Swedish seat choice: Britax Two-way vs. Axkid Minikid

I'm trying to decide on a Swedish seat for my 2.5 year old and have narrowed it down to the Britax Two-way vs. Axkid Minikid. My primary goal is to get the safest seat possible (within our budget - Minikid is at the top of our price range) and keep him rearfacing as long as possible. (He is a little bigger than average, but not a lot). I also would like a seat that is compact enough that the front seat passenger is not jammed up against the dashboard (as is the case with our Radian without angle adjuster). The seat would primarily be used in our Audi S6 wagon.

As I understand it, the Two-way has a slightly higher height limit so should keep him rear facing a little longer. It is also about $65 cheaper.

On the other hand, the Minikid has passed the Swedish Plus test and apparently is slightly more compact, leaving a few more inches of space for the front seat passenger.

Anyone have or know about either of these seats and care to offer advice? Or, offer another suggestion?

Thanks for any input!

Hi Loony-
You're in the US? If so, if you want the safest seat possible stick to US seats that have been tested in US cars. There used to be a reason that importing foreign seats was the lesser of the evils when you had off-the-charts large but very young children to keep rear facing. That problem doesn't exist anymore. In the last five years the market for larger seats has exploded.

If god forbid you do get into an accident with a foreign seat, the fact that the child was improperly restrained is going into the accident and insurance report, along with the fact that you knew you were doing something illegal. If your child is hurt any number of things could happen... insurance won't pay, you get fined or worse.

Anyhow, I'm sure AdventureDad will come along and answer your questions to help sell you on these. But this is something I wish we wouldn't see anymore on these boards because of the legal, safe options we have now.

I've already communicated with AdventureDad. I was hoping to get input from parents who had experience with these seats. Thanks for your input as well.

Member '_juune' also has experience with Euro seats (I believe she lives there), so maybe you could PM her as I don't know if she's around much.

Be aware that there are complications in installing these seats in US cars. For instance the Two way needs to brace and the Axkid needs to tether- both of which can cause problems with advanced airbags in US cars. If you have a three row vehicle and can put it third, no biggie. But in a small sedan, you may be eliminating the front passenger position from safe use.

What vehicle do you have?

(and that'd be why you're getting recommendations for us seats... We now have seats that last just as long rear facing here, that don't have mandatory install features that interfere with advanced airbags.)

I have a Two Way, it is super easy to install but it does have to be braced on the seat in front of it. It tethers as well. It isn't as well padded as American seats but my dd never complained about being uncomfortable.

I like that it has 4 different ways to route the seatbelt for installation & you can pretty much put it on whatever angle you like it is super easy to install ff as well.

It is the longest lasting rf seat I have (I have a multi tech, radian, free way (older version of the max way), brio & a roundabout 55) and the two way will definitely last longest.

I would look into the Britax Maxfit or any of the Isize seats. Way easier to install and SIP tested. I have used a Dualfix (convertible version of Maxfix) and it was really easy. The Maxi Cosi 2way Pearl looks really nice in person as well.

You can get just as long lasting seats here, but I personally think the rigid latch/load leg is the safest way to rear face. I would stay away from seats with multiple tethers or a complicated belt setup.

Thanks for all the replies! In response, and a few more questions…

ketchupqueen:
We have a 2002 Audi S6 wagon. I’ve read the manuals for both seats and am aware of the need to tether and/or brace. I called the Audi dealership and checked with a tech on potential problems with tethering and the airbag sensor. He said the only sensor in our car is located in the middle of the seat, “where your butt goes” and the tethering would not interfere. (We would need to tether around the seat bight because the seat rail cannot be threaded around and he said this would be okay.) I hadn’t considered bracing might be a problem. I will check on that too.

finn
Thanks for the review on Two-way!

Hazelandlucy
Will check into maxfit and Isize. What does “SIP tested” mean?

