFJJRKBBCI
    ..?..VISION:C
    30008-Shell GEN2 A..?.. ASMT2
    WILBERT PLASTIC SERVICES, HARRISBURG, NC

    I COULD TAKE A PHOTO OF THE LABEL BUT I AM NOT SURE HOW TO ATTACH IT OR WHERE TO SEND IT TO.

    THANKS VERY MUCH FOR ANY HELP YOU CAN OFFER ME. MUCH APPRECIATED.
    ELAINE.

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  3. #2
    CPS Fanatic
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,270

    Re: Britax Advocate 2012- Question regarding the crash safety

    Where did you read that the crash safety was poor?

    It doesn't last as long as I would like for rear facing, but that's not a consideration for a 6 year old. It wouldn't be my first choice for occasional use in taxis, either, but that's for price/convenience reasons.

  4. #3
    ellis
    Guest

    Re: Britax Advocate 2012- Question regarding the crash safety

    All seats pass the same test and standards. There is no way to know, for sure, that any one seat is safer than another. Where did you read that the crash test safety was poor? Third party testing should always be taken with more than a grain of salt.

    As long as your daughter fits in the seat and you can install it properly, than it is completely safe to use.

  5. #4
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    Re: Britax Advocate 2012- Question regarding the crash safety

    Thanks so much. I did not realize that all seats pass the same test and standards. I cannot recall off hand where I read about the crash safety but it lead me to a youtube clip and it did not appear to perform very well on the video.

  6. #5
    ellis
    Guest

    Re: Britax Advocate 2012- Question regarding the crash safety

    Do you have the link to the youtube clip still? That might help with figuring it out. Looking around I can't find anything more than some routine side impact footage that looks pretty normal. When looking at crash test footage remember that it will always be quite violent - crash tests are performed at quite high speeds for an actual impact (human drivers almost always brake and slow down quite a bit from their original speed).

    Always remember - the safest seat is the one that fits your car, fits your child, and that you will use properly every time. Make sure your install is tight, use a seatbelt if she's over the latch weight limit, always use your top tether, and make sure her harness passes the pinch test and rest assured, she will be perfectly safe.

    Here's how to do the pinch test, if you don't know what that is - http://csftl.org/do-you-do-the-pinch-test/

  7. #6
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    Question Re: Britax Advocate 2012- Question regarding the crash safety

    Thanks for your reply.
    I think this is where they mention that the Advocate had poor crash test results although looking at it again I'm not sure whether it is referring to 2012 model.
    https://www.babygearlab.com/reviews/...clicktight-arb
    With regards to a tether, none of the taxi's that we use give us that option. Can this seat be safely installed forward facing without a tether? Also, is the anti-rebound bar just for use when rear facing?
    Does the latch weight limit apply to my model?
    Thanks again for your help, it is much appreciated.

  8. #7
    ellis
    Guest

    Re: Britax Advocate 2012- Question regarding the crash safety

    The link you provided is for the Clicktight, which is a completely different seat despite sharing the name "Advocate". I also couldn't find any links to crash footage there. Regardless, don't worry too much about it.

    Check the latch weight limit in your manual - since your daughter is older you may have to use the seatbelt. Do NOT use the latch if she is over the limit in your carseats manual.

    The ARB is NEVER for forward facing. It is only used for rear facing.

    You are in Canada it appears? Then you MUST tether forward facing. This is the standard used to test seats and the LAW. Top tethers reduce head excursion (how far a child's head travels forward in a crash) and help prevent serious injuries from striking the vehicle interior.

    What kind of taxis are you using? Tether anchors have been required in vehicles for years and this should include taxis that aren't large vans unless the vehicles are quite old- look for the anchors on the shelf behind the rear seats in sedan type cars. If there are headrests, then the anchors are probably behind the headrests.

    If you truly cannot tether in the taxi, and your daughter is over 40lbs, then it would be better to use a highback booster seat, assuming she will sit properly for the entire ride. If she is less than 40lb the best option would be to rearface her - if she is under 40lbs this may be feasible, though you might need a new eat for height.

    If there is no way that ANY of the above will work, the Britax seats DO pass testing untethered in the US and an untethered harnessed seat is still better than no seat, or improperly used booster. But please try your best to avoid the situation. If you have to install it this way, you must use the seatbelt and NOT the latch anchors - the latch anchors can only be used with a top tether, never without.

  9. #8
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    Re: Britax Advocate 2012- Question regarding the crash safety

    Thanks again for your response.
    I will check again with the taxi company. It makes sense that they would have the tether anchors if the law states that we have to use the tether in Canada.
    My daughter weighs around 42 lbs. The manual says to not use the LUAS installation if the child is over 40lbs. Is LUAS the same as the LATCH that you mentioned?
    So it seems that I should the lap and shoulder belt (which is what we have always used) in conjunction with the tether...is that correct?
    Also, do I use just one lock off or both lock offs. I watched a clip on youtube using both lock offs. Under what circumstances would I use both?

  10. #9
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    Re: Britax Advocate 2012- Question regarding the crash safety

    Yes, LUAS is the same as LATCH. I forgot you sometimes call it something else up in Canada.

