Isofix limits?

Hazelandlucy

Active member
I am always so envious of the foreign seats and the rigid latch/rebound bar/load leg setup. Really wanted to import one, but the majority of the rigid latch/isofix seats are 30+ lbs so I would couldn't use them past 33 -35 lbs with our 65 lb limit. I was just looking at the Cybex Sirona and again wishing I could bring it over and got to thinking - do cars in the UK and Europe not have any isofix limits? They must not because all the Isize seats go to 40 lbs?
 
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ketchupqueen

CPST and ketchup snob
Staff member
The limit in Europe has been 18kg child weight as far as I know, though I believe new cars are going to have higher limits?
 

Adventuredad

New member
Most parents seem to find the rigid Isofix system with a support leg far easier to use than LATCH. When LATCH was introduced there were unfortunately many compromises made.

Isofix seats for the ECE R44 standard have maximum rear facing weight of 18 kg (40 lbs). The car seats themselves can weigh 15 kg. The new R129 European standard, also called "i-Size" is looking more at height of the child than maximum weight.

There are discussions of raising the Isofix limit to 23 kg which would not be a problem strength wise. The margin of error regarding strength of the Isofix connectors is huge. But working together with car manufacturers is very time consuming and they don't want any changes. Except Volvo.

We can see this in the implementation of Isofix. Since 2013 all new cars must have Isofix. Some manufacturers, like VW starting adding this voluntarily in 1997. Thank you VW....!! It's been 25 years from beginning of Isofix to complete implementation.......

According to R129 seat plus child can weigh a total of 33 kg (73 lbs). There aren't many new R129 seats yet but these are typically as heavy as previous Isofix seats. They weigh around 15 kg which means maximum rear facing weight is 18 kg.

There is one great exception and that is the brand new seat Concorde Reverso. It's a really strong and well designed seat using different construction than before. The seat basically consist of a strong aluminum frame with EPP and EPS foam around it. The construction sounds weak but it's very strong, I have personally seen it being abused on the crash rig.

The design is great but the main feature is the low weight of the seat. It only weigh 10 kg (22 lbs) which is unheard of for an Isofix seat. That means that the maximum rear facing weight limit is 23 kg (51 lbs). The seat can be used from birth to around four years of age.

In my personal opinion you don't want to use a Cybex Sirona for many reason. The seat will last rear facing to 18 or perhaps 24 months which is a very short time. At least with our Swedish standard of rear facing to age four or longer. It must then be used forward facing with the shield system, or "impact cushion" as it's also called. A child should never be placed in a forward facing shield system.

Sitting with a huge pillow in the face is warm and uncomfortable but there are also serious safety issues with huge neck loads, submarining, huge abdominal pressure, chest deflation and rollover ejection.

The FF shield systems, not only this seat, is kind of using a loophole in the ECE R44 standard since abdominal pressure isn't measured. We can also see from ADAC testing that the neck loads aren't low, they are sky high.

Crash test dummys are getting very advanced, and obscenely expensive, and there is now the possibility of abdominal sensors. We are trying to add this to the standard so that shield systems can't be used but this is a long process.
 

Hazelandlucy

Active member
Most parents seem to find the rigid Isofix system with a support leg far easier to use than LATCH. When LATCH was introduced there were unfortunately many compromises made.

Isofix seats for the ECE R44 standard have maximum rear facing weight of 18 kg (40 lbs). The car seats themselves can weigh 15 kg. The new R129 European standard, also called "i-Size" is looking more at height of the child than maximum weight.

There are discussions of raising the Isofix limit to 23 kg which would not be a problem strength wise. The margin of error regarding strength of the Isofix connectors is huge. But working together with car manufacturers is very time consuming and they don't want any changes. Except Volvo.

We can see this in the implementation of Isofix. Since 2013 all new cars must have Isofix. Some manufacturers, like VW starting adding this voluntarily in 1997. Thank you VW....!! It's been 25 years from beginning of Isofix to complete implementation.......

According to R129 seat plus child can weigh a total of 33 kg (73 lbs). There aren't many new R129 seats yet but these are typically as heavy as previous Isofix seats. They weigh around 15 kg which means maximum rear facing weight is 18 kg.

There is one great exception and that is the brand new seat Concorde Reverso. It's a really strong and well designed seat using different construction than before. The seat basically consist of a strong aluminum frame with EPP and EPS foam around it. The construction sounds weak but it's very strong, I have personally seen it being abused on the crash rig.

The design is great but the main feature is the low weight of the seat. It only weigh 10 kg (22 lbs) which is unheard of for an Isofix seat. That means that the maximum rear facing weight limit is 23 kg (51 lbs). The seat can be used from birth to around four years of age.

In my personal opinion you don't want to use a Cybex Sirona for many reason. The seat will last rear facing to 18 or perhaps 24 months which is a very short time. At least with our Swedish standard of rear facing to age four or longer. It must then be used forward facing with the shield system, or "impact cushion" as it's also called. A child should never be placed in a forward facing shield system.

Sitting with a huge pillow in the face is warm and uncomfortable but there are also serious safety issues with huge neck loads, submarining, huge abdominal pressure, chest deflation and rollover ejection.

The FF shield systems, not only this seat, is kind of using a loophole in the ECE R44 standard since abdominal pressure isn't measured. We can also see from ADAC testing that the neck loads aren't low, they are sky high.

Crash test dummys are getting very advanced, and obscenely expensive, and there is now the possibility of abdominal sensors. We are trying to add this to the standard so that shield systems can't be used but this is a long process.

I don't know what I was thinking with Sirona, I totally assumed it went until 40 lbs rear facing. Didn't even notice the shield forward facing - but I didn't look at the seat that hard and shouldn't have used that one as my example, lol. I have never seen a shield in real life, but did just see a photo of a UK friend with her 9 month old forward facing in a shield and her 3 yr old in a booster! Ugh, with all the access the UK now has to great seats that I would love and she chooses to do that!

So the latch/isofix limit is 73 lbs in the UK and 65 lbs here? Even on the same car? Those 8 lbs would make a huge difference to me. I really only need to rear face to 40 lbs with my girls as that will definitely get them to 4.

How was 65 lbs chosen for the US? Is that when there were failures in testing? Or were there failures at 75 lbs and the 65 lbs is a buffer? Has latch ever actually failed in a correctly installed carseat in real life?
 

ketchupqueen

CPST and ketchup snob
Staff member
I don't know what I was thinking with Sirona, I totally assumed it went until 40 lbs rear facing. Didn't even notice the shield forward facing - but I didn't look at the seat that hard and shouldn't have used that one as my example, lol. I have never seen a shield in real life, but did just see a photo of a UK friend with her 9 month old forward facing in a shield and her 3 yr old in a booster! Ugh, with all the access the UK now has to great seats that I would love and she chooses to do that!

So the latch/isofix limit is 73 lbs in the UK and 65 lbs here? Even on the same car? Those 8 lbs would make a huge difference to me. I really only need to rear face to 40 lbs with my girls as that will definitely get them to 4.

How was 65 lbs chosen for the US? Is that when there were failures in testing? Or were there failures at 75 lbs and the 65 lbs is a buffer? Has latch ever actually failed in a correctly installed carseat in real life?

65 lbs is based on the strength the lower anchors are required to have. Seats may round up to 70 forward facing with the top tether in use, but without it they can't. I'm aware of at least one lower anchor failure.
 

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