Which make and model year minivan?

aquamama

New member
Hi all. We have two children and are probably done, though we may have one more. One child is 3mo, 18lbs, in a RFing Britax. The other is 2 1/2 yo, 38-39", in a RFing Diono Radian. We intend to keep them both RFing for as long as possible, and I intend to get another Radian for the 3mo, unless I hear otherwise here. :) [Or, I probably need another post, but I might move the younger into the Diono and get another RFing car seat for the older child that will last longer for her.]

Anyhow, we want to get a new vehicle, the impetus being that the RFing car seats do not fit well behind our current driver or passenger side seats. We'd also like to have the capacity to take grandparents with us places and carry cargo. So, we're leaning towards either the Odyssey or the Sienna. I tend to prefer the Odyssey.

The questions are which model year(s) would be the best for either model. I'd like good safety features in general, of course. I'd like to fit two RFing seats indefinitely in the second row, just because it seems it'd be easier to get the kids into them if I didn't have to climb into the 3rd row to strap them in. Also easier to supervise! But if we install 2 RFing in second row in the 2011+ Odyssey, I don't see how we could get anyone into the 3rd row. I am enticed by the feature in the 6-10 Odyssey where you can remove the 8th seat and slide one captain chair over to make a side aisle to the 3rd row. (But then you can't have an 8th person of course.) And does anyone know which seats in the 6-10 Odyssey have LATCH?

And does anyone know if we install the Diono in the 2nd row RFing, if we'd have room for the front seat passengers? I have the angle adjuster but the floor tether in our current car pulls it down and so the adjuster really doesn't accomplish much.

I am not opposed to buying an older used vehicle to get the car seat configuration we want, but I am worried we'll lose out on safety features. Does anyone know if that is the case, in comparing say '10 or older to '11-'12?

Thanks!
 
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MommyShannon

New member
We have an '06 Ody and love it. LATCH positions are the 2 captains chairs and then in the center (a little offset) in the 3rd row. There are top tethers everywhere but the 8th seat though so it really is great for flexibility. I love being able to slide the seat over and create a side aisle since we have 4 kids. Keep in mind that the seat belt still comes from the wall so that's only useful while using LATCH on that seat. The limit is 65lbs child+seat though so for most car seats, the child will be FF when that happens. In your case I'd consider the 2011+. There are some seats that can be installed in the center of the 2nd row and still allow the seat beside it to flip forward (not typical in the earlier model). It is a very wide 2nd row. As long as you choose your seats wisely, it won't be a problem. It also has 6 top tethers.
 

aquamama

New member
Thanks MommyShannon. I see what you are saying, and I really appreciate the info! I'm really enchanted with the set up you have, with the side aisle.

I've been reading a bunch here since I posted earlier, so here's an update (already). I'm definitely leaning towards the Odyssey. Since I am super frugal I am leaning towards an '06 or '07. It also allows us to try out the minivan thing, and if we find we want something else in a few years I'd feel less guilty buying another vehicle. So, can I add several questions for you all?

How high could the mileage be and you would still be comfortable buying? (I read about the timing belt replacement)

Do you consider the '06 and above (2nd gen) just as safe as the '11 and above? (I did read about the '14 having good small overlap test results, but we're not buying new.)
 

MommyShannon

New member
I don't know much about the how the safety features compare. There are several people here who do though and I'm sure will chime in. I can't recall our mileage, but it's over 150,000. DH did all the major maintenance required including the timing belt, but it's very involved. The A/C started working sporadically but it was just a $10 solenoid. The biggest problem we had was a few weeks ago the alternator had to be replaced.
 

aquamama

New member
We went and test drove a 2009 model tonight, and I was just looking again at your comments, Shannon.

I finally understood what you said about the 2011+ models, RE wide mode...I hadn't realized I didn't understand before, lol. Wide mode allows you to put one car seat on the side, on in the 8th, middle seat, and then people can still easily get into the 3rd row AND an adult can sit in one of the two captain's chairs in the 2nd row. Thanks!

Still, we might get a '06-'09 because we're frugal. :)
 

aquamama

New member
Here's another thing a friend just pointed out to me. If you can't use the seat belt to install a car seat in the captain's chair in the earlier models once it is moved over to make an aisle, how does an adult sit there even?
 

DawgDad

New member
Here's another thing a friend just pointed out to me. If you can't use the seat belt to install a car seat in the captain's chair in the earlier models once it is moved over to make an aisle, how does an adult sit there even?

They can, but it's not as comfortable for a small adult. Because you need to pull the seat belt out to get the pretensioners to engage, you usually don't have enough slack to properly install a car seat. An adult can sit there fine, small adults may not be as happy with the shoulder height. It's a pain for the 3rd row passengers as usually people sit in that second row captains chair with the arm rest down, so the seat belt catches and basically creates a webbing preventing the 3rd row passengers from getting through or even folding the seat forward for even more egress.

That was the main reason we traded our '09 in for the '12. We used the '09 with the 8th seat removed, but the frustration with seat belt and not being able to put a car seat in that seat with no LATCH (our oldest daughter exceeded the weight limit) sealed the deal to move up. Which was fine, since we ended up paying less per month.