    Yes, use the seatbelt - either a lap-shoulder belt or a lap only belt, as well as the top tether. When installing with a lap belt, you do not use the lock-offs.

    Looking at a video for the G3 made by Britax, it appears you use only the lock-off closet to the buckle. Do not use the lock off on the shoulder belt side.

    When you call the taxi company, be prepared to possibly hit a brick wall of ignorance - the person you talk to may have no clue what a tether anchor even is.

    You can help narrow it down by asking the vehicle model years. Tether anchors have been required pre-installed since the 2001 model year in the US, and I believe this is true for Canada as well. Certainly anything 2003 onward should have them. If a vehicle has LATCH/LUAS then it will always have a top tether in those seating positions.

    Note - if we're talking about big (10- passenger or similar) vans the vehicles may be exempt from the requirement due to their weight. (Additionally, model years from 1989 onward should be able to be retrofit with top tethers and the taxi company *should* do this for their older vehicles - but getting this to happen may be like pulling hens teeth, and it doesn't help you right now.)

    The Car Seat Lady has this with a helpful infographic of possible tether locations. http://thecarseatlady.com/where-in-m...ether-anchors/

  11. #10
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    Guest

    Re: Britax Advocate 2012- Question regarding the crash safety

    You have been most helpful.
    We have come across a further stumbling block. Our trip involves taking taxi's for the first part of the trip and then my sister-in-law will be picking us up in her Toyota Corolla 1995 which I understand does not have a tether (ugh!). I've looked into getting one installed (around $50 Canadian) if she is open to getting this done. If she isn't this now leads me to thinking about buying a booster seat for the trip instead. I've read that a booster seat can offer 60% greater protection than just a seat belt alone. Does this apply to a backless booster or a booster with a headrest or both? Can I compare the crash safety between a car seat (like the Britax Advocate), a backless booster and a booster with a headrest.
    Also, does a booster with a headrest have to be tethered?
    Thanks again for your time and effort.

  12. #11
    ellis
    Guest

    Re: Britax Advocate 2012- Question regarding the crash safety

    I can't speak as to the specifics. In general a backless is no less safe than a highback booster, but as your daughter has never used a booster before a supportive highback booster would be a better choice. It will remind her to sit properly and help support her if she falls asleep. Additionally, backless boosters require vehicle head support to the tips of the ears - your SIL's car, being older, may have low or nonexistent headrests.

    You don't have to tether a booster - the only country where boosters are tethered is Australia! (Okay, some combination seats might want the tether used when using latch in booster mode, but dedicated boosters? Never.) What you do need for a booster is a lap/shoulder belt. You can't use a booster in a lap-only belt position. This means your daughter probably won't be able to sit in the middle.

    The Britax Parkway would be a good choice, because of the SecureGuard clip - this goes between the child's legs, like the crotch strap from a harness. It helps discourage slouching and prevent submarining (sliding under the lapblet).

    Some good standbys include the Graco Turbobooster and the Harmony Dreamtime. The Evenflo Spectrum is a nice supportive booster that is easy to buckle - the design means there's no accidentally putting the belt in the wrong place. It's also very tall and so will last a long time. The Evenflo Rightfit would also likely work well, and has nifty reading lights in the headrest. Harmony also has a folding travel booster

    Some highback boosters require vehicle head restraint - these include the Diono seats, all Dorel seats (Cosco/Safety 1st/Eddie Bauer/Maxi-Cosi).

    There might be a booster I'm forgetting but that's probably about it for your situation. If you're gonna go with a booster check out these articles from CSFTL on booster readiness and booster fit. If you can, take a test ride or two with her in the booster before your trip. http://csftl.org/harness-or-booster-...ke-the-switch/ http://csftl.org/proper-booster-fit/

    One other possibility, especially if the ride to your SIL is long or in the evening/night - have a booster purchased by/shipped to your SIL to use in her car and use your (tethered!) Britax in the taxi. You can leave the booster with her for future visits if those are likely. (I'd buy an inexpensive booster for this option.)

  13. #12
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    Guest

    Re: Britax Advocate 2012- Question regarding the crash safety

    I wanted to thank you for your detailed response.
    I may return with further questions!

  14. #13
    Unregistered
    Guest

    Question Re: Britax Advocate 2012- Question regarding the crash safety

    Hello again,
    1/Can the Britax Parkway, GracoTurbobooster, Harmony Dreamtime and Evenflo Spectrum that you suggested be used in cars with a headrest or does the headrest have to be removed before installing?
    2/Which one of the above performs best in side impact, given that we cannot use the middle seat due to there only being a lap belt?
    3/Do any of them not perform well in side impacts?
    4/There is quite a price difference between the Harmony Dreamtime and the Britax Parkway. Is the Parkway far superior?
    5/I'm also curious, why does the Britax Advocate have to be tethered yet a booster not?
    6/Also, you mention that a child her age might have trouble sitting in a high back booster properly for the entire ride. Do you mean because it cannot be reclined?
    7/When you say that my Britax Advocate passes testing untethered. How does it compare to testing tethered?

    Sorry for so many questions.
    Again, thank you for your time.

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