infant seat not as safe as convertible?

bnsnyde · Dec 9, 2015

http://www.consumerreports.org/conv...convertible-car-seat-sooner-rather-than-later

So I read that article. And I um, bought an infant seat to last to 2 years old for the average child! Graco 40. He is 7 months.

A convertible is safer b/c it offers MUCH less chance of child's head hitting the seatback? OK, I am sold but he is in the middle so there is NO seatback. So are we good to keep using this? (I have a Fllo for him for whenever).

I have a lot of trouble getting us safely through any lot (and add the cold) with the 6 little ones so I would be quite lost w/o my infant seat! I know he can't stay forever, but at least I have a hand for the 2 YO! And baby needs no coat so no coat to add bulk (even a fleece adds some bulk).

But then...my tall 2 YO in her RF Fllo...I wonder if I have seatback worries for her? The seat is RIGHT there but not touching. I am 5'8" and dad is 6'4". But what's the alternative, right? I do worry about her head ramming into the seat. Hm. Our van is full, too.

rachelandtyke · Dec 9, 2015

carseatblog did a post on it: http://carseatblog.com/36420/the-sa...on-ratings-and-methods-from-consumer-reports/

Brigala · Dec 9, 2015

They didn't tell us which infant seats had the problem and which ones didn't.

I would not expect an average 2 year old to fit in the CC40 in spite of Graco's wild marketing claims. However I WOULD expect it to remain safe for an average baby until over a year.

I have a petite 12 month old and I'm not rushing out to move her infant seat out of our secondary car where it now resides. It's an Onboard Air and has about as much height capacity as the CC40. She has miles of car seat above her head.

The CR results are enough to make me decide I probably won't push the limits just to see if my small kid can make it to two.

But not all infant seats are the same height and they only observed the issue in about half of them. I assume it was the shorter half. So the tall RFOs, such as the Onboard, and the Graco Snugride 35 and 40, I'm not to worried about for a 12 month old.

Keeanh · Dec 10, 2015

Do we know if the dummy fit properly by height in all the seats? Was the dummy's head over 1" below the top of the shell?

All it means to me is that you shouldn't let your kid's head get too close to the top of the shell especially if there's a seat in close proximity in front of it. I've never had a child get anywhere close to even 2" before they're protesting the infant seat, so not a big deal to me. I don't think it's saying anything about the overall safety of infant seats. Just that you shouldn't push the limits.

Nedra · Dec 10, 2015

Brigala said:
They didn't tell us which infant seats had the problem and which ones didn't.

They didn't, but the CC40 (in it's most upright position) is the seat that is shown in the CR article pictures. :-(

I know how you feel, OP! I was actually thinking of getting one of the CC40 after our DD2 outgrows the Aton -- not for carrying around, but to easily transfer the seat between two of our cars and avoid getting 2 convertible seats. But with the cost of an extra base and now these safety concerns, I am thinking it's just not worth it.

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lgenne · Dec 10, 2015

I don't know the right answer. But I'm considering retiring the CCO this weekend. Tall 13 month old has maybe 1.5-2" above his head, and the Radian is just sitting in the basement. At least I can ditch the puzzle buckle. But no more purple!

gigi · Dec 10, 2015

I would keep him in it, just not push the limits.

Brigala · Dec 10, 2015

Nedra said:
They didn't, but the CC40 (in it's most upright position) is the seat that is shown in the CR article pictures. :-(

Ug. I didn't notice that.

lgenne said:
I don't know the right answer. But I'm considering retiring the CCO this weekend. Tall 13 month old has maybe 1.5-2" above his head, and the Radian is just sitting in the basement. At least I can ditch the puzzle buckle. But no more purple!

Alexandra's other ride is a CCO right now too. But she has a ton of room over her head and will have even more when I take the infant cushion out (she has an older CCO that allows the cushion to come out at 15 lbs; she weighs about 18 lbs now so I can take it out any time).

I'm very frustrated that they said 53% of their seats allowed contact and didn't tell us which 53%. It matters!! Also which convertible did they test that allowed contact?

From the tech webinar, it wasn't entirely clear whether they understood the question when asked whether the dummies fit all the seats within the 1" rule or not. She answered that the dummy was 29" tall and therefore fit within the inch rule in all the seats they tested... but the way she said it made it kind of sound like she meant the dummies were all under the required number of inches (29) and I couldn't tell whether she was even aware of the other 1" of shell above the head rule which, as far as I know, applies to all infant seats.

And when asked why they were saying 1 year instead of a height or weight, their answer didn't really make sense either. Alex is just now outgrowing her 6 month clothing (she still wears the ones that I like the most). She's little! But CR's recommendation doesn't take that into account at all.

I think I'm comfortable continuing to use the CCO and OBA for now because she's NOT pushing the limits at all. I just wish I had more useful information from CR.

creideamh · Dec 10, 2015

She did say at the end of her answer that they followed the 1" rule. It was just buried in her long answer about the dummy being 29" tall.

I also think her point was the 12mo dummy is 22#, 29" so their 1yo recommendation is based on the size of the "average" 1yo (meaning the 12mo dummy size - I have no idea if that's still considered average or not, but I think that's what she meant.) I found it interesting (scary) that more infant seats failed with the more weight they added, given the push for higher weight infant seats in the US.