Hazelandlucy and ketchupqueen
I would love to buy a US seat that accomplishes my goals! I wonder if I’m missing some options. The ones I know of are Foonf and Diono Radian/Rainier/Pacifica. The highest weight limit among these is 50 lbs (Foonf and Rainier/Pacifica). Foonf gives 43” for max height limit and the Diono seats don’t list a limit, but talking with their customer service they told me 44”. In contrast the Swedish options go to 55 lbs. Britax Two-way will go to 49 - 51” max height, Minikid to 47 - 49”. So, That’s 5 more lbs and at least 3-4 in. longer rearfacing in the Swedish seats. But, are there US options I’m overlooking? It would be way easier and straightforward to buy a US one so I’m all for that if there are comparable options!! Please let me know!

Also, my other concern is a compact seat - A friend of mine has the Foonf and says it’s ridiculously tall and blocks her vision out the back of the car in a way she feels is potentially dangerous. I just noticed the Cleck Fllo which looks to be shorter - not sure if there are downsides to this model though?

We have two Radians already which I really like except for the amount of front to back space they take up (much improved with angle adjuster though). However, again, these seats will not rearface nearly as long as the Swedish options it seems.

I must say I totally prefer my Swedish seats over my US ones for rear facing, they are just so much easier and have a far more solid install. They also sit lower than the radian so you can still see out the back & I have had my radian (with angle adjuster) fall over twice while going around corners, despite having a super tight install, so I have lost all faith in it.

My daughter will definitely outgrow her US seats rf before her Swedish ones but it's a moot point as she is almost 4 and has just turned ff. She now rides in an original frontier which we both love

I should add that Swedish seats are legal here

Unfortunately, someone at the dealership won't know what will or won't affect this. You'd need to call Audi corporate and manage to get hold of an engineer who is familiar with the design of the airbags and the testing done...

Can you give me the age and stats of the child in question, and let me know what your goals are? Because that 5 lbs. is unnecessary for most kids... Also, standing height limits are not necessarily an accurate representation of longevity of height. The Two Way is the tallest, and it lasts approximately the same amount of height rear-facing as a Graco Size4Me/MySize/Headwise, etc. (And I think the Britax Boulevard and Advocate ClickTight may also be that tall... or even taller?)

Thanks, ketchupqueen!

My son is 2.5 yrs old, a bit larger than average (both height and weight equally).

My goal is to keep him rearfacing as long as possible (through age 5 at the very least, but if there's any way to go longer I'd want to) in the safest seat possible (I like our radians in that they have a steel frame - I don't care that they are heavy). I also want a seat that will allow good visibility for the driver and appropriate space for front seat passengers. We also have an 8 month old daughter and will likely pass the seat along to her. Since the radians allow forward facing with harness to a high weight I don't need that capability in the seat we buy now because our son could go back into a radian when he reaches that point and our daughter could move into the one we're researching now.

I understand that kids often outgrow on height before weight so that a limit of 55 lbs may not make a difference vs 50 lbs. And, I know that what really matters for height is seated height so this means the child's proportions also figure in as well as standing height. I'd say that my son is pretty average in his proportions, not especially long legged or long torso-ed. So, that's why I thought the standing height estimates were relevant to consider - if one seat has a taller standing height estimate than another I would assume it also proportionally has a higher seated height limit?

I also know that different seats have different criteria for when the kid grows out (e.g. head 1 in below top of seat or ears at top of seat or whatever it is for the particular seat). I would assume that the criterion for the particular seat is what is used to estimate height limits so that even if the criteria for growing out may vary across seats it would still be relevant to compare the given standing height limit estimate of the manufactures. so, I would expect that seats with higher standing height limits would generally last longer.

I quickly checked out the Graco seats you suggested. It seems they only have a weight limit of 40 lbs? I can't see how that would last as long as a seat that goes to 55 lbs. Even if 5 lbs doesn't make a difference, I would think 15 lbs must? i checked Britax Advocate too - it also only has a 40 lb limit, although states a 49" height limit. I looked up average height/weight for kids and it seems that when a kid is 49" they would be more like 55 lbs on average, so way over the Britax weight limit, so for that seat it's the weight limit that's the factor.

Anyway, like I said I would love to buy a US seat if there's one that meets our needs, and I am still new to all this stuff so oping there is a good option I'm overlooking. Open to suggestions from anyone! Thanks!

Personally, I'd buy a U.S. seat that will take him to at least 4, and then re-evaluate at that time if he still fits or if he needs something to rear face longer. There may be new seats out that will work for you then, or consider importing then. Then sell or pass down the seat you bought.

