no tether anchor

lpperry

Active member
We are considering a 2000 Land Cruiser. I don't think it has tether anchors. :mad:

Would you be comfortable forward facing a child in a Radian without a tether anchor? Or do we not get this car?
 
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seb3244

New member
I am pretty sure most, if not all, car manufacturers will put in a retro fit one for you. You would just have to buy that car and not have your child ride in it until you got it put in. At least that's what I would do.
 

lpperry

Active member
There is some confusion about whether a 2000 Land Cruiser can have it retrofitted. Pre-2000 Land Cruisers are not allowed to have a retrofitted tether.

2000 cars and newer are supposed to have 3 top tethers. Apparently, some SUVs lagged behind a bit on this is the info I got from people on this board. So, 2000 is in this grey area here--it doesn't have latch, but can it be retrofitted? The Toyota company has not a clue what I am talking about when I asked regarding one of the Land Cruisers I am looking at. I guess I call different people until I get someone who knows what he/she is talking about? And see if it is possible?

If it isn't possible to retrofit, is it safe for my 4 year olds to ride in a forward facing radian? They would ride in a radian from 4 years to 6 years. Or I could move them to a booster earlier--5 1/2 for that car. I have an 18 month old, 3 1/2 year old, and an almost 5 year old. My kids rear face until 4, so it is going to be a issue very soon for the 3 1/2 year old and is an issue for the 5 year old. The 3 1/2 year old is tiny. Theoretically, I could just keep him rear facing in that car until 5 1/2 and then booster, crossing my fingers he doesn't make it to 45 pounds until 5 1/2 or 6. But the almost 5 year old is big. She is 46 pounds and can't rear face in the radians we have with the 45 rear facing weight limit. Not sure when the 3 1/2 year old will pass that up either.

Is it safer to forward face in Radian with no top tether for the 46 pound 5 year old or to go with a high back booster for her? I've always used 6 as my booster age...
 

Carrie_R

Ambassador - CPS Technician
I would call Stephanie Tombrello at SafetyBeltSafe. First of all - you can purchase their TA certificates, which benefits their program and saves you money. Second of all, she said at Kidz In Motion that if your dealership gives you a hard time, to call her and she'll set it straight. So she may be able to help you!

As to your actual question, would you be open to a different seat? I'd keep the 3.5yo RF and see about getting something with a serpentine belt path (Recaro PerformanceRide, older, non-CT Frontiers) for the 5yo. If not, I wouldn't rush to booster if your child is not ready, but if they are, it would be a viable option.
 

joolsplus3

Admin - CPS Technician
Is this like a fun, part time car? Or will you be trying to fit everyone into it all the time and it's the best car for your budget?
I'm just thinking if you have other options, it wouldn't be my first choice, the tether anchor being among the smaller of the safety concerns of a car from that era lacking all the modern safety devices.
Ridesafer travel vest might be a good option, too, just because it's only as wide as the kid and will be easier to buckle in the long run than a booster next to other seats (only needs a shoulderbelt, no tether).
 

lpperry

Active member
This would be my husband's car. We have an Odyssey that is our family car. My husband really wants the old Land Rover as his every day car. I like that the Land Rover has a 3rd row and we could fit our entire family in the car when needed.

We have a rider safe travel vest. 5 year old could wear that and the 3 1/2 year old and 18 month old could rear face. 6 year old can use the high back booster and 11 year old 5 steps in other cars, so hopefully will in the 3rd row. If not, low back booster for her.

I can rear face the 3 1/2 year old for longer than 4 in the Radian. Avery is only 32 pounds, so we have some time. If he outgrows rear facing, before he turns 5, Claudia will be 5 1/2 or 6 and can go into a booster and give the vest to Avery. Vivian will be rear facing for 2 1/2 more years at least, and when she turns 4, Avery will be 6, so Avery can go into a booster and Vivian can wear the vest.

That should solve the problem of tether, right?

