Decisions, decisions...large SUV or minivan?

jennzee

Active member
We are SUV people. However, with baby #5 on the way, we're discovering that maybe a van is a more suitable option for us for the next few years (boo!). We currently drive an '07 Durango, which we love, but as we're contemplating carseat/booster configurations, I'm just not sure it's going to work for the long-term.

We currently have 2 in HBB, 1 in a NBB (and he's small, so he won't 5-step for a while yet), and will have 2 RF'ing for at least a year, which will then turn into 1 RF'ing and one FF'ing at some point beyond a year from now. As it stands if we kept the Durango, we'll have the 2 HBB's in the 3rd row, the NBB in the second row outboard so that it can be easily removed every time we get in and out of the car in order for the twins to get into the 3rd row, and the 2 RF'ing seats middle and outboard in the 2nd row.

We initially started looking at Suburbans or Yukon XLs.

Pros for going that route include maintaining (or even increasing...not sure on exact numbers) towing capacity, 4WD, and the huge increase in cargo space.

Cons...they aren't really going to afford us much more flexibility than we already have in terms of accessing the 3rd row, gas mileage will go down just a bit, and I'm worried about the lack of headrests in the center seat of both the second and third rows. I feel like that guarantees having to buy another vehicle once we are beyond the HBB stage (so, 8-10 years...which we may likely be ready for something new by then anyway, but with as big a purchase as this is, I'd rather run it into the ground), as well as limits the ability to drive more than 4 backseat passengers for other things (we often transport youth from church or have grandma visiting).

As far as minivans go, I've narrowed it down to the newer model Odysseys because I like the flexibility it offers with so many LATCH points in addition to the other family-friendly features that come with most minivans. Once we have a FF'ing convertible, I like the option I'll have to move that easily to the third row and be able to move my booster riders around as needed. I have yet to put all of the carseats we'd be using in one to make sure that it works, but based on the research I've done, it shouldn't be a problem. Having LATCH in the jump seat is also very appealing, as we're currently dealing with frequent unbuckling of the CCO in the center of the Durango by the booster rider sitting next to it.

Dh is a little stressed about losing some towing capacity with a minivan, even though we rarely have the need to tow something that it couldn't handle. He's always had the ability to tow whatever needed it, so it's a bit like losing his security blanket over that one. We also encounter some rough winter driving conditions getting to my mom's house during the winter, so losing the 4WD is a bit of a downside, though not a deal-breaker.

Are there things I'm not considering about the Suburban/Yukon route that would make a difference and keep us in an SUV, or is the Ody probably really the best option? We were planning to wait until the baby came to find out how big a pain the Durango actually would be, but now we're kind of leaning toward just moving forward with something that has a much greater potential to work for us rather than dealing with it all with a new baby in the mix too.
 
ADS

MommyShannon

New member
Is there any chance of fitting 3 in back of your current Durango? I do love our Ody, but 5 kids will still be tight. I will say that you could consider previous models too since there are top tethers everywhere but the 8th seat. There are fewer lower anchors, but seatbelt installs have been fine. The nice thing about the '06-'10 models is that you can slide a captain's chair over to create a side aisle. Figuring out the right 3 across the back might be tricky, but do-able. I like putting a Britax convertible (rf or ff), Harmony youth booster, and Vivo. They can all easily buckle and I turn the buckle stalk of the convertible 180 degrees to avoid accidental unbuckling. The 2011+ models will make 3 across the second row a lot easier though and you could just remove a captain's chair if you want an aisle.
 

jennzee

Active member
Is there any chance of fitting 3 in back of your current Durango? I do love our Ody, but 5 kids will still be tight. I will say that you could consider previous models too since there are top tethers everywhere but the 8th seat. There are fewer lower anchors, but seatbelt installs have been fine. The nice thing about the '06-'10 models is that you can slide a captain's chair over to create a side aisle. Figuring out the right 3 across the back might be tricky, but do-able. I like putting a Britax convertible (rf or ff), Harmony youth booster, and Vivo. They can all easily buckle and I turn the buckle stalk of the convertible 180 degrees to avoid accidental unbuckling. The 2011+ models will make 3 across the second row a lot easier though and you could just remove a captain's chair if you want an aisle.