Unless there is a problem with the Radian your son currently rides in, I would stick with it until he outgrows it, then reassess. He will likely fit for another 18 months or longer, and lots of new seats can come to market in that time. When my daughter was born the highest limit RF US seat was 35lbs, but we bought a Radian with a 45lb RF limit before she turned two! There is talk of a 50lb RF seat being available soon, and who knows what else will come along after that. In short, buy what you need when you need it. Trying to guess what you'll need years in the future doesn't work out very well in many cases!

Children usually slow down. Most children outgrow almost all seats by height before weight. And that's seated height. Not height limit. Even for proportional kids. In both directions- your radian is outgrown by most kids by height at 55-60 lbs or so. Standing height limits being higher do NOT necessarily mean taller seated heights. A look through the measurements database will confirm that. Some companies wildly overinflate those guidelines while others put too-low values on them, seemingly at random.

When you say slightly taller and heavier than average, do you mean just over the 50th percentile? I'd like to chart his projected growth for you to demonstrate how it slows down. Many, many 60th percentile kids would make it past 4 in current US convertibles.

Remember that heavy doesn't necessarily mean safe. In fact, for rear facing, the opposite is true. Rear facing tethering may actually be counterproductive in a heavy seat without bracing or a load leg with a large child (to the floor, Australian tethering would have a benefit, but only Britax allows that here currently.)

I agree that the Radian you have will last a long, long time. My off the charts for height, 85th for weight, extremely long torsoed daughter lasted to 3 1/2 in it. Many smaller kids than her make it past 4, past 5, even to 6. However, most of us forward face before then if the child requests, because the real world benefits diminish by that point as forward facing and boostering catch up in safety so to speak and returns diminish.

I'll let OP decide on preferred seat. A few thoughts:

I must say I totally prefer my Swedish seats over my US ones for rear facing, they are just so much easier and have a far more solid install. They also sit lower than the radian so you can still see out the back & I have had my radian (with angle adjuster) fall over twice while going around corners, despite having a super tight install, so I have lost all faith in it.

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Things are moving forward in US, although very slowly, regarding better seats. After having lived in US for 15 years I think it's a bit sad to see that Sweden had better seats in 1995 than US has today. Hopefully that will change at some point.

On a side note..... Diono is actually trying to have their Radian approved for the European standard but are having lots of issues. What they are trying to do is very interesting and I stay in regular contact with them regarding the project. They want to approve Radian to 25 kg rear facing but without a support leg. And also without tethers. This has never been done before so it's very interesting.

Having a seat approved to 25 kg without tethers would in my opinion be a nice selling points for many parents since installation is far easier. The ECE R44 standard is more strict than the US FVMSS 213 regarding rebound. It's therefore not possible, or at lest extremely difficult, to pass testing to 25 kg (55 lbs) without tether straps.

Diono has also talked about passing the Plus Test to 25 kg. No support leg, no tethers and passing Plus Test to 25 would be fantastic. Without saying too much it was clear from previous conversations that there would be some issues. The seat is now being redesigned for Europe so it will be slimmer, have better lockoffs, etc.

One huge issue with Radian is that it often needs obscene amounts of space. Even with the angle adjuster. A slimmer seat but still with tall seat shell would be welcome. I really hope they can make the seat work and reach their goals. Exciting!!!

If god forbid you do get into an accident with a foreign seat, the fact that the child was improperly restrained is going into the accident and insurance report, along with the fact that you knew you were doing something illegal. If your child is hurt any number of things could happen... insurance won't pay, you get fined or worse.

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This is of course nonsense and nothing but a myth. Everyone in a car is insured, even unrestrained children. There is no problem to get seats reimbursed after an accident. We have done so several times for US parents without any issues.

Be aware that there are complications in installing these seats in US cars. For instance the Two way needs to brace and the Axkid needs to tether- both of which can cause problems with advanced airbags in US cars.

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Tethering to a front seat has no impact on airbag function. Same goes with leaning on front seat. Yet another popular myth. We have been installing seats this way for the past 50 years and it works very well.

