Opinions on latchplate/belt stalk twisting...

During my certification class, I was never quite sure about something in the new curriculum book about latchplate/belt stalk twisting. I just want to know what you guys think.

Under "Problem Solving: Locking Latchplate Slips" (pg 72 if you have the new book) it says...

• 
  Flip the latchplate to change the angle - OR

• Twist the buckle stalk to shorten buckle webbing - OR

• Use a locking clip if it is a lap and shoulder belt as a last resort.

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A little bit down on the same page it says...

• There are three approved steps to fix this condition.

1. flip the latchplate over one time to shorten the seat belt slightly. This changes the locking angle. Always test the seat belt to be sure it remains locked tightly.
2. Twist the buckle stalk if it is flexible.
3. Use a locking clip, if appropriate.

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... so, nothing about OR.

Then on page 74 it talks about twisting the buckle stalk...

• Always use the minimum number of twists, maximum of 3, and check vehicle owner's manual to see if buckle twisting is allowed.

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So, are you allowed to twist the buckle stalk AND the latchplate at the same time... or is it pick one or the other? And, if you think it's ok to do both, would you allow a full 3 twists of the buckle stalk AND the half-twist of the latchplate?

When I asked about this in class, our instructors discussed it and decided it was ok to do both at the same time, but only with a maximum of 2 1/2 twists of the buckle stalk along with the 1/2 twist of the latchplate... so as not to go over the max of 3 twists of the belts. Which makes sense to me... and I do trust the instructors I had... but that's not what the curriculum seems to be saying.

So, what am I misinterpreting??

This is what we were taught:

The belt stalk twisting can be 3 complete turns, and if need be, you can also flip the latchplate a half turn. We were taught in class that it was acceptable to flip it again if with the 180* flip it still wasn't locking - this is with a lap only belt though, locking clip wouldn't be an option...

Order of problem solving:

1. Twist buckle stalk (up to a max of 3 full turns)
2. If latchplate is still slipping after max # of turns of buckle stalk, flip latchplate half turn
3. If that doesn't solve problem, you can use a locking clip, or flip the latchplate again to form a full turn in the case of lap only belt

Honestly, the majority of the time twisting the buckle stalk is all it takes. I haven't yet encountered a vehicle where I've been in the position of having to flip the latchplate a full 360* - sometimes a half turn is still needed, or sometimes the buckle stalk can't be twisted at all or enough to remedy the problem, but the half flip either with or without buckle stalk twisting has fixed a slipping latchplate in the cases I've encountered where buckle stalk twisting alone doesn't prevent the problem.

ignora said:

And, if you think it's ok to do both, would you allow a full 3 twists of the buckle stalk AND the half-twist of the latchplate?

When I asked about this in class, our instructors discussed it and decided it was ok to do both at the same time, but only with a maximum of 2 1/2 twists of the buckle stalk along with the 1/2 twist of the latchplate... so as not to go over the max of 3 twists of the belts.

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Not a tech, but I don't see why having the half twist at the latch plate would reduce the number of twists you can have in the buckle stalk. My understanding is that the limit of 3 full twists has to do with the (measured) progressive weakening of seatbelt webbing when it is twisted. Since the latch plate is on a different piece of webbing, its degree of 'twistiness' would seem to have no effect on the strength of the buckle stalk webbing. Logically, they seem to be independent parameters.

Incidentally, I had to do exactly this to get a solid install with our Radian, which is RF with a center lap belt (i.e. 3 full twists of the buckle stalk, and then a half twist of the latch plate webbing to keep the latch plate from slipping).

Katrin

Nora, I agree with the others and was taught in my class 3 full twists and flip the latchplate as as well when neccesary

We were taught you could do up to 3 twists of the stalk, AND flip the latchplate if necessary. Those two steps solve two different problems, so it's ok to use them in conjunction. If flipping the latchplate doesn't lock the belt, the locking clip is used as a last resort.

Sometimes you have to twist both. For instance, with a locking latchplate (or lightweight) that won't stay locked, you have to flip it a half-turn. But sometimes the male part of the buckle will only fit into the female part of the buckle one way, so you have to turn the buckle a half-turn as well.

In any situation, if you needed to twist the female part to get it out of the belt path or to get a tighter fit, it would be okay to flip the latchplate if the belt is still slipping through the latchplate.

>>>We were taught in class that it was acceptable to flip it again if with the 180* flip it still wasn't locking...I haven't yet encountered a vehicle where I've been in the position of having to flip the latchplate a full 360*<<<

The whole point of flipping the latchplate (lightweight locking or locking) is to force lap/shoulder or lap/tail into a "parallel to the latchplate" position. That's what locks the latchplate. If you flip the latchplate 360*, you're back to the original belt geometry, and the latchplate can still slide, so a full twist on the latchplate side wouldn't work.

Jennifer Matlock
Certified Child Passenger Safety Technician/Instructor
Director, CPSafety

The way i understood it is that the only time you flip the latch plate is if it isn't locking because of such a weird angle. You can twist the buckle up to 3 times just to change where they buckle together to hopefully get a better fit. I don't think you can flip the latch plate more than just over the half turn to change position. Every twist decreases the belt strength thats why they say to do it the minimum times needed to get a good install.