Video about flying with an infant

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LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
Hmm. There's a lot I LOVE about that video. It explains things really well and raises an issue a lot of people don't know about.

But some of the extreme language (saying parents are negligent if they hold their kid on a plane, talking about giving a kid a fighting chance to survive turbulence) is a bit of a turn-off.
 

AllieK

New member
Yeah, the comments on the video are pretty negative. I think many people see this as a money grab by the airlines, even though it's clearly not.
 

Brigala

CPST Instructor
Hmm. There's a lot I LOVE about that video. It explains things really well and raises an issue a lot of people don't know about. But some of the extreme language (saying parents are negligent if they hold their kid on a plane, talking about giving a kid a fighting chance to survive turbulence) is a bit of a turn-off.

Yeah. Deaths from turbulence are not common. Maybe it's happened once or twice but a bloody nose is more likely than a fatality.

I would rather see real injury risks fairly presented than imaginary ones blown out of proportion. And the shaming just isn't cool.

Knowing what I know I'll do what I can to avoid a bruised kid from turbulence. I don't need it presented to me as a life-and-death choice when the odds of that becoming reality are immeasurably tiny.
 

jjordan

Moderator
Yeah. Deaths from turbulence are not common. Maybe it's happened once or twice but a bloody nose is more likely than a fatality.

I would rather see real injury risks fairly presented than imaginary ones blown out of proportion. And the shaming just isn't cool.

Knowing what I know I'll do what I can to avoid a bruised kid from turbulence. I don't need it presented to me as a life-and-death choice when the odds of that becoming reality are immeasurably tiny.

:yeahthat: I rarely have seen actual statistics when the issue of flying with kids gets discussed. I much prefer facts to scare tactics and shaming.
 

thekatie

New member
:yeahthat: I rarely have seen actual statistics when the issue of flying with kids gets discussed. I much prefer facts to scare tactics and shaming.
Do you know where to find actual statistics?

I did a lap baby one time, the first time I flew with J1, and that was the one time we were held on the tarmac for 9.freakin.hours. After that, even before getting "into" safety, I always bought a seat and used a carseat because seriously... it sucked. And if people ask I'll say "it's safer" but then expound on the hell that was holding my freaking out baby for 9 hours.

But, I never see actual statics talked about. Safer, sure. But... I know a couple days ago I was scrolling through FB and someone had asked, and at the time when I looked no one had offered any more her.
 

jjordan

Moderator
Do you know where to find actual statistics?

I did a lap baby one time, the first time I flew with J1, and that was the one time we were held on the tarmac for 9.freakin.hours. After that, even before getting "into" safety, I always bought a seat and used a carseat because seriously... it sucked. And if people ask I'll say "it's safer" but then expound on the hell that was holding my freaking out baby for 9 hours.

But, I never see actual statics talked about. Safer, sure. But... I know a couple days ago I was scrolling through FB and someone had asked, and at the time when I looked no one had offered any more her.

I looked for stats a few years ago and didn't find anything. I would be very surprised if the FAA didn't keeps track, but I don't know if they make the information publicly available.
 

seb3244

New member
Do you know where to find actual statistics? I did a lap baby one time, the first time I flew with J1, and that was the one time we were held on the tarmac for 9.freakin.hours. After that, even before getting "into" safety, I always bought a seat and used a carseat because seriously... it sucked. And if people ask I'll say "it's safer" but then expound on the hell that was holding my freaking out baby for 9 hours. But, I never see actual statics talked about. Safer, sure. But... I know a couple days ago I was scrolling through FB and someone had asked, and at the time when I looked no one had offered any more her.

9
Hrs? Isn't that illegal?!
 

thekatie

New member
9 Hrs? Isn't that illegal?!
No clue, but it was awful. We were leaving Boston to come home to Memphis, and there were awful storms. We finally got home after midnight, and woke up a couple hours later to "Hurricane Elvis" that knocked out power for weeks, destroyed buildings... The airplane was supposed to go, then they'd hold us so someone else could. "We're going back to the terminal." "No, we've been cleared to leave." "Sorry folks, we have to let plane XYZ go." I was 18 with a 3 month old, all I knew was it was hell.

ETA: it was also 12 years ago, maybe regulations have changed?
 

joolsplus3

Admin - CPS Technician
Yeah, it's been more recently than that they changed the rules about how long they can make people sit on the plane on the ground. Daaaang, I feel for you!
 

CTPDMom

Ambassador - CPS Technician
I have a meme from National Safety Council that cites the odds of dying in a car crash are 1 in 112 and odds of dying in a plane crash are 1 in 96,566.

Can't share it on FB, though, or someone will report me to SK (again :cool:) for encouraging lap babies on planes. (Which I don't encourage, for the record, safest and most comfortable way to ride is in a car seat. No question. But lap babies on planes are NOT the same as lap babies in cars.)
 

Brigala

CPST Instructor
I have a meme from National Safety Council that cites the odds of dying in a car crash are 1 in 112 and odds of dying in a plane crash are 1 in 96,566. Can't share it on FB, though, or someone will report me to SK (again :cool:) for encouraging lap babies on planes. (Which I don't encourage, for the record, safest and most comfortable way to ride is in a car seat. No question. But lap babies on planes are NOT the same as lap babies in cars.)