We now have seats that last just as long rear facing here, that don't have mandatory install features that interfere with advanced airbags.

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The installation does not interfere with any airbag function although this seem to be a popular myth. The US airbags are not any more advanced than other airbags. They are more powerful due to FVMSS 208 which assumes any US person is not belted and the airbag must protect from the full impact. In Europe and other places we assume that passengers in front seat are wearing a seat belt so the airbag power is lower. It is after all 2015 and laws regarding seat belts have been in in effect for a very long time.

Manufacturers of safety products in US have an unfortunate habit of forbidding everything which is not mandated by law or federal guidelines. This is understandable due to the legal system but unfortunate. There is no upside for a manufacturer to give something away which they don't have to. If bracing isn't required by law then don't allow it. If tethering isn't allowed by law then don't allow it. Allowing these things, which have no impact in airbags, is no upside for manufacturers and therefore often not allowed.

I would look into the Britax Maxfit or any of the Isize seats. Way easier to install and SIP tested.

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I'm confused about the "SIP tested". Max-Fix 2 is a nice seat which has the same seat shell as Max-Way and it's very easy to install with Isofix. It will last a year or more longer height wise compared to Dualfix which has a shorter seat shell.

MF2 is not "SIP tested" more than any any other seat. The fact is that any good rear facing seat has excellent SIP. This is due to pre-impact braking and forward momentum. MF2 is approved for the ECE R44 standard which does not require any formal side impact testing. The manufacturers do of course do extensive testing themselves.

MF2 has the same seat shell as Britax Max-Way which is installed with seat belt. MW has passed the ultra strict Swedish Plus test up to 25 kg while MF2 has passed to 18 kg which is maximum for Isofix seats.

I called the Audi dealership and checked with a tech on potential problems with tethering and the airbag sensor. He said the only sensor in our car is located in the middle of the seat, “where your butt goes” and the tethering would not interfere.

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Tethering does not interfere or have any impact on airbags.

Adventuredad said:

Tethering to a front seat has no impact on airbag function. Same goes with leaning on front seat. Yet another popular myth. We have been installing seats this way for the past 50 years and it works very well.

The installation does not interfere with any airbag function although this seem to be a popular myth. The US airbags are not any more advanced than other airbags. They are more powerful due to FVMSS 208 which assumes any US person is not belted and the airbag must protect from the full impact. In Europe and other places we assume that passengers in front seat are wearing a seat belt so the airbag power is lower.

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This is interesting to me, because until now you've constantly asserted that airbags in Europe and the U.S. are identical, and now you're admitting they're different, which actually helps prove the point.

I've explained before--and now I'll do it again--that "advanced" doesn't mean "better than Europe" when referring to airbags. "Advanced Air Bags" refer to a newer generation of airbags, mandated by Federal law, that is "advanced" compared to what we had before. Specifically because of fast, hard-deploying airbags of the past, manufactures are now required to make airbags that deploy with different speed and intensity depending on factors like whether the front seat passenger is belted in, how heavy the person is, and where the person is sitting in relation to the airbag. This information is determined by various sensors, some of which are in the seat track or under the seat, and can, indeed, be impacted by an object leaning on the seat back, something pulling on a seat leg, or something pushing up under the seat.

The technology used and restrictions will vary by manufacturer. That's why some vehicles are okay with bracing/tethering and others might not be. It depends how their airbag systems work. It's also not likely an issue in cars with no airbags or first-generation airbags, and probably not an issue if no one is using the front seat that would be affected. But it's blatantly false to give a blanket statement that tethering or bracing won't affect anything.

Oh my, I seem to have reignited the airbag/tethering debate. hot button issue! Sorry about that I believe everyone here has the safety of our children as their utmost concern and the issue is a disagreement about how to best achieve that goal. It seems to be a complex issue, likely depending on specific vehicles. I don't feel I know enough yet to settle on my own opinion and appreciate the input of all. Thank you!

