This is for my Friend

Her dd is 8 months 18lbs and 24 inches tall (I cant get torso til sunday) Her mother in law got the baby a new AOE 3 in 1. I recommened for her to take that seat back and get an Evenflo Truimph Advance (they cant spend for britax) but she wants me to try to install that for her she tried and the babys head fall forward and she cries so right now she has it FFacing. If the baby is tiny torso wise and I can get a good install with the AOE would it be ok to keep it or should she have her mother in law take it back and get the ETA Im not sure what kind of car she has buts its a 96-98 Toyota DX is what it says on the back of the car she doesnt know either, right now the only seat belt that works is the middle back though the outboard sides are broke. I have to be able to get the seat in the middle. She said she has the middle belt that has the thing that you pull to get tight not the ones that retract into. I can get a pic of the car in a little bit.

A 96-98 Toyota DX could be a Corolla, I'm thinking? At any rate, all the Toyotas I know of (my mom drives a 96 Camry) lock at the shoulderbelt retractor. You pull the shoulderbelt all the way out and then feed it back in; it should make clicking noises and not be able to be pulled out again.

That little one DEFINITELY needs to be rear-facing still, not forward-facing no matter what.

Have you tried the AOE without the base?

Have you tried a pool noodle or tightly rolled towel in the vehicle seat bight (crease) to recline the AOE a bit more so baby's head doesn't flop? Crying in the seat isn't necessarily an indicator of a problem, but if it's not at an angle of at least 35-40 degrees (45 degree recline is what's necessary for newborns, but this baby is older and might not need that anymore) it does need to be fixed.

Might be a dumb question, but are you sure you're using the correct (rear-facing) belt path?

If the AOE can be taken back for an EFTA, do it, for sure. It will last sooo much longer. My daughter would have been too big for an AOE harnessed by age 3, but she would have only outgrown an EFTA around age 6. Sure, the AOE has booster mode, but it's not a great booster at all, and the harness is outgrown YEARS sooner, so it's truly not worth the $$. Both the EFTA and the AOE rear-face to 35 pounds, tell her to keep that babe rear-facing as long as possible, since it's so much safer.

The ETA would probably fit her child for much longer, but the AOE isn't a terrible seat. It IS terrible though to have an 8 month old FF !! The baby's head may be flopping forward because she doesn't have the recline angle adjusted properly, or maybe her vehicle seats are so angled that she needs a pool noodle (or tightly rolled towel if that's all she has right now).

Sounds like the center has a lap belt only, with a locking latchplate. I actually think those are often the easiest for carseat installations. Whichever seat she decides on, just make sure that baby is RFing again as soon as possible--and try to help the mom understand why RF is safest!!

The only reason why she FFaced it is that she doesnt know how to work it. The baby and the seat are gone with in laws til sunday. I havent even tried to look at it. I wont be able to til sunday. The outboard seat belts do not work at all though. I have to install in the middle. Do you think the ETA would fit in that car? That way she wouldnt have to get another seat til booster age.

Previous poster is right, the center would be a lapbelt that locks at the latchplate (sliding part). The outboard seats are lap/shoulderbelts that lock at the retractor. So you're saying the retractor is broken on both outboard seats? The belts don't retract or lock at all?

I can't guarantee the EFTA will fit in the center, but I can say that the AOE with the base is difficult to install in many cases, and with or without the base getting a good recline angle can sometimes be a bear. Pool noodles or a tightly rolled towel really are almost necessary with that seat with younger rear-facing kids. The EFTA will last YEARS longer, though, and will definitely get a child to a safe, appropriate booster age (where the AOE harness probably will not).

My friend said that the seat belts in the back dont work so Im not sure what she means. If I can buckle them and they dont lock could I use a locking clip?

