Can a car seat be installed too tightly? Roundabout g4

Nedra

Car-Seat.org Ambassador
My father-in-law has been resistant to our instructions that our daughter's car seat should be installed more tightly. When I install it in their vehicle, there is no movement, and I am certain that my father-in-law is capable of the same. When we had the car seat checked by a tech, she raved about how good of an install we had and my FIL never questioned that tighter is better. Recently, when my husband has talked to him about needing to get the seat a bit tighter, though, he has claimed that it is "all over the manual" that you shouldn't tighten the car seat too much and that there should be some movement.

I don't have the manual for the roundabout g4, but I found the manual for the roundabout 55 and couldn't find anything in it about there being a danger to a tight latch install.

Does anyone know if there is truth to what he is saying? If not, do you know what in the manual is confusing him? I already had to talk him down from FF-ing her because of that dang "only use in the rear-facing position with infants under 20 lbs..." Wording. He was convinced that she wasn't safe RF anymore and I had to talk him through the manual and point out to him that it says 5-40 lbs elsewhere.

I really want to get them a clicktight convertible to make it super easy on them, but they are resistant to change. Argh. For the time being, I'd appreciate any advice anyone can offer to help on the "overtightening" thing. FYI, I am not a bodybuilder or anything -- I never win arm wrestling matches or anything....we're not talking about an obscene amount of force, just enough to get a rock-solid install and no movement. I do "pull from the inside" if that makes sense, and my FIL is extremely resistant to that trick because it's not in the manual and wasn't used by the tech at our lesson.
 
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safeinthecar

Moderator - CPS Technician
Grab your father's hand and shake it like you are saying hello... If you have less than an inch of movement when you shake the seat with the same amount of force as you used to shake your father's hand, then the install is fine.
 

Kecia

Admin - CPST Instructor
Unless you're using some sort of mechanical device and over-tightening the seatbelt to the point where you might break the retractor - you can't install a carseat too tightly using normal person strength and installation techniques.

Putting your full weight into the seat (if necessary), using the reclining seatback trick, etc. is NOT going to have some unintended detrimental consequence. If the parent or caregiver can quickly and easily achieve a rock-solid install by doing something that isn't difficult for them (such as putting a knee into the seat or using the reclining seatback trick), that's fine. But if they are huffing and puffing and the best they can get it is to the point where it moves just a little bit (specifically 1" or less from side-to-side and front-to-back), that's fine too.

We don't want parents and caregivers to think that anything less than a rock-solid install is bad or unsafe - because it's not. It's ACCEPTABLE. But there is nothing bad about a rock-solid install if you can achieve it without too much work.

The truth is that even a carseat properly installed rock-solid pre-crash is going to move a LOT under severe crash loads as the seatbelt or LATCH webbing stretches. It's going to move more than most people would ever imagine. In a severe crash the difference between a carseat that was installed rock-solid and one that was tight but still moved just a little bit at the beltpath isn't that great. Both seats are still going to move quite a bit under those extreme crash forces.

Obviously, you don't want to start out in a crash with a seat that is already loose but tightening the seatbelt an extra 1 cm (which is often the difference between a little bit of movement and no movement at all) isn't going to drastically impact crash outcomes.

Still, in general - the tighter you can couple the child restraint to the vehicle, the better. That is why rigid LATCH is so ideal.

Bottom line: if parent or caregiver can get it rock-solid with reasonable effort, great. If they best they can do with reasonable effort results in an install with less than 1" of movement when tested at the beltpath - that is perfectly acceptable.

I understand that in this case we're not talking about some random kid - we're talking about YOUR child so, obviously, you want to protect her to the best of your abilities. How tight is the seat when he installs it? If it moves less than 1" when you test at the beltpath then I wouldn't lose any sleep over it but I would reassure him that there's no problem with it being a little bit tighter. HTH!
 
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Nedra

Car-Seat.org Ambassador
Bottom line: if parent or caregiver can get it rock-solid with reasonable effort, great. If they best they can do with reasonable effort results in an install with less than 1" of movement when tested at the beltpath - that is perfectly acceptable.

I understand that in this case we're not talking about some random kid - we're talking about YOUR child so, obviously, you want to protect her to the best of your abilities. How tight is the seat when he installs it? If it moves less than 1" when you test at the beltpath then I wouldn't lose any sleep over it but I would reassure him that there's no problem with it being a little bit tighter. HTH!

I haven't actually seen the seat recently myself. The last time he did an install that felt loose to me, it was months ago. But my husband has been concerned with some of the installs he's seen and had a conversation in which my FIL countered by saying that the manual told him it was unsafe to have no movement. I don't even put a knee in it -- just press a bit with one hand and pull tightly with the other. My FIL moves the seat more often than I do, though, and so I think he is just less enthusiastic about a tight install.

I am also always really confused about the 1" rule. The bottom of the roundabout is grippy and the seat itself is not light. So while I can imagine that a completely uninstalled seat would slide 1 inch or more when pushed with a non-dominant hand, I cannot imagine the entire seat sliding by a full inch if the seat has been installed with LATCH. What i frequently have seen, however, is that when I grab the seat near the belt path, the place where I put my hand will ROCK in an arc that is more than 1 inch. Does that make sense? I'm still grabbing at the belt path -- I know that the headrest area of the seat is allowed to move -- but it is like the foot area that is moving back and forth, the grippy base isn't sliding, just rocking.

I hope some of that makes sense. I really just want to out us all out of our misery and get him a clicktight. I am hoping that we will get them to move in that direction soon.
 

joolsplus3

Admin - CPS Technician
Rocking doesn't count towards the 1". Maybe check the LATCH strap? I usually find the seat is installed acceptably when it's basically twanging like a guitar string (or a bit looser, basically no slack and tight). Give it a twang next time you see it, along with the gentle handshake method of testing. Even a seat with a rubbery bottom will move an inch if it's installed poorly...I give seats a shake all the time at work for people and there's absolutely no question when one is too loose (I can't fathom why people don't try harder, truly...)

It's kind of unfortunate that he's got the impression a seat is supposed to move. He was supposed to "get" Kecia's description that you don't need to take excessive measures to get it rock solid, not that it's unsafe if it doesn't move.
If the tech was impressed, that's a really good sign that it was good. I know not all techs are as passionate as we are here, but we all do learn what a good install looks and feels like in our class.
 

Nedra

Car-Seat.org Ambassador
Thanks Julie -- with the guitar twang analogy, is the twang representing the force with which I shove the seat? Or are you saying the amount of acceptable movement is equal to the reverberations of the string(s). I don't have a guitar handy but when I find one I can experiment.

I will take a look at his seat the next time I get a chance. They do daycare for us during the day and they usually pick her up and drop her off when I am at work (my husband is at home for the transfers) so I don't see them put her in the car.
 

joolsplus3

Admin - CPS Technician
Oh I don't have a guitar, either :D Just, you know, pluck the strap and see if it's got tension on it. A no-tension strap is too loose, and tight enough to cut clay is what people might consider too tight. If your seat is installed to your liking, give it a twang and see how it feels, then boom, you can compare it next time you see their seat. :)
 

Brigala

CPST Instructor
I wonder whether my description would help get it through to Grandpa: it's not that we are looking for the seat to move, but if you put both hands on the seat, put your back into it, and shove, and the car rocks back and forth but the seat still doesn't budge, there's a risk it might be in too tightly. That is what is meant by there should be "some" movement. Not that you actually need a whole inch when you jiggle it with one hand. An inch of movement is a maximum allowable amount of slack; zero movement under "reasonable" forces is a maximum amount of tension. Aim for somewhere in between those extremes and you'll be good.
 

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