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  1. #1
    3monkeymomma
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    Canada Help for 2nd car

    We are getting a 2nd car and i need seats for my kiddos. DS is 8 and will be going into a backless Turbobooster. he is in a HBB in our primary vehicle. DD just turned 6 and is 43 pounds, about 44 inches tall. She is still harnessed in a Nautilus in our primary vehicle. What is the best option for her in the 2nd car? She will only be in it for short trips in the city.

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  3. #2
    CPS Fanatic aept's Avatar
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    Test her out in your eight year old's HBB in the second vehicle. See how the belt fit is and if she can handle sitting still. Feel free to post pics here is you want us to evaluate.
    I think that will give you the best idea of whether you are willing to let her ride in a booster part time (in the 2nd car while she stays harnessed in the primary car.)
    If the HBB is a disaster (probably not!) then you will want to find a harness-to-booster combination seat like the nautilus.
    I feel most typical 6 year olds are ready for part time booster riding (aka booster training.)
    Ann, mom to 3 big brothers and a baby girl:
    DS1 - Aug 2006, 80 lb, 56", incognitos
    DS2 - May 2008, 77 lb, 51.5", Vivo or NBB
    DS3 - June 2011, 46 lb, 43", FF in FR85 or booster training
    DD - May 2015, 19 lb, 29", ) Snugride 30

  4. #3
    Senior Community Member Adventuredad's Avatar
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    Re: Help for 2nd car

    A booster is absolutely no issue for kids are these ages. A harnessed FF seat is not any safer for kids 4 and older. There is no research, data, stats or real life experiences showing this.

    If a child six years of age isn't ready for a HBB there are special needs involved. Or possibly just a very poorly disciplined child.

    Using a harness for older kids is not any safer but there are issues with insulation, price of the seat, flexibility and of course the huge neck loads in an accident.

    Your oldest child is most likely safest in a low back booster due to size of the child and todays larger FF seats. Side impact protection is not an issue since both HBB and harnessed FF seats basically provide no protection from the side in real life situations due to forward momentum and pre-impact braking. See peer reviewed research from Arbogast and Jacobsson.
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  5. #4
    Moderator - CPS Technician
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    Re: Help for 2nd car

    Quote Originally Posted by Adventuredad View Post
    A booster is absolutely no issue for kids are these ages. A harnessed FF seat is not any safer for kids 4 and older. There is no research, data, stats or real life experiences showing this.

    If a child six years of age isn't ready for a HBB there are special needs involved. Or possibly just a very poorly disciplined child.

    Using a harness for older kids is not any safer but there are issues with insulation, price of the seat, flexibility and of course the huge neck loads in an accident.

    Your oldest child is most likely safest in a low back booster due to size of the child and todays larger FF seats. Side impact protection is not an issue since both HBB and harnessed FF seats basically provide no protection from the side in real life situations due to forward momentum and pre-impact braking. See peer reviewed research from Arbogast and Jacobsson.
    It seems that you might be implying that "huge neck loads" for older kids with harnesses make harnesses less safe than boosters; is that your claim? If so, can you provide some links to peer-reviewed studies that support this? The question of "which is safer" comes up regularly here and I would love to see what evidence there is for the improved safety of one over the other. Lacking that, I will tell the OP that as far as I am aware, both a properly used booster and a properly used harnessed seat would be safe options for her child.

    Aside from that, I think it is entirely inappropriate for us to speculate on why another person's child is not ready for a booster. Let's not assume that a non-booster-ready 6 year old must necessarily have special needs or be poorly disciplined. Perhaps you did not intend to insult anyone's parenting or discipline methods, but your post certainly reads that way. If the OP determines that her 6 year old is not booster ready, it is not our business why that is the case, we simply want to help her find an appropriate seat for her son.

    OP, please feel free to respond back if you still have questions about what seat would be best for your child. I agree with aept that a booster is likely to be a great choice at this point, but if for whatever reason you would like harnessed seat recommendations, it would be helpful to know her seated torso height (up to the top of her shoulders).
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  6. #5
    CPSDarren - Admin SafeDad's Avatar
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    Re: Help for 2nd car

    Quote Originally Posted by Adventuredad View Post
    A booster is absolutely no issue for kids are these ages. A harnessed FF seat is not any safer for kids 4 and older. There is no research, data, stats or real life experiences showing this.
    I would agree, for a *properly used* booster. No statistics are needed. If a child squirms out of the shoulder belt, puts it behind their arm or back, or has a loose fitting lap belt, seatbelt syndrome injuries result. Google it.