One more question--I'd rather use our Radian than the vest. We got the vest because our carpool lady's highlander didn't have tether anchors in the vest. I couldn' fit a rear facing seat back there and I wasn't comfortable forward facing our extra seat (forget what we were using) without the tether. i guess I didn't want to install the radian forward facing each time for carpool. I can't remember now. I know the Radian is supposed to perform well without the tether, so would people be comfortable using this seat forward facing with no tether?
 

ketchupqueen

CPST and ketchup snob
Staff member
When we had compliance numbers, Radians barely passed. Combined with the crash test video of a tethered and non tethered radians in a real car, I would not use a Radian without a top tether for my kids.
 

joolsplus3

Admin - CPS Technician
I'm seeing it passed quite well, as I had remembered it...? file:///C:/Users/Julie/Downloads/Janu2010ed%20(3).pdf (6 yo dummy, no top tether).

758/1000 for Head Injury Criterion, 47/60 for Chest G's, 737/813 Head Excursion (720 is max allowed with a tether), 747/915 Knee Excursion
 

ketchupqueen

CPST and ketchup snob
Staff member
Hmm. I recall completely different numbers. Odd.

The video was still enough to keep me from entertaining the idea, ever (with almost any seat.) (If I had to choose one, based on videos I've seen, it would be a Britax with SafeCell I think.)
 

jjordan

Moderator
I'm seeing it passed quite well, as I had remembered it...? file:///C:/Users/Julie/Downloads/Janu2010ed%20(3).pdf (6 yo dummy, no top tether).

758/1000 for Head Injury Criterion, 47/60 for Chest G's, 737/813 Head Excursion (720 is max allowed with a tether), 747/915 Knee Excursion

I had it in my head that it was one of the better seats to use if you didn't have a top tether option.

Anyway - OP, I hope that you are able to get a top tether retrofitted and take care of the problem that way. Otherwise, I'm with Carrie that it would make me feel more comfortable to be using a seat that has the shoulder portion of the seat belt holding the top of the seat somewhat.
 

rin2809

Active member
Probably an dumb question, but do you know for sure that it doesn't have tether anchors? We have a 1999 Ford Windstar that doesn't have LATCH, but does have tethers. They are super hidden, had to pull out the manual. So just being a 2000 may not mean it doesn't have them.
 

Dillipop

Well-known member
If it doesn't already have anchors and they can't be retrofitted, I'd put a call into ez-on and see if they know if their anchors can be installed in it.


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lpperry

Active member
I know it doesn't have tether anchors bc I searched and searched and couldn't find any. Then I read the manual in the glove box and no mention. Then I looked up te online manual and no mention.

Ahhhh I don't know what the compliance numbers even mean to make an informed decision over if radian is ok or not. What is the reason we need the tether? To keep seat from moving with the child? The locking shoulder belt won't do that on its own?


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lpperry

Active member
And I will call those places people suggested if we end up seriously considering a specific car. We looked at two and are likely passing on both. Looking at another tomorrow and a 4Runner


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jjordan

Moderator
The use of a top tether reduces head excursion. Basically it keeps the top of the seat from moving as much, which in turn keeps the head from moving as far (since the total head excursion is how far the head moves from a certain fixed point in relation to the vehicle seat). So anything that limits head movement decreases the head excursion measurement. Does that make sense?
 

lpperry

Active member
Yes. That makes sense.

So why does head excursion not matter with a non-tethered booster or the rstv? Or not that it doesn't matter- but why are we not concerned about tethering a booster or rstv in relation to head excursion?


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ketchupqueen

CPST and ketchup snob
Staff member
The RSTV is so low profile and lightweight it performs very well without a tether (still better with.)

Boosters technically allow the same head excursion as an untethered seat but in practice most are designed in such a way they don't hit that limit, especially backless boosters. In addition it's not JUST head excursion at issue; neck and chest loads may be higher when held back more tightly at a different angle (with harness as opposed to seatbelt); a tether mitigates that by reducing overall loads. So there are several issues to look at there...
 

lpperry

Active member
Thanks that helps.

It looks like an old land cruiser is in our near future so I better figure this out...
 

Carrie_R

Ambassador - CPS Technician
Somehow in this thread no one has mentioned a heavy-duty tether anchor from ez-on. That might be your best bet.
 

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