OMG, how can this be?

i was reading some euroNCAP crash reports. they crash cars with carseats in the second row. one FF, one RF. being euro cars, the seats are usually euro-britaxes such as the rohmer babysafe plus and duo plus.

but get this, here's how they described the installations on one particular test car:

Restraints used

18 month old
Britax-Römer BabySafe Plus Universal, rearward-facing using ISOFIX anchorages and adult seatbelt

3 year old
Britax-Römer Duo Plus Universal, forward-
facing using ISOFIX anchorages and top-
tether

Click to expand...

so they're using both ISOFIX AND the seatbelt? i thought that's a huge no-no?

also, for the 3-yo, they're using ISOFIX and a top tether. i thought that euro cars don't use top tethers with ISOFIX?

i'm going to browse around some more crash tests and see if they do this on all or most of the test cars...

I think that's how they're designed to be used, though. The seatbelts generally go AROUND the seats, rather than through a beltpath, and then the ISOFIX plugs into the anchors and then has a leg that anchors down to the floor. That's how they can hold up these seats designed for 50 pound 5 year olds RFing, to give them the leg room they need.

I *just* saw a picture of this today, but now I can't think of where it was.

Something like thisl


It looks like there's a reverse belt path something going on, as well as straps coming down the back to anchors on the floor. Not just a top tether, but something needed for the installation. Hopefully someone who knows will chime in too.

Wendy

Who knows what the instructions say over there. It could be a CR-style misuse, or it could be allowed with specific seats or in specific vehicles.

As for the top tether thing, someone posted in the last month or two that she had top tether anchorss in her rented VWs in Germany. I didn't think the seats came with top tethers (none of them did when I left on '05), but maybe they're picking up that "new" technology to make their seats safer now?

In class yesterday, they explained that you can't use both forms of install because it could interfere with the 'ride down' time and put too much strain on the kid's spine, which made sense to me.

But I totally can't tell from your post whether you are being utterly sarcastic or not

Yes this is a reverse belt path type thing. Essentially a long belt path like the Regent. Except it's rear facing. So the seatbelt goes over the side, under the seat then over the other side. Just like you do on the Regent, around the back of the seat.

Then, on the back of the seat there is two straps similar to seatbelts. You have straps that you attach to the vehicle like a d ring. These straps have the female end of the buckle. The male end is attached to the seat, then you tighten like a tether. There is also a foot that comes down over the edge of the vehicle seat.

Okay, found pictures:

The foot and male end of the buckles on the seat

http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232fp335>nu=3237>288>2<4>WSNRCG=32335337:644;nu0mrj

The seatbelt like buckle

http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232fp335>nu=3237>288>2<4>WSNRCG=323353379;;:4nu0mrj

One of the ways to install. This still uses the reverse belt path, it just doesn't go over the sides. This allows more leg room. I use the regular reverse belt path when not giving that leg room.

Like in the Dodge truck, the vehicle seat isn't big enough to give that leg room. I can't believe I don't have pictures of that install... but it was a last minute thing when I used it, that's why.

Here it is in the van though, allowing for the leg room. The picture posted below is how I do it in the truck, minus the base of course.

http://render1.snapfish.com/render2...tB?*KUp7BHSHqqy7XH6gXG|Rup6JaQ|/of=50,332,443

wendytthomas said:

I think that's how they're designed to be used, though. The seatbelts generally go AROUND the seats, rather than through a beltpath, and then the ISOFIX plugs into the anchors and then has a leg that anchors down to the floor. That's how they can hold up these seats designed for 50 pound 5 year olds RFing, to give them the leg room they need.

I *just* saw a picture of this today, but now I can't think of where it was.

Something like thisl

It looks like there's a reverse belt path something going on, as well as straps coming down the back to anchors on the floor. Not just a top tether, but something needed for the installation. Hopefully someone who knows will chime in too.

Wendy

Click to expand...

UlrikeDG said:

Who knows what the instructions say over there. It could be a CR-style misuse, or it could be allowed with specific seats or in specific vehicles.

As for the top tether thing, someone posted in the last month or two that she had top tether anchorss in her rented VWs in Germany. I didn't think the seats came with top tethers (none of them did when I left on '05), but maybe they're picking up that "new" technology to make their seats safer now?

Click to expand...

according to euroNCAP, automakers are encouraged to start putting top tethers in *all* their cars because the evidence in favor or IFOSIX + top tethering is compelling and it's something that euroNCAP feels is a good thing all around. they say that less than 10% of new cars sold in europe have them, and when a car being crash tested comes with them, they automatically test the child seat using the feature.

ThreeBeans said:

In class yesterday, they explained that you can't use both forms of install because it could interfere with the 'ride down' time and put too much strain on the kid's spine, which made sense to me.

But I totally can't tell from your post whether you are being utterly sarcastic or not

Click to expand...

not sarcastic at all, just honestly curious. it would seem that for once a US standard is having an influence there (now that's being utterly sarcastic ). as for what they told you in your class yesterday, that would seem to contradict completely what euroNCAP is saying.

here's a blurb from the child seat testing protocol used by euroNCAP (bolding by me), regarding how a euro seat should be marked:

For Universal ISOFIX, the markings must indicate the following:
• That the CRS should only be used on seats provided with a top
tether and be approved for use with three point Universal ISOFIX.
• That use on seats without a top tether should be avoided.
• That the top tether is an essential part of the restraint system.

For Semi-universal ISOFIX, the markings must indicate the following:
• That the CRS should only be used in combination with an “antirotation
device” and be approved for use with an anti-rotation
device.
• Advice on how to use and adjust the anti-rotation device.
• That the anti-rotation device is an essential part of the restraint
system.

Click to expand...

and here's another section on ISOFIX, regarding vehicle labeling:

6.5. ISOFIX
6.5.1. Usability
Where two passenger seats are in compliance with the following
requirements, 1 point shall be awarded to the Child Protection score.
a) Each seat which is equipped with ISOFIX anchorages must be marked.
It must be clear which pairs of ISOFIX anchorages should be used
together.
b) The location of each ISOFIX anchorage must be marked.
c) The location of each top tether anchorage must be marked.
d) The markings must include both text and a pictogram.
e) The markings must be of conspicuous design and both the text and pictogram must have colours which contrast with their background.
f) The markings must be permanently visible. Flag type labels are not acceptable.
g) The marking must be permanently attached to the vehicle.
h) Each ISOFIX anchorage must be equipped with permanent guidance which physically helps the ISOFIX latches to line up with the anchorages.
i) It must be possible to fit the top tether easily, without having to carry out any preparatory actions on the vehicle other than the simple opening of a cover over the top tether anchorage, or adjustment of the head restraint position. For example, it would not be acceptable to have to remove the head restraint.

Click to expand...

testing protocol (PDF)