We haven't exhausted all of our options back there, and it's actually a pretty generous 3rd row compared to many, but so far, I haven't been able to make anything work that doesn't make buckling a huge pain. The angle that the center seatbelt comes down from makes it virtually impossible to put a NBB there, and the best fit for a HBB there (that I've tried anyway) was a Parkway....which won't work because the buckle stalks back there are ridiculously long and Britax specifically prohibited it from coming up as far as it does on that seat. I'm not ready for the 7 yo's to be backless yet, which also eats up some room.

Putting a RF'ing convertible back there won't work well for everyday because I can't climb over the seats easily to access the third row for buckling every trip. That would pretty much just be trading one problem for another....difficult loading/buckling of a RF'er or difficult buckling of three boosters.

I do really wish that the newer Ody's at least had the option to slide the captains chair over to make the side aisle, though it would only help us for everyday if we figured out three-across in the back there...but I do like the option to slide those three second row seats apart a few inches to give a little more breathing room for car seats (I can't remember if the older years do that too?). We'd definitely not want to go older than 2010 in that generation, since whatever we do end up with will hopefully be the only vehicle we buy for many years...the newer, the better in that respect, though our budget isn't high enough to go brand new.
 

bubbaray

New member
If you want to tow, just skip the van. Honestly, you won't be happy towing with a van if you are used to towing with a truck or SUV.
 

MommyShannon

New member
Oh, I just remembered that I can flip my captain's chair with an Olli there so you might be able to find a booster that makes that easier for you too. No the older Ody doesn't have wide mode. Removing a captains chair would do about the same as sliding one over. It's just bigger to store than the tiny 8th seat in the older model. I agree about towing though. DH just laughs at the idea of using the van to tow because of difference in the engine.
 

jennzee

Active member
If you want to tow, just skip the van. Honestly, you won't be happy towing with a van if you are used to towing with a truck or SUV.

I'm not too concerned about the towing. 99% of what we do is using our small utility trailer to take yard waste to the dump and hauling construction materials from Home Depot for whatever the project of the day at out house is...definitely light-duty stuff. I can't remember the last time we towed something heavy like a boat or camp trailer for our own purposes....it's always someone else asking us to pull for them. Dh grew up on a farm, so he always had access to trucks to tow whatever was needed and he likes knowing we could do that if we needed to, but honestly (and perhaps selfishly) I really like the idea of NOT having a high towing capacity so that we aren't the first people everybody runs to when they need a towing favor done.
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
Added to cons of large SUV: Worse handling and parking than minivan. Fuel economy much worse than minivan. More expensive to buy. Typically no crash testing results, though Suburban did well in all of the NHTSA crash tests. So shameful that for the "all new" 2015 model they still couldn't be bothered to put head restraints in the center seats. On the plus side some trims like Suburban LTZ and Yukon XL SLT have backup cams, forward collision, blind spot, lane departure and cross traffic warnings standard for 2015 and lower trims have inexpensive options packages for some of these.

Other vehicles to add to the mix that will allow you to tow:

Ford Expedition EL. Still no center head restraints, but does have the nice 2nd row center seat that moves forward to keep baby in reach. Has a couple questionable NHTSA crash test results, though (Frontal driver and side pole).

Nissan NV or Dodge/Freightliner/Mercedes Sprinter passenger vans. Probably overkill in terms of size, but the Mercedes can be equipped with a nice set of advanced safety features like frontal crash, lane departure and blind spot warnings. Plus head restraints and shoulder belts in every seat. Not sure about how many LATCH/tether, probably the minimum of 2+1. No crash test results.

I'm personally not a big fan of the Ford E-series and Chevrolet Express passenger vans compared to the Nissan and Mercedes models, but they are options, too. No crash test results.
 

jennzee

Active member
Yeah...a 2015 anything is so not in our budget! The salesman at the first dealership we stopped at wouldn't let up on the 2015 suburban until dh finally asked him how many of our children they'd be willing to take on a trade-in.