    If a child six years of age isn't ready for a HBB there are special needs involved. Or possibly just a very poorly disciplined child.
    This is not a helpful remark and in some cases, simply misinformation. All children are different. Some are just squirmy. Even some adults don't remain seated properly in their seatbelt. Age is not the issue, maturity is the issue. That is the major difference in a harness and a booster for older kids. The harness seat is more reliant on the parent for installation and use, while the booster is more reliant on the child. Only a parent can assess which is best for their child, given the child's behavior and the parent's aptitude for installing and using a harnessed seat correctly.

    Using a harness for older kids is not any safer but there are issues with insulation, price of the seat, flexibility and of course the huge neck loads in an accident.
    I've not seen any statistics of high neck loads being a major injury risk factor for older children in harnessed seats. Please link them if you have them. If the neck loads are increased, that means the harness has done its job in reducing head excursion. Head-excursion related head injuries are usually considered the most serious risk for toddlers and older kids.


  7. #6
    Moderator - CPS Technician safeinthecar's Avatar
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    Re: Help for 2nd car

    None of my kids were ready for a full time booster at age six. Only one of them was due to a special need issue.

    In much of the US, people spend a crazy amount of time in the car. Hence the fanatic popularity of cupholders in our vehicles. On Wednesdays, I pick DD2 up from school and drop her for riding practice, get DD1 and take her to the craft store for supplies for the class she teaches, then to the class, get DS from school and drop him off at church, go back to get DD2, then back to get DS and DD1 then hit the grocery school on the way home. This routine takes seven hours. SEVEN HOURS. While this is my busiest day, 3-5 hours in the car a day is pretty normal for where I live. When I had 4-6 yos that had to tag along everywhere all day long, it just wasn't reasonable to expect them to be capable of sitting in perfect position for that amount of time.

    As far as discipline goes, when I'm driving, I need to be driving. I turn into a very poor driver when I'm trying to get a wriggling child back into position with one hand while navigating a 10 lane 4 freeway interchange.
    Kimberly
    Proud mommy of Becky 18! Danny 15 Hope 12~Auntie to William-14, David-10, and Logan 2~

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  9. #7
    CPS Fanatic bubbaray's Avatar
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    My girls were both ready for boosters at age 5&40lbs. Behaviour wise, DD1 was definitely ready at age 4 but she wasn't 40 lbs until age 5.
    Melissa

    DD#1, April 2004, FFg in a Pink Harmony Literider & Onyx Parkway SG
    DD#2, January 2007, FFg in a Pink Monterey & Purple with Pink Hearts HBTB

    Riding in my 2010 Toyota RAV4 and DH's 2011 Ford 150 Crew Cab

  10. #8
    CPS Fanatic Keeanh's Avatar
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    Re: Help for 2nd car

    Quote Originally Posted by Adventuredad View Post
    If a child six years of age isn't ready for a HBB there are special needs involved. Or possibly just a very poorly disciplined child.
    At the risk of derailing the thread, would you please cut this out? Your condescending theme of "if you don't do it my way there's something wrong with you or your kids" is getting tiring. My intelligent, neurotypical, healthy, mature son could not stay positioned properly while sleeping until he was 7.5. If there was any chance of him falling asleep, even on a 15 minute trip home from an exhausting hockey game, he was safer in a harness. Also, lots of 6yos are impulsive and forgetful and it has nothing to do with being undisciplined or having special needs.

    I see a heck of a lot of people with 2 kids saying "MY kids were ready at X age". Try having a few more and see if the pattern holds. All kids are different.

    ETA: Also, like Safeinthecar pointed out, "around town" is not the same for everyone. Now that I have big kids, I leave most people at home most of the time. But there was a time when everyone went everywhere. My Wednesdays involve about 10 hours of back & forth from the house to activities for various kids. Mondays are almost as bad at 6.5 hours.
    17yrs, 15yrs, 13yrs, 11yrs , 9yrs (58", 75lbs, Incognito), 7yrs (46", 50lbs, Dreamtime), 5yrs (41", 35lbs, RN), 3yrs (30lbs, RF Marathon), NB (Peg 4-35)
    '14 Mazda5, '06 Chevy Express, '08 Toyota Tundra

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  12. #9
    CPS Fanatic Keeanh's Avatar
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    Re: Help for 2nd car

    To the original poster, I like the idea of having 6yo try out the highback booster and see how she does. A highback is often a better choice for a young, small rider. Not because of side impact protection, but for overall positioning in the seatbelt, especially the shoulder belt. At her size, a highback Turbo would be a good choice.

    If your 8yo is getting close to outgrowing his seat and you still want him in a highback for road trips and such, you could get him a taller seat and pass his down to 6yo.
    17yrs, 15yrs, 13yrs, 11yrs , 9yrs (58", 75lbs, Incognito), 7yrs (46", 50lbs, Dreamtime), 5yrs (41", 35lbs, RN), 3yrs (30lbs, RF Marathon), NB (Peg 4-35)
    '14 Mazda5, '06 Chevy Express, '08 Toyota Tundra

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