So upset about horrific advice from discharge nurses

I have this mom at my BRU, with an almost 4 yo and newbie preemie twins (with a heartstring-tugging story about surgeries in the womb at 21 weeks, oh, these babies are *miracles*). She needs three across in an Equinox, so I recommend a Maestro, and go out with her to give it a shot. The bases for the infant seats are loose, like, 4 inches side to side. Why? "The nurses told me they should be loose, so they can move freely during the crash and be safer". Also, totally not reclined bases...I'm surprised the babies weren't blue, at least the seats are flat...and there's LATCH in all spots, so THAT was right.
But it just feels like a game of telephone gone wrong. We tell people they don't need to use three firemen and a mighty tite to get a good enough install, and we tell them that cocooning is ok, and it somehow turns into 'A loose install is safer!'.
She said it felt sort of wrong, but almost 4 years had passed since her last infant seat, so she thought maybe it was some new information and she should trust them. Sigh. So much effort put into sweet darling little new ones, and they are put at so much risk for no reason. Makes me mad.

Anyway, Snugride/Maestro/FlexLoc fit surprisingly well, I encouraged her to get her DH out there and get things a lot tighter, after she actually bought the seat (which I almost left in the car after trying it, duh!).

Just had to vent... at least the harnesses looked to be a good fit, so that was positive...

Aw, that's too bad!

Equinox? I spent part of today trying to fit 2 booster seats and 1 adult in one. Nearly impossible. Narrow!

I've heard this a lot. It's really annoying.

Oh my goodness, who knows how many other babies they've discharged in floppy seats like that. And in this case especially - sure, put them through surgery in the womb at 21 weeks and then send them home in unsafe seats.

I'm glad that you were able to help!

In defense of my profession, nurses are just people. They have no training. Many are children (ha ha - compared to me!) with no experience or children of their own. You would think preemies would have had a car seat test and some teaching. However, some places even 'just nurses' do that. Where I work we at least have CPSTs. Still, I get upset because I'll tell parents that their Snugride 22 won't work, then they get the OK at the test so it's fine. It's so frustrating.

Glad mom sought help and you were able to teach her correctly.

Yeah...sigh...it's just so frustrating that more correct info doesn't filter into EVERYONE...moms, nurses, police officers...
It could have been worse, I've seen a strange phenomenon newborns were having their legs put OVER the lap straps (so it's a three point harness, with all that extra wrangling to get their little bodies into the harness so wrong), and I met a nurse from that hospital who said the head nurse absolutely insisted that was the right way. The nurse I talked to asked for proof that was wrong, and I said 'every manual, ever'. I haven't seen that problem lately, I keep hoping that the information filtered back up the chain.

Any chance you could contact the nurse manager of the NICU and/or postpartum unit and offer to do an inservice for the nurses?

Glad you were able to help her get everything installed correctly!

I actually don't think anyone even checked our install at the hospital...or maybe they did and I just didn't notice in all of the commotion. Before they discharged us they asked if we had a car seat at least, but I don't remember them checking the install when they walked us out to the car.

I guess I am a little surprised that some hospitals don't have a CPST on staff, or at least provide information to parents about local CPSTs. I am lucky that I had heard from somewhere that the local fire station did car seat checks...I'm sure a lot of people don't have them checked here :-/

I have to agree with the PP that in defence of my profession, nurses are just people with absolutely no car seat training. Most of the nurses I know have atrocious car seat usage because they don't know any better. On one of the units that I work on, we are expected to check car seats at discharge but receive zero training in how to do so. That being said, nurses should not be offering advice on things that they are not trained it.


I had a patient the other day that left in a taxi with their car seat (took an ambulance to the ER) but chose to hold their child on their lap and set the car seat on the seat next to them rather than install the car seat and put the baby in it. I tried my best to convince them to use it but got nowhere (and the cab driver thought I was the weird one since apparently people don't usually use car seats in cabs and you don't legally have to here). I wish it was one of those instances where they listened to me because of my job title.

I delivered in a hospital that has a CPST but he is only there 4 days a week from 830 - 1230. While it is nice that they at least have one it is a bit limiting. He doesn't come find you, nor does anyone tell you he is there, you have to seek him out. I had him check the install on the base in my car before I delivered, but we brought my daughter home in our other car. When we asked for help the day we left he wasn't there, and the nurses stated they weren't able to help with car seats...which I appreciate much more than bad advice. We also had a Snugride, which now in hindsight I'm not sure fit properly at the time. I even took a carseat course and they really never mentioned fit to child or fit to vehicle. We didn't practice installing. Really we were just walked through a manual of general safety rules, which is better than nothing, but I know so much more now then I knew then.

I am a teacher and every day when I do carpool I watch I would say close to 80% of our k-5 students get into vehicles with no boosters, carseat, etc. Most of their younger siblings are turned around before 1. There isn't a single child over 1 in any vehicle that is still rf. There are 3 families who have rf only infant seats installed forward facing. There is at least 1, 2 year old who rides in an LBB. A handful of families ride with kids on their lap. One family rides 5 across in a pick up truck and some days the 2 youngest stand behind the seat in the cargo area. There are at least 5 kids 3rd grade and below who ride in the front for no reason, and a lot more in 4-5. I have asked my principal if at the very least we can send home a handout with pictures that explains the general rules as most of our families are not English speaking and just may not know the laws and safety recommendations. However, it's not only our non-English speaking families who have kids riding unsafely in cars. But I have been told that it is not my job and not our place as a school to step in. Last year some of us asked if we could organize a safety check event and were told no.