The suggestions to wait on buying a seat or get one that's good for the near future now and see what options are available later are well taken. Thank you! Our situation is that although our two radians work fine for my 2.5 yr old right now (but thanks for warning about the tip-over! Will watch out!) we need another seat for him so we won't have to be constantly switching seats here and there with our nanny's car. I want to move our baby up to the other radian and the nanny will actually now soon be taking both kiddos out so to make things a lot easier we would get TWO new seats now. I think it's worth reconsidering the US options and see what solution would come by that route that might address out needs for the near future. It occurred to me that it may be possible to get two new US seats for not much more than one sweedish seat would cost. if we got one sweedish seat now it may last to keep our son rearfacing to my goal but we'd still need to buy another seat for our baby. I could take a gamble that by the time our son grows out of the US option we get now there might be a new US seat for us then that's chesper than swedish, or we get one then. On the other hand there may be an argument that the Swedish options are just safer right now so if safety is my ultimate goal (which it is! And I know is for everyone here) then maybe I should get one if those now. If course this brings us back to the airbag controversy....

I think I will step back and see what US options there might be and then come back to make a final decision whether to go that way or import. It seems it might be best for me to start a new thread looking for advice on US seats so I will do that and post stats on my kids sizes and our vehicles there.

Thank you again so much to all of you who have taken your time to share your knowledge with me. I am grateful for the input from all!

What I meant by SIP, is side impact protection. The Isize regulation seats will have been tested for that. The Max Fix is not an Isize seat, but the Maxi Cosi 2way Pearl is.

Adventuredad said:

This is of course nonsense and nothing but a myth. Everyone in a car is insured, even unrestrained children. There is no problem to get seats reimbursed after an accident. We have done so several times for US parents without any issues.

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You scoffed at the legal system in the US in your post. So, I assume you are familiar with US insurance companies (many of which do business in Canada as well) and know that some will deny claims for anything, and put customers through hell even to obtain reimbursement for expenses that should be covered. The legal exceptions to coverage can be considerable, and vary significantly from one company to another and from state to state.

Tethering to a front seat has no impact on airbag function. Same goes with leaning on front seat. Yet another popular myth. We have been installing seats this way for the past 50 years and it works very well.



The installation does not interfere with any airbag function although this seem to be a popular myth. The US airbags are not any more advanced than other airbags.

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Some auto manufacturers in the USA do prohibit certain types of contact with the front passenger seat back. At least one (Chrysler) already prohibits a swedish-style RF tethered carseat in a couple 2015 vehicles and more companies may follow. In fact, this is the main reason that some new Britax convertible seats no longer allow use of a rear-facing tether.

Manufacturers of safety products in US have an unfortunate habit of forbidding everything which is not mandated by law or federal guidelines. This is understandable due to the legal system but unfortunate. There is no upside for a manufacturer to give something away which they don't have to. If bracing isn't required by law then don't allow it. If tethering isn't allowed by law then don't allow it. Allowing these things, which have no impact in airbags, is no upside for manufacturers and therefore often not allowed.

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Bracing and rear-facing tethering (Swedish method) can directly affect the safety of the occupant of the front passenger seat. You can easily test this yourself in various late model vehicles in the USA. Sit in the front passenger seat. Increase or decrease the force you place on the seat and shift around on various parts of the seat and notice when the passenger airbag light is on or off. The sensors that detect the front passenger occupant may vary from one vehicle to another and affect if the airbag is deployed and with how much force. If the sensors are fooled with more or less force, then the airbag may not deploy with the correct force, or not deploy at all, placing the occupant at greater risk.

A carseat that is braced against the front vehicle seat could certainly cause this in some vehicles, and the added tension of a rear-facing tether makes it more likely. In other vehicles, different types of sensors may be used and a braced/tethered rear-facing carseat may not be a problem. Like all things, parents must consult the owners manual of their vehicle and child seat to determine if bracing and/or rear-facing tethering is allowed. There is not a simple answer of YES or NO in this case, it depends on the particular situation.

http://www.chop.edu/pages/air-bags#.VPuJIvnF98E

http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicle+Shoppers/Air+Bags/Advanced+Frontal+Air+Bags

There is not always a conspiracy in the USA among the government, manufacturers and legal system to put our children in danger, as you often suggest. While this does happen in publicized cases from time to time, there is often a very good reason when warnings are given within instruction manuals. This is one of them. Ultimately, those manuals are far more reliable than hearsay and conspiracy theories you find on the internet.