Yeah that.

I totally encourage car seats in planes. Especially over age 2 when it doesn't cost extra, and under age 2 I would actually support a regulation change requiring a car seat. But if statistically it were a significant problem, it would have changed by now.
Heck, I want to see lower anchors added to train seats so kids can be strapped into their seats on trains too. But I seem to be the only one who has even considered that. It's because chasing a toddler up and down a train or not having anywhere to set down a sleeping infant except the floor is annoying. LOL.
But the odds of life-altering injury occurring to a child on either a train or a plane with the current safety regulations in place are just not comparable to the same happening in a MVC. I'm a lot more concerned with the much higher risk of having the car seat get lost or destroyed in transit, resulting in the child ending up unrestrained or badly restrained on the other end.
 

Nedra

Car-Seat.org Ambassador
I have taken two flights with my daughter -- both times she was under 2 and both times we bought her a ticket. I hate that lap babies are allowed, but mostly because I hate getting that look of confusion/pity from people when they find out we bought her a ticket. It's a mix of, "Why would you do that? Don't you know she could ride for FREE?" and "Sounds like those car seat nuts have scared you into thinking that's necessary. What a waste of money." It makes me feel like we are being SOO extravagant for buying our child a plane ticket. :-(

I have wished for lower anchors on trains too, Brigala! It would be cool if you could also buy or rent a LATCH strap so that you could attach an infant carrier to a seat without having to bring he base.

Does anyone know at what age/size kids can usually fit the lap belt on a plane?
 

1mommy

New member
I flew with my oldest son twice as a lap baby (please don't shoot me!). The first time we lucked out and got a free seat so we brought his car seat, the second time the plane was full so he flew as lap baby, the second time he was also a toddler around 18 months vs a baby and did not like being confined to my lap for the entire flight. I had to walk up and down the aisles bouncing him around to keep him from bolting and or screaming and it just was not fun. I think personally they should at lest change the age to a max of 1 year or 18 months max, because lap toddlers are a lot worse both on the parents and other passengers then lap babies. It would also be nice if they could somehow hook up a harness system that actually fit a smaller child like cares but making the lap belt smaller so people who have a car seat waiting for them on the other side have a way of safely sitting their children.

And Nedra, I read your child fits the lap belt on a plane around 40 pounds unless they are tall but skinny like Ketchup Queen said happened with her daughter. I forget how old her daughter was at the time.
 

littleangelfire

Well-known member
I have a meme from National Safety Council that cites the odds of dying in a car crash are 1 in 112 and odds of dying in a plane crash are 1 in 96,566.

Can't share it on FB, though, or someone will report me to SK (again :cool:) for encouraging lap babies on planes. (Which I don't encourage, for the record, safest and most comfortable way to ride is in a car seat. No question. But lap babies on planes are NOT the same as lap babies in cars.)

I saw some idiot say she'd done that. I defended your honor when BabyGuyNYC (forgot his actual user name, but Jamie Grayson, posted something you wrote. Did you see that whole thing? People are so ridiculous! Seriously, go report the techs out there saying to turn 12 month olds forward and who install diono seats wrong
 

AllieK

New member
I have taken two flights with my daughter -- both times she was under 2 and both times we bought her a ticket. I hate that lap babies are allowed, but mostly because I hate getting that look of confusion/pity from people when they find out we bought her a ticket. It's a mix of, "Why would you do that? Don't you know she could ride for FREE?" and "Sounds like those car seat nuts have scared you into thinking that's necessary. What a waste of money." It makes me feel like we are being SOO extravagant for buying our child a plane ticket. :-(

I have wished for lower anchors on trains too, Brigala! It would be cool if you could also buy or rent a LATCH strap so that you could attach an infant carrier to a seat without having to bring he base.

Does anyone know at what age/size kids can usually fit the lap belt on a plane?

Oh yeah, the looks and the comments! LOL We got a lot of those when we flew with 2 car seats and 2 wild, kids in June.

My son was probably 42lbs 44" or so when we flew and he didn't fit in the plane's seat belt at all. It's a shame because he's too big for a CARES as well. The FAA needs a middle ground for parents who don't want to bring a car seat onboard. I loved having the kids in their seats, especially for take off and landing. I had forgotten how jolting those can be, I would hate to be holding a child for that.
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CTPDMom

Ambassador - CPS Technician
I saw some idiot say she'd done that. I defended your honor when BabyGuyNYC (forgot his actual user name, but Jamie Grayson, posted something you wrote. Did you see that whole thing? People are so ridiculous! Seriously, go report the techs out there saying to turn 12 month olds forward and who install diono seats wrong

I saw he posted the guest piece I did for carseatblog. That was awesome! And, yes, I heard there was discussion of my 'report', though I didn't see it. I have that particular person blocked, and SK didn't have an issue with anything I said so that part was a non-issue. But it was still irritating to deal with. I appreciate whatever it was you said in my defense, that makes me feel really warm and fuzzy. Thank you. Anyone that knows me for 5 minutes knows I care deeply about kids being safe, and I work very hard to that end, but as I said in the blog piece I don't think being a zealot is the way to go about it. :)
 

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