Only if the emergency locking mechanism is not broken. Meaning, if you yank on the shoulderbelt and it does lock up, it will lock in a crash and you can use a locking clip to keep it locked in the meantime. But if the retractor is broken so that it won't lock up at all, no, using a locking clip is not safe because a locking clip is only a pre-crash positioner. That means that the locking clip will likely break or bend and fly off during the crash; the clip's only purpose is to hold the belt tight before the crash occurs, then during the crash the belt's own locking mechanism kicks in to restrain the carseat.

Your friend may be confused; she might think because she can't figure out how to lock them to hold the carseat tight, that the belts are broken. Let's hope that's the case, and you can help her figure it out.

The center lapbelt spot is usually the easiest spot to get a good install though, because there's no shoulderbelt to mess with. A lapbelt will lock on it's own, not via a retractor, but via the sliding part on the lapbelt. You just pull it tight while pushing down on the carseat and it's tight.

My honda has that kind of center belt and for the sake of me I can not install anything there and so does my mil towncar I couldnt get anything in that center either. The only center lap belts I can get tight are the ones that retract back into the seat even thats seems harder for me that the lap shoulder belts. Ill give it a look on Sunday. Ill test the seat belt all I do is yank on the shoulder part and if it locks then its ok if not then I have to get it in the middle if yanking does work could she drive I sit and use the belt and she slams on the brakes would that work too? Im not sure if I can yank hard enough I know my seats in my honda will lock if we slam on the brakes but I cant yank and get them to lock though.

No, you can't sit in back and pretend to be a retractor.

Please ask your friend to find a CPST. This seems like a very dangerous situation.

That the problem we dont have any in this small town. So I cant sit in the back buckle the seat belt have her drive to the stop sign and brake hard and make sure it locks? How would that make me a retractor?

I think she was just confused by your wording. You can certainly test the retractor that way if you want.

Yes -- I misunderstood and I apologize. Is there no CPST within driving distance at all, though? I know you are trying to help, but it seems as if there are a lot of issues here.

First things first, the baby is not only too young/small to be ff'ing, the baby is nowhere near meeting the minimums of the seat to be ff'ing - 34" and 22 lbs are the requirement to use the AOE ff'ing. If baby's head is dropping forward rf'ing, I see no way possible that baby's head isn't falling forward even worse being ff'ing - the most reclined position can't be used when the seat is installed ff'ing, and 80% of the seat has to be touching the vehicle seatback, so quite often only the most upright position will work.

You'll likely need a towel that's tightly rolled to get a good recline. Definitely remove the base, it makes it much easier. The front of the cover on the 3in1's is attached my little elastic bungees. Unhook them from one side at the front, and it will allow you to see the belt path and reach it easily. The lap belt will need to be threaded in front of the buckle - as in towards baby's knees. The best method for tightening a lap belt with the 3in1, is to feed the tail of the lap belt up through the side of the cover, so that it's back through part of the belt path, and poking straight up the side. Then put pressure on the seat and pull on the tail of the lap belt and it should snug right up.

The rolled towel needs to be placed before you tighten the seat up, and you may need to expirement with a few different sized towels to get one that gives you the right amount of recline. Make sure you're pushing the towel or pool noodle right into the edge of the vehicle seat bite, and have it rolled up tightly. It needs to fit between the seatbelt and the buckle stalk and can't be any longer than that.

Hope that helps some. As for the seatbelts, if your friend is convinced that the outboard ones don't work, then install the seat in the center and have her take her car to the dealer to get the outboard ones looked at. It could be she doesn't understand how they work, but in the absence of a tech to tell for sure & if you're not certain, I'd just put the seat in the center & tell her to take it to a mechanic.

You should be able to get a perfectly good install removing the base and tightening the lap belt the way I described though. And I'm in agreement with the others - I'd highly encourage her getting another seat. The 3in1 seats are a huge pain in the butt and are much more money than they're worth considering that they're outgrown so young and will have to be replaced anyways. The harness is a pain to tighten, the top headrest position isn't usable in harness mode, and the seat is just a general PITA to install until you've done a zillion of them - and even then some vehicles are still a huge pain. I really hate the 3in1 seats, yet they're easily the most popular around here. Probably 80% of parents buy them I'd guess... I've never seen a scenera at a check, never seen a triumph, have done a couple private checks with titan's and have seen a few britax's. Other than that, every.single.convertible has been a 3in1 (2 were the enspira, the rest were the AOE or EB.)