We've looked at the Expedition in passing, but dh really isn't a big Ford guy. We have a neighbor with one who really likes it (had one for years, switched to an Aramda, and then went back to the Expedition because they missed it so much). I haven't tried any of my seats in it, but just crawling around inside and checking it out didn't impress me any more than the SUV's we've already looked at, so we haven't really kept it on our list.

We actually did consider the NV...but you're right that it's just overkill for us. If more kids beyond this one were a possibility, we would consider it more than we did. My SIL has a Chevy something-or-other passenger van and the NV blows hers out of the water in terms of comfort and aesthetics....while it's probably not for us, it really is a very cool van that had us pretty tempted!
 

DawgDad

New member
You can tow until your hearts are content with the Odyssey for all light duty and even medium duty towing. Unless you want to strap a camper to the back or a 19' Chaparral, then there is no reason to have that as a consideration. Not to mention you can fit more in the bed of the Odyssey for trips to Home Depot than you could in the Suburban XL, which keeps things nice a dry.

With 5 kids, especially all still in carseats, you really have to buy an Odyssey for your sanity. The 2011+ model has the ability to widen the second row to fit pretty much every conceivable car seat option side-by-side. I would definitely put the one in the backless booster in one of the captains chairs so you can still slide that back to access the 3rd row for the other two older children. It's wide enough to fit two rear facing side-by-side in a captains chair & the middle "8th" seat...with LATCH!

I am not sure of your budget, but the 2014s (the '15s should come out in September/October timeframe) have a ton of new safety features added on that weren't on the earlier years. Will definitely last you longer if you want to drive the wheels off the car.

Overall, we have been pleased with the Odyssey. It's my wife's primary car, but I drive it all the time anytime I am in it. I have owned and driven many cars...lots of luxury, and this car drives and rides the same as those...especially with all the convenience features. I couldn't imagine juggling 5 kids in car seats in an SUV...always having to lift them into the car, crawl to the back to buckle them up in the 3rd row, and skin my knuckles trying to install the seats in the second row. Just not worth it...especially when they are so much more expensive than a minivan in upfront and long-term costs.
 

jennzee

Active member
Haha, DawgDad...I knew you'd eventually hop on here and sing the praises of the Ody...you really should be getting paid for your endless promotion!

Our budget sits around $25K, which easily gets us into an '11, with a few '12's popping up here and there. I'm a lover of leather, so we're looking at the EX-L or higher...tourings don't come up frequently, but we have run across a couple. I would love it if we had the budget to get one new enough to have the integrated vacuum, but alas, we'll be using the shop vac for now :)
 

bubbaray

New member
Towing isn't just about tow rating. It's also avout safety (you would need to add a brake controller and hitch) and excessive wear and tear on an engine not really designed for towing (so you need to add a transmission cooler etc).

If you are towing light things within the tow capabilities on level ground that will be ok. If you are towing in hot weather or through mountains, you won't be very happy in a van. Also tow ratings seen just the weight on the hitch but also all occupants of the vehicle and cargo in the vehicle. So if the van has a row rating of 5000lbs you shouldn't tow a 5000lb trailer and have a van full of people and their gear
 

DawgDad

New member
:) Sorry, I was busy with meetings this morning...

When there is a good product, then I will praise it. Cars are just very easy for me to talk about...

