Hazelandlucy
Active member
Would a rental car from a major rental company (enterprise) have a top tether? They can't tell me exactly what car I am getting but it's an SUV.
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UK cars and top tethers
- Thread starter Hazelandlucy
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It is increasingly likely but not guaranteed.
Adventuredad
New member
It's impossible to say since it depends on type of car and model year. Top tether is not really in Europe since it's a poor option. It would be best not to bring a seat which requires top tether.
jwilliams
New member
It's not a poor option. I don't particularly want to booster my kids until they are 40lbs, yet I also don't want to keep them rear facing until they hit that weight, which likely will be at age 6. So I am glad for top tethers to reduce head excursion in a front facing harnessed seat.
1mommy
New member
Not to mention in the U.S. and Canada most kids hit the height limit of rear facing before weight and most are not mature enough for a booster at that age. My son has hit the 40" height limit on one of his car seats and I do not have the funds to go out and buy him another ERF seat at the age of 4. Is it a perfect scenario? No, but it is safer then the alternative as it is not a perfect world.
TechnoGranola
Forum Ambassador
I guess this is why your signature says you will only post ONE comment on each thread. Because you don't feel like listening to people tell you that your comments aren't reasonable.
All forward facing Canadian seats require a top tether, so are you saying any forward facing Canadian child shouldn't travel to Europe unless they are in a booster? I know over there they booster kids as early as 3 and more often around 4-5 (and rear facing prior to that), but it's fairly typical in Canada to have those same aged kids in harnessed seats.
While you say boostering is safer than a FF harnessed seat, you've never given us a lick of proof that it is. All of us want desperately to know which is safer...but we're not taking the word of random, internet stranger to tell us so. Transport Canada has done crash tests and studies and the top tether is a benefit in forward facing, harnessed seats compared to no tether in a harnessed seat. So much so, they made it law. If Sweden has done the comparison tests between top tethered, harness seats, and boosters, then why not share it? Where are these studies published? It's frustrating not knowing which is safest. If there is someone out there that knows, why aren't they sharing it?
(and I don't where the OP is located, I just used Canada in my comments since that is where I am located)
Adventuredad
New member
The questions was:
The answer is most likely not since there are too many factors and the poster has provided too little information.
If we continue with OT sandbox stuff we see that the issue of top tether is more complicated than answering a post but in general the benefits are small and the misuse rate is enormous. Most people simply don't use top tether regardless if its required or not. When it comes to providing good car seat safety it's best to follow strategies which are simple, inexpensive and work fairly well.
The car seat habits in Europe are in general terrible. The booster habits in Europe are also very poor just as mentioned. There is no argument about that. It's the same with US. The habits are a disaster. Not among members of this forum but that is sadly an extremely small percentage of the population. Most parents simply don't care.
Booster use at age three in Europe was mentioned. That is being very generous I'm sorry so say. As you travel south in Europe you will find that most three year olds are not even in a booster cushion. The further south the worse habits are. Just like in US.
Sweden and Greece (or Spain, Italy, Portugal, Malta, France, etc) are EU countries but comparing the two in car seat safety is like night and day. Just like comparing Minnesota with southern places like Lousiana, Mississippi, Alabama, etc. In southern Europe children often sit unrestrained regardless of age. Just like US. We have tons of kids, anything from infants to older kids, sitting unrestrained in the front seat in the lap of mother/grandmother with an active airbag. Or in the back seat hanging out of the window.
When we compare rear facing with forward facing for children to around age four we see that rear facing is 500% safer. So it makes since to make a big effort to convince parents to stay rear facing. When it comes to high back booster vs. harnessed seats or using a seat with top tether or not the difference of safety is so minor that it's basically irrelevant.
Arguing about harnessed seats or high back boosters, or top tether vs. no top tether is silly since it's taking focus away from what's really important. And that is to keep kids rear facing for a long time.
In Sweden we consider high back boosters safer than harnessed FF seats for older children. But we are logical and rational and know that the difference in safety is small. If someone wants to spend several hundred dollars more for a harnessed seat that is fine. The safety difference in the big picture is completely irrelevant. Regardless if HBB are slightly more safe or harnessed seats are slightly more safe.
Since I spend quite a bit of time in the crash test facilities, unlike other "experts" on this forum I know that comparing HBB with harnessed seats or FF seats with top tether in a lab environment isn't possible. There are too many factors involved and the injuries can be very different.