I guess I was having a lack of sleep brian not working I just tested her outboard passenger side seat and it didnt lock by pulling it all the way out and letting it back in but it did lock when I yanked on it so all is good there. At least I know I have another spot to install. So I must use a locking clip. Im not sure if she wants to switch the seat to an ETA or not yet but I think its a good idea does anyone know if the ETA is close to a Evenflo Victory base wise I know its wider and taller. We have no way to test the seat before they buy though. I thought bout trying my Evenflo Victory in her car to get an idea.

chickabiddy said:

Yes -- I misunderstood and I apologize. Is there no CPST within driving distance at all, though? I know you are trying to help, but it seems as if there are a lot of issues here.

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thats ok no cpst places except 2 hours away and when I looked them up they dont say our countie is included, but I tested the seat belt passenger side it locked when yanked so locking clip needs to be used. I just want to make sure that the seat she uses will last and the AOE wont get past 2 or 3 but her dd is very small not even in the 3% but it really depends on torso though, she might hit a growth spurt too. Is there another covertaibe beside britax that has hight slots?

Britax, Sunshine Kids, Recaro, Evenflo Triumph Advance--those ones have the highest top slots, but are all pretty pricey, aside from the EFTA. Since she's on the small side, maybe going with something like a $40 Cosco Scenera for now would be good, and then getting something else later when she outgrows that? The Scenera is everything good that the AOE is, minus the crappy booster mode and high price tag. I do believe the EFTA will be quite a bit wider than the Victory.

scatterbunny said:

Britax, Sunshine Kids, Recaro, Evenflo Triumph Advance--those ones have the highest top slots, but are all pretty pricey, aside from the EFTA. Since she's on the small side, maybe going with something like a $40 Cosco Scenera for now would be good, and then getting something else later when she outgrows that? The Scenera is everything good that the AOE is, minus the crappy booster mode and high price tag. I do believe the EFTA will be quite a bit wider than the Victory.

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I dont know if mil will want to spend 40 now then another in a few years. If she can take the AOE back and then get the ETA she said her mil spent 130.00 on the AOE and walmart here has the ETA for 129.99.

Yes, the EFTA for $130 is a way better seat than the AOE for $130.

But $40 for a Cosco Scenera now and then $80 for a Cosco Apex or similar prices for a Graco CarGo or Evenflo Bolero or Generations later would work fine, too.

Mainly I'm just giving options because the install seems so difficult that I want you/her to have a few seats to try, in case one is easier to install than another.

Where have you tried to find local techs? NHTSA locator?

scatterbunny said:

Yes, the EFTA for $130 is a way better seat than the AOE for $130.

But $40 for a Cosco Scenera now and then $80 for a Cosco Apex or similar prices for a Graco CarGo or Evenflo Bolero or Generations later would work fine, too.

Mainly I'm just giving options because the install seems so difficult that I want you/her to have a few seats to try, in case one is easier to install than another.

Where have you tried to find local techs? NHTSA locator?

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Ok the NHTSA is were I went. I have the Generations so I can always try it to see if it will work in her car just to see and then try the Scenera too.
When RFacing you push the top of the shell into the seat?

The NHTSA locator sucks. Try this one: https://ssl13.cyzap.net/dzapps/dbza...tegory1=TAB9_CERTSEARCH&Webid=SAFEKIDSCERTSQL

When rear-facing, to install, I stand behind the seat and push down with my hand in the seating portion and push down and back with my body on the top of the seat shell while I use my other hand to tighten the belt. To check if the install is tight enough you pull at the belt path with one hand; it should move less than one inch at the belt path. It's OK if a rear-facing seat moves at the top of the shell; that is normal for most seats.