I see there was a question about safety differences...they were subtle between the '10-'11 models like shoulder height in the 3rd row, head restraints in the 3rd row, and a safer 8th seat...but there has been a significant increase between the '13 & '14 models, even though they are the same generation series. The new '14 & soon to be released '15 models have significant safety features standard on all their trim levels in addition to the highest rating in safety in all crash tests (including the small overlap).
 

MommyShannon

New member
I am not sure if it's allowed to install with the seatbelt while the seat is moved center or not. It's really awkward though. If I need to install with a seatbelt or use with an adult, I keep the seat outboard and keep the aisle in the center. The LATCH limit is 65 lbs (child + seat). There are a few really heavy seats with high rf weight limits, but for my kids and seats, the LATCH has been useable (and therefore convenient to use with the seat moved center) their whole time RF. I just make a point to keep children light enough for LATCH there or move it back outboard.
 

aquamama

New member
Thanks guys. I've been thinking about this all day and discussed pros and cons with DH, and we're leaning towards the '11+ now. Our main reason for getting a vehicle with 3rd row seating is for the grandparents, and I can't see them going through a center aisle, or over and around a seat belt, to get there. And, Shannon, my kids are huge, lol, so it is quite challenging to try to do extended rear-facing, and they will likely need a seat belt install before I want them to be done.

You know, I'm doing all this work to figure out how to get them together in the 2nd row, and it'll probably work out that we have to separate them in 6 months, lol.
 

DawgDad

New member
Thanks guys. I've been thinking about this all day and discussed pros and cons with DH, and we're leaning towards the '11+ now. Our main reason for getting a vehicle with 3rd row seating is for the grandparents, and I can't see them going through a center aisle, or over and around a seat belt, to get there. And, Shannon, my kids are huge, lol, so it is quite challenging to try to do extended rear-facing, and they will likely need a seat belt install before I want them to be done.

You know, I'm doing all this work to figure out how to get them together in the 2nd row, and it'll probably work out that we have to separate them in 6 months, lol.

And that's fine...happened to us. But the great thing about it with the 2011+ model series, it's super easy to put your seats in safely and easy. We love having the van when grandparents are riding with us to dinner or a short day trip somewhere. We can all go in one car and they LOVE riding in the van. In fact, my inlaws will be riding down with us to the airport on Sunday when we head up to NYC together...so all their luggage, 3 kids, them, and my wife and I in one car. No worries at all!
 

aquamama

New member
We're still trying to decide if we could make the '06-'10 work for us...we're thinking of buying this older generation and then upgrading sooner, say in 2 years at the soonest, to a (used) '14, '15 - then we'd have a safer one than the '11-'13, while buying for a reasonable price. It basically comes down to we're not ready to lay down $25-30K for a used vehicle, even if we know that logically it will keep its value for resale.

I called Diono today because of something it said about SuperLATCH in the manual. Turns out my Diono RadianRXT is approved for LATCH use up to an 80lb child (the 80lbs doesn't include the car seat weight), RF or FF. Of course, the seat itself can only RF only to 45lbs. But this means that the seat is approved for LATCH beyond what Honda says you can do. Diono said that in March '14 the gov't said every car seat had to set a limit of 35lb RF LATCH, but that it was arbitrary and their seats would perform at their higher standard (still). (They also implied that you could do LATCH with higher weights with the new Rainier too, even though it will come with the new standards in the manual.)

I still have a call in to an installation expert at Diono to confirm I could use 2 Radians in the 2 captain's chairs, and figure out RF tethering, etc., before we commit to buying the vehicle.

Sooo, what I think this means is that we can do what we wanted to with the '06-'10, putting the larger child in the moved over middle captain's chair with LATCH, almost indefinitely (well, until she is done RFing at least). Then we wouldn't have to worry about that pesky seat belt in the aisle. And by the time she's ready to FF we might be ready to have her in the 3rd row, or we might find people don't mind climbing around the FF seat in chair to get to a middle aisle.

Thoughts? :) Thanks again!
 

thepote

New member
We have an 05 Ody that we bought new. Dd is almost 4, ff in a Foonf in the passenger side captains chair. We had it in the off center middle position but she would hit her brother and whip him with toys etc and had to be separated. When her brother was ff in a harness seat and over the latch limit I put his seat in the drivers side captains chair with the seatbelt installation.

As for the radian super latch, I don't know of a tech here that would trust it. It's generally something discouraged here, and the 65lb child+seat is encouraged for most vehicles now.

I had her rf radian tethered to the table leg part that's bolted to the frame but it was a parental decision because someone who did the research here said Honda's newest position was to not allow it because of seat sensors I think.

My 8 and 10yo climb over the captains chair without the car seat it to get into the third row.

Our van has 135k on it and I'd buy it again in a heartbeat :)

Good luck!
 

aquamama

New member
We have an 05 Ody that we bought new. Dd is almost 4, ff in a Foonf in the passenger side captains chair. We had it in the off center middle position but she would hit her brother and whip him with toys etc and had to be separated. When her brother was ff in a harness seat and over the latch limit I put his seat in the drivers side captains chair with the seatbelt installation.