Brigala · Dec 10, 2015

creideamh said:
She did say at the end of her answer that they followed the 1" rule. It was just buried in her long answer about the dummy being 29" tall. I also think her point was the 12mo dummy is 22#, 29" so their 1yo recommendation is based on the size of the "average" 1yo (meaning the 12mo dummy size - I have no idea if that's still considered average or not, but I think that's what she meant.) I found it interesting (scary) that more infant seats failed with the more weight they added, given the push for higher weight infant seats in the US.

I did hear her say at the end that they followed "the inch rule" I just wasn't entirely sure she meant the same thing we all mean when we say that.

I agree it's concerning that adding weight to the dummies seemed to be an issue. Since my peanut is still small enough for the lowest capacity RFOs I'm not too concerned yet but I wish I had more data.

bnsnyde · Dec 10, 2015

And if an infant seat's in the middle with no seatback in front of it...then does the safety concern even matter?

That could sway me to keep my infant seat there in the middle instead of the convertible. I use my knee to hoist it so it's not that bad on my back.

Is this info implying infant seats should (ideally) not go outboard if you have anything much bigger than a tiny new baby?

seb3244 · Dec 10, 2015

Bookmarking

katymyers · Dec 10, 2015

Both my girls fit in their infant seats (by height, weight, and one inch rule, in fact they both reached the stated height limit before they were close to an inch from the top of the shell) until they were over two years old and I used them as back up seats in my husband's car until they were fully outgrown. I fail to see how using a seat within its stated limits is in any way unsafe. My boys rear faced in their Graco MyRides until they hit the one inch mark, is THAT unsafe? It's the same principle.

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Carrie_R · Dec 10, 2015

FWIW, I looked up the seated height of the 12m CRABI dummy. It's 18.9" (480mm.) So in a SR40, which has a 21" seated height capacity with the headrest in its highest position per carseatblog, there should have been 2"+ of space and there was still contact. But most seats are shorter than that and I believe some are shorter than 18.9" right?

Nedra · Dec 10, 2015

Carrie_R said:
FWIW, I looked up the seated height of the 12m CRABI dummy. It's 18.9" (480mm.) So in a SR40, which has a 21" seated height capacity with the headrest in its highest position per carseatblog, there should have been 2"+ of space and there was still contact. But most seats are shorter than that and I believe some are shorter than 18.9" right?

Because of the no-re thread harness and adjustable headrest, the dummy wouldn't necessarily have had 2"+ above the head. Hard to say for sure without knowing how much of that seated height is head/neck and how much is torso.

I wonder if the size of the infant seat (particularly a big one like the CC40) is the problem because it places the seat too close to the seat back in front of it? If so, then maybe the Coccoro wouldn't be a problem even for a child who is close to outgrowing it, but a bulkier convertible that just barely fits behind the front seat would?

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_juune · Dec 11, 2015

I think there's another possible difference besides pure size and shell height between infant and convertible seats that might influence the dummy hitting vs. not hitting the seatback with it's head. I don't really have time to look for it now but I saw some time ago in some old-ish paper [was about Euro seats] two pictures from crash tests side by side showing an infant a seat that performed well in regards to head and neck support [frontal impact] and another that did not, basically the poor one's shell had stretched and bent more thus becoming more horizontal than the other one. I think it's quite likely that convertibles in general are, umm, "tougher"? Like with a stiffer shell that bends less and therefore as the whole seat rotates it becomes less horizontal than an infant seat would which equates to less movement towards the backrest of the front seat? Also some infant seats might be tougher than others in the same way, hence the differences in test results.

Cnidaria · Dec 11, 2015

Anyone else feel like if this were a real-world problem, we would be hearing a lot more about older babies who were properly strapped into their properly-installed infant seats but sustained serious injuries anyway?

Baylor · Dec 11, 2015

Cnidaria said:
Anyone else feel like if this were a real-world problem, we would be hearing a lot more about older babies who were properly strapped into their properly-installed infant seats but sustained serious injuries anyway?

I have learned over the years to watch what they say about car seats come back here and then weigh it all.

I have not heard of an outbreak of children properly installed in a properly and appropriately used rear facing Infant bucket of any age, being killed or injured in a crash.

There are so many things that come into play, right? But if you are within the guidelines for the seat than it has been tested at that limit or above yes??

If I was rearfacing a toddler in an infant seat who was still in the guidelines, I would not sweat it.

I thought that was the whole reason they upped the weight/height requirements in the first place?

Cnidaria · Dec 11, 2015

I wonder whether they installed the convertible seats at the newborn recline or more upright? Did they address that in the tech webinar? And I really wonder what the one seat was where the dummy's head made contact!

Cnidaria · Dec 11, 2015

Baylor said:
But if you are within the guidelines for the seat than it has been tested at that limit or above yes??

The test sled for compliance with FMVSS 413 doesn't have a back-of-a-front-seat in front of it, though. I do think this will turn out to be an important contribution, once the dust settles.

infant seat not as safe as convertible?

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