In general it's best to follow strategies or advice from people, countries, organisations etc. where things work well. In Sweden we follow a simple and low cost approach and this works very well. Rear facing to age four and then a high back booster. We recommend HBB since these work relatively well even though we see that many kids using these are too young. But in the big perspective it's a very effective solution of keeping most kids safe in the car without spending a fortune. I see no other country which comes even close to keeping kids as safe in the car so I think we are doing something right.
There is still lots of work to be done and things are unfortunately worsening quite fast in Sweden due to the huge mass invasion of immigrants during the past few years. Keeping kids safe in the car is much about basic education and this is a struggle for us at the moment when we look at habits from newly arriving people.
The answer is most likely not since there are too many factors and the poster has provided too little information.
If we continue with OT sandbox stuff we see that the issue of top tether is more complicated than answering a post but in general the benefits are small and the misuse rate is enormous. Most people simply don't use top tether regardless if its required or not. When it comes to providing good car seat safety it's best to follow strategies which are simple, inexpensive and work fairly well.
The car seat habits in Europe are in general terrible. The booster habits in Europe are also very poor just as mentioned. There is no argument about that. It's the same with US. The habits are a disaster. Not among members of this forum but that is sadly an extremely small percentage of the population. Most parents simply don't care.
Booster use at age three in Europe was mentioned. That is being very generous I'm sorry so say. As you travel south in Europe you will find that most three year olds are not even in a booster cushion. The further south the worse habits are. Just like in US.
Sweden and Greece (or Spain, Italy, Portugal, Malta, France, etc) are EU countries but comparing the two in car seat safety is like night and day. Just like comparing Minnesota with southern places like Lousiana, Mississippi, Alabama, etc. In southern Europe children often sit unrestrained regardless of age. Just like US. We have tons of kids, anything from infants to older kids, sitting unrestrained in the front seat in the lap of mother/grandmother with an active airbag. Or in the back seat hanging out of the window.
When we compare rear facing with forward facing for children to around age four we see that rear facing is 500% safer. So it makes since to make a big effort to convince parents to stay rear facing. When it comes to high back booster vs. harnessed seats or using a seat with top tether or not the difference of safety is so minor that it's basically irrelevant.
Arguing about harnessed seats or high back boosters, or top tether vs. no top tether is silly since it's taking focus away from what's really important. And that is to keep kids rear facing for a long time.
In Sweden we consider high back boosters safer than harnessed FF seats for older children. But we are logical and rational and know that the difference in safety is small. If someone wants to spend several hundred dollars more for a harnessed seat that is fine. The safety difference in the big picture is completely irrelevant. Regardless if HBB are slightly more safe or harnessed seats are slightly more safe.
Since I spend quite a bit of time in the crash test facilities, unlike other "experts" on this forum I know that comparing HBB with harnessed seats or FF seats with top tether in a lab environment isn't possible. There are too many factors involved and the injuries can be very different.
In general it's best to follow strategies or advice from people, countries, organisations etc. where things work well. In Sweden we follow a simple and low cost approach and this works very well. Rear facing to age four and then a high back booster. We recommend HBB since these work relatively well even though we see that many kids using these are too young. But in the big perspective it's a very effective solution of keeping most kids safe in the car without spending a fortune. I see no other country which comes even close to keeping kids as safe in the car so I think we are doing something right.
There is still lots of work to be done and things are unfortunately worsening quite fast in Sweden due to the huge mass invasion of immigrants during the past few years. Keeping kids safe in the car is much about basic education and this is a struggle for us at the moment when we look at habits from newly arriving people.
Here we go again. I bow at your "experted" feet. I'll stick with my studies, I guess, which prove in written form (which you can't seem to provide when asked to provide here time and again) whether boosters are better than forward-facing harnessed tethered seats. Oh, but that's right--there aren't any. I will agree with you, though, that rear-facing is safer, but that's a road many parents aren't willing to travel, especially when their children have already outgrown our wimpy American carseats.
Anyway, as we all know, it's in poor taste to come to a forum to not provide solid proof of information (other than to pat one's own back for being so smart) AND to insult its readers. Just stop. Oh but wait, you won't come back to read this thread so my time is wasted.
Niniel
New member
There is no guarantee of course, but I have been in Europe since november and have rented about 10 different cars so far. Every single one of them has had anchor points. I am assuming it would be similar in the UK. Can you request a car with anchor points?
Hazelandlucy
Active member
The lady answering the phone said the car will have Isofix and she "thinks" a top tether. I had to describe to her what one was.
Is it ok to use a convertible without a top tether? Still safe just less safe or not safe at all?
I have debated boostering her for the trip since she will be 4.5, but I think she will do a lot of car sleeping with the time change. Does a high back booster keep a sleeping kid in position ok? I originally thought she would be 40 lbs, but has been 38 lbs forever - is 40 lbs some kind of rule for boostering?