As for the radian super latch, I don't know of a tech here that would trust it. It's generally something discouraged here, and the 65lb child+seat is encouraged for most vehicles now.

I had her rf radian tethered to the table leg part that's bolted to the frame but it was a parental decision because someone who did the research here said Honda's newest position was to not allow it because of seat sensors I think.

Thanks! Do you feel like the Radian is a good choice for RF in the captain's chairs, then? Even if it can't be tethered in the ody? I'm wondering for the one we have, but also b/c I'm thinking of buying another for our 2nd child.

If I kept DD RF in the Radian, seat weight + child weight, taking into account 45lb RF limit, would end up being just over the LATCH limit of 65 lb anyway. By then she could be in the driver's side captain's with seat belt install and DS could move to the slid-over captain's chair. (Or she could FF with aisle btw captain's chairs, or she could FF in 3rd row outboard.)

In contrast, if I replaced her seat with a Foonf, she'd already be over the LATCH limit, b/c the seat weighs so much more...and I fear DS would reach the LATCH limit sooner than I'd like too!
 

thepote

New member
Radian fits in the captains chair with latch and angle adjuster great. Without the AA it's fairly over-reclined for older kids.

My personal preference is to not use a radian ff outboard. The lack of SIP doesn't sit well with me, but that's just my opinion from being here since 2007. But it does install well there ff.

For the Foonf ff you would use the rigid latch and the seatbelt together. It's one of the only seat that does that; it's how the REACT system works. But for rf, yes it would be seatbelt install.
 

aquamama

New member
I hope the Radian fits well w/o angle adjuster for our 4 mo, b/c we just bought a '09 Odyssey!

My personal preference is to not use a radian ff outboard. The lack of SIP doesn't sit well with me, but that's just my opinion from being here since 2007. But it does install well there ff.

I didn't understand this statement above. Did you mean RF instead of FF that first time? And what is SIP? Sorry!
 

thepote

New member
No, I won't use it ff in outboard positions. SIP is side impact protection. Rf is less of a concern for me (but still not ideal with the radian) because the body usually is also moving towards the front of the car in a side impact, so deeper into a rf seat. It's the opposite for ff; out of the seat and to the side.

I want to stress, though, that this isn't the party line here. We recommend radians in outboard positions all day long. My position comes from watching thousands of crash test videos and knowing other countries' SIP standards (USA has none yet).
 

aquamama

New member
Thank you for helping me understand this. So, it sounds like these would be the ideal set ups (for 2 kids):

While both RF:
Radian in driver's side captain's, Radian or taller seat in pass side captain's, either moved over to center or on pass side, depending on whether LATCH usage allowed

While one RF, one FF:
RF Radian in driver's side captain's, seat belt install; other seat in pass captain's, not moved over, seat belt install, OR in 3rd row center [but is allowed in any of those three 3rd row seats, since they all have tethers]

While both FF:
One chair in third row with the middle tether point? Obviously at least one of the seats would have to be outboard, in one of the two captain's chairs, or in the 3rd row even. (And the pass side captain's couldn't be moved to the center, b/c there is no FF tether point there.)

Thanks!
 

thepote

New member
Passenger side captains chair has a top tether anchor for ff on the back of the seat so you can use it wherever the seat is. Not sure if that's what you meant by no tether anchor there. For over 38ish lbs (27ish lb radian + 38ish lb kid= 65lb lower anchor limit) you need to install with the seatbelt. The off-center captains chair position would make the seatbelt cross the aisle to the third row which isn't ideal, though.

I would place the radians wherever is most convenient. If that means two outboard radians that's fine. Your Ody is inherently very safe.
 

aquamama

New member
And the pass side captain's couldn't be moved to the center, b/c there is no FF tether point there.

Actually I just talked to the installation woman at Diono and she said the 2nd row captain's chairs you anchor to points on the bottom of the back of the chair itself while FF. I don't have possession of the minivan yet so I haven't seen this for myself yet. But assuming she is correct for the '09, then you can have the captain's chair FF with anchor in the center position.

She also said Diono permits, while RF, that you anchor the car seat to the seat it is in...where it is bolted to the floorboard.
 

aquamama

New member
Passenger side captains chair has a top tether anchor for ff on the back of the seat so you can use it wherever the seat is. Not sure if that's what you meant by no tether anchor there. For over 38ish lbs (27ish lb radian + 38ish lb kid= 65lb lower anchor limit) you need to install with the seatbelt. The off-center captains chair position would make the seatbelt cross the aisle to the third row which isn't ideal, though.

I would place the radians wherever is most convenient. If that means two outboard radians that's fine. Your Ody is inherently very safe.

Thanks. It's funny, I made my post directly above this one without refreshing the page I guess, because then I saw you had said the same thing I did. ;)

I guess the last piece of the puzzle is the parental decision whether to trust the manufacturer's testing that their SuperLATCH connectors will go to 80 lb child + car seat weight. I talked to her about that too and she said they definitely stand by it. But I don't have to make that particular decision yet.
 

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