I think you can get a Touring. If they are asking $27-29K, then you can easily negotiate it down to a drive out of $25k. There is often times far more "buffer" in a used vehicle from a dealership than there is buying new. Usually $5-7K between what they paid and what they are asking. Let me know your area and I can sleuth for you. Have you visited Truecar.com?
 

jennzee

Active member
Towing isn't just about tow rating. It's also avout safety (you would need to add a brake controller and hitch) and excessive wear and tear on an engine not really designed for towing (so you need to add a transmission cooler etc). If you are towing light things within the tow capabilities on level ground that will be ok. If you are towing in hot weather or through mountains, you won't be very happy in a van. Also tow ratings seen just the weight on the hitch but also all occupants of the vehicle and cargo in the vehicle. So if the van has a row rating of 5000lbs you shouldn't tow a 5000lb trailer and have a van full of people and their gear

We won't have any trouble sticking to short trips, in town (so no mountains), with light loads. While it is a consideration, towing is nowhere near the top of our list of make-it-or-break-it options for whatever vehicle we end up with. Features that are going to affect us on a day-to-day basis are far more important....if a nice, high towing capacity comes along with that, fantastic. If not, it won't have a huge impact.
 

DawgDad

New member
Towing isn't just about tow rating. It's also avout safety (you would need to add a brake controller and hitch) and excessive wear and tear on an engine not really designed for towing (so you need to add a transmission cooler etc).

If you are towing light things within the tow capabilities on level ground that will be ok. If you are towing in hot weather or through mountains, you won't be very happy in a van. Also tow ratings seen just the weight on the hitch but also all occupants of the vehicle and cargo in the vehicle. So if the van has a row rating of 5000lbs you shouldn't tow a 5000lb trailer and have a van full of people and their gear

Don't disagree here, but when it's just a trailer with some lumber from HD, then it's well under the tow rating...probably not even reaching half it's towing capacity. Honestly, at the end of it, if you need to tow something, get a truck...or rent one for that one time you needed it when it exceeds the towing capacity of your everyday driving van. It doesn't make logical sense to spend a lot more money for that .5% of the time you would need to tow something very heavy. There is far too many rental services out there that cost 1/10th what it would cost to buy a giant SUV that can handle it.
 

jennzee

Active member
:) Sorry, I was busy with meetings this morning... When there is a good product, then I will praise it. Cars are just very easy for me to talk about... I think you can get a Touring. If they are asking $27-29K, then you can easily negotiate it down to a drive out of $25k. There is often times far more "buffer" in a used vehicle from a dealership than there is buying new. Usually $5-7K between what they paid and what they are asking. Let me know your area and I can sleuth for you. Have you visited Truecar.com?

Must have missed this while replying to the towing stuff. Haven't visited truecar.com...will have to check it out. We are in the greater SLC area, so if you care to car shop for me, have at it! Extra points if you can avoid black, white, and maroon exteriors!
 

DawgDad

New member
Must have missed this while replying to the towing stuff. Haven't visited truecar.com...will have to check it out. We are in the greater SLC area, so if you care to car shop for me, have at it!

I know you like leather (smart gal), do you have a color choice?
 

jennzee

Active member
I know you like leather (smart gal), do you have a color choice?
Must have been editing my reply at the same time you were posting...we're trying to avoid black, white, and maroon. Blue isn't at the top of my list, but it really depends on the shade. I'm open to most anything else.
 

DawgDad

New member
2013 Grey EX-L (no DVD) - $26,499 4,000 miles
2011 Silver EX-L (DVD) - $25,995 53,700 miles*
2012 Grey Touring - $25,499 32,452 miles
2012 Grey Touring - $26,997 27,965 miles

The last two in the pictures didn't have that 8th seat, so I have no idea what's going on there...definitely would call and ask. The listings I have with an asterisk are private sellers. These are usually higher because they don't know what the market really is, or they need to pay off their loan which could be a lot higher than it needs to be. Proceed with caution, especially when it's in this price range.

Big plus for the Touring is that it has memory seats. I am over 6' and my wife is under 5'5"...so it was always annoying moving the seats and side mirrors everytime I would get in the car after she had driven it for the day, and vice versa. It's so awesome to use my key to unlock the car and it moves the seat & mirrors to my setting before I enter the vehicle...no banging my legs on the steering wheel or hitting my head on the ceiling.

The Honda Dealerships in your area don't have a lot of inventory, and the ones they do have they are asking about $2-3K too much. I assume it's because there is so low of inventory, they can ask for