I could lug the Fllo over and rear face her, but trying to avoid a massive heavy seat through the airports this time. Last trip i brought a click tight and a G4 Britax and it was a big pain. Also I am 99% sure it would be a major war to get her to do it.
Is it ok to use a convertible without a top tether? Still safe just less safe or not safe at all?
I have debated boostering her for the trip since she will be 4.5, but I think she will do a lot of car sleeping with the time change. Does a high back booster keep a sleeping kid in position ok? I originally thought she would be 40 lbs, but has been 38 lbs forever - is 40 lbs some kind of rule for boostering?
I could lug the Fllo over and rear face her, but trying to avoid a massive heavy seat through the airports this time. Last trip i brought a click tight and a G4 Britax and it was a big pain. Also I am 99% sure it would be a major war to get her to do it.
How much does she weigh? How much driving will you be doing? What about a Contender? You could sell it afterwards if you don't want to keep it, and (assuming she's under 40 pounds) have the option to RF if there's no tether anchor.
Alternatively, take a Maestro. Harness on the plane. If there's a tether anchor, stick with the harness. If not, switch to booster mode.
Alternatively, take a Maestro. Harness on the plane. If there's a tether anchor, stick with the harness. If not, switch to booster mode.
Hazelandlucy
Active member
I think that is the best option, but I just checked about the Maestro and it says 43" height minimum to booster? Is that correct? She won't be that tall.
Does she still need to sit in a seat on a plane? I am thinking of getting a 3 in 1 seat (for the backless booster part) that I can take apart and pack/stow on plane instead of taking through airport. That gives me the same harness/booster flexibility and I don't have to carry it around.
Dillipop
Well-known member
I would take the harnessed seat and use it without a tether if necessary. For a newly 4 year old, I would guess that an untethered ffing seat will be comparable in safety to a booster. Especially at her size. The top tether is not mandatory for most US seats, so make sure to take one that doesn't require it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You can certainly use a convertible without a tether--they must all pass testing without a tether. It's just that with the tether, head excursion is reduced by 4-6", so that's why we preach about it here like it's almost mandatory. But if the car doesn't have a tether anchor, make sure to get as tight an install as you can.
Some high-backs will keep a kid in better sleeping position than others, but it has more to do with how the child falls asleep. If the child falls asleep forward, the child will fold in half, even in a high-back. Most high-backs start at 30 lbs., but some start at 40 lbs. There's no rhyme or reason to it, just like how most backless boosters start at 40 lbs., but the Harmony boosters start at 30 lbs. :shrug-shoulders:
Have you considered buying an Evenflo SureRide? It's a convertible, but it's got 19" top harness slots and it's lightweight so it's good for travel. With a 3-in-1, yes, you've got your backless with you on the plane, but you're so limited in what you can take in baggage (at least that's been my experience with overseas flights) that adding carseats to your luggage would take up a considerable amount of space or cost $$$. The Maestro is another lightweight option, like you've considered, but it's so limited as a booster and you said your dd isn't that tall yet.
Hazelandlucy
Active member
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3217395/
I found this and thought it was interesting with regard to a convertible with no tether and a high back booster - looks the booster does have less head excursion than an untethered convertible?
Is there a combination seat that starts at a lower height for the booster? The Maestro is 43 inches and my DD is 40.5 inches and the trip is 3 months away. So she will probably be in the 41 - 41.5 inch range.
I found this and thought it was interesting with regard to a convertible with no tether and a high back booster - looks the booster does have less head excursion than an untethered convertible?
Is there a combination seat that starts at a lower height for the booster? The Maestro is 43 inches and my DD is 40.5 inches and the trip is 3 months away. So she will probably be in the 41 - 41.5 inch range.
The Graco Tranzitions (Babies R Us exclusive) is a 3-in-1 seat with a 38" minimum booster height.
The Harmony Defender has a 34" minimum booster height, which seems crazy low.
Dillipop
Well-known member
The booster only has less head excursion if the child is sitting exactly in the right place. A harness guarantees that. For a new 4 year old, I personally would choose an untethered seat over a booster.
Hazelandlucy
Active member
Thanks! On the trip she will be 4 yrs, 7 months....but still she has no experience in a booster so you are probably right.
biddyk8
New member
Late to the party but we rent a car in the UK every time we go back and they have all always had a top tether point. All of my families cars and suvs in the UK and Ireland also have them apart from 1 car which is a 2000. I hope that helps.
Oh and we usually rent with enterprise or budget
Oh and we usually rent with enterprise or budget
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