I really wish the general public was more aware of car seat safety.

I live in an upper middle class neighborhood and most of my daughter's friends in THIRD grade don't use boosters. These are highly educated families that all drive nice new cars. They'll spend 10K on summer camps but won't spend $12 for a NBB. I seriously don't understand. They all think it's "cute" that my 9 yo still uses a booster.

mping said:

I live in an upper middle class neighborhood and most of my daughter's friends in THIRD grade don't use boosters. These are highly educated families that all drive nice new cars. They'll spend 10K on summer camps but won't spend $12 for a NBB. I seriously don't understand. They all think it's "cute" that my 9 yo still uses a booster.

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Levi goes to one of the wealthiest schools in the whole district and most *kindergarteners* aren't in boosters, I mostly see kids sitting in the front seat to be dropped off and there's usually a few younger siblings in the back, teeny tinies forward facing, expired infant seats, two year olds in boosters... All in a brand spanking new Suburban with leather seats and a DVD player. Then there's my kid in the Frontier 90 in an almost 14 year old Honda lol. People's priorities are mind boggling to me. We actually just moved (I'm letting Levi finish the year at his old school) but we're a block from the school so I drive past all the time, we're no longer in the 'county' school district, we're in the city school district and I've so far been impressed by what I've seen. I see lots of rear facing convertibles, most of the kids have boosters, and I have yet to see a kid in the front seat.


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joolsplus3 said:

We tell people they don't need to use three firemen and a mighty tite to get a good enough install, and we tell them that cocooning is ok, and it somehow turns into 'A loose install is safer!'.

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Sorry, ignorant question that's a bit OT, but what's cocooning?

joolsplus3 said:

Yeah...sigh...it's just so frustrating that more correct info doesn't filter into EVERYONE...moms, nurses, police officers...
It could have been worse, I've seen a strange phenomenon newborns were having their legs put OVER the lap straps (so it's a three point harness, with all that extra wrangling to get their little bodies into the harness so wrong), and I met a nurse from that hospital who said the head nurse absolutely insisted that was the right way. The nurse I talked to asked for proof that was wrong, and I said 'every manual, ever'. I haven't seen that problem lately, I keep hoping that the information filtered back up the chain.

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Lol. I saw a FB post the other day that the mom posted a photo of her newbie with the legs over the harness and one of the 2 year old as a newbie with the harness on correctly. Gah!

Seriously, people need to take on the responsibility themselves. It's as easy as reading the manual. (At least to put them in the seat correctly.) It's not that easy to find a CPST if you're just a non car seat person or to know that there is such a thing. Somehow it has spread that the fire dept will install your car seat though!

AllieK said:

Sorry, ignorant question that's a bit OT, but what's cocooning?

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You know how rearfacing seats flip backwards toward the back of the car? I think we call it 'rebound' more often now, but it's that. The seat flipping so far up and back in a crash that the child ends up more or less in a cocoon of seat.

I don't like the term much because it implies it's a benefit by design, rather than just what happens.

cookie123 said:

Lol. I saw a FB post the other day that the mom posted a photo of her newbie with the legs over the harness and one of the 2 year old as a newbie with the harness on correctly. Gah!

Seriously, people need to take on the responsibility themselves. It's as easy as reading the manual. (At least to put them in the seat correctly.) It's not that easy to find a CPST if you're just a non car seat person or to know that there is such a thing. Somehow it has spread that the fire dept will install your car seat though!

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On the FB post. One step forward, two steps back.

No FD checks in our county. A really active Doula I like just got certified, and there's me and... almost nothing else in my county. It's what keeps me going to work, trying to see as many new mamas as possible to sing the carseat gospel

joolsplus3 said:

On the FB post. One step forward, two steps back.

No FD checks in our county. A really active Doula I like just got certified, and there's me and... almost nothing else in my county. It's what keeps me going to work, trying to see as many new mamas as possible to sing the carseat gospel

Click to expand...

Like.

I was just thinking of taking some car-seat flyers with me when I go to deliver this August.

The info I got from the hospital and even pediatrician has been somewhat scary. Very old pamphlets with very old recommendations.

When I left the hospital with my first, the nurse tried to help me strap my son into the carrier then walked us to the front door. With my second they just said we could leave. Didn't check that she was even in a seat. No one came to the car either time.

With all the regulations and rules you would think that proper car-seat use would be more of a priority. But, at the same time, it is up the parent to read the manual and be informed and comfortable installing the seat.

I wish people would stick to giving "expert" advise only in the fields they are experts in. Our pedi office, actually has a recording that plays when you are on hold that gives AAP updates like rear face until 2, which is great. But the actual pedi's themselves don't really encourage it. At my DD's 2 year check up the pedi told me that I could now turn DD whenever I felt like it. She didn't ask about the rf limits of the seat or even mention that part of the recommendation. This was totally unprompted. I didn't ask when I could turn her around. I often have a mothers when they find out I'm a teacher, ask me all kinds of strange parenting advice. I don't know why they feel a teacher I should be an experts about all aspects of children. One mom recently asked me if my daughter is rf, when I said yes, she confessed to me that she turned their child around at 16 months, and the pedi (same practice) said it was fine, because it's what the pedi. herself had done.

Pediatricians are not car seat experts, neither are teachers for that matter.

I wish hospitals and birthing centers had a carseat tech. that came around to every room with a rolling test seat to show the parents how to install their seat before leaving and explain to them the current AAP recs. In, addition the families must have the seat checked for both baby correctly harnsessed and base installed correctly before they go. I know there are people who deliver at home but this would probably get most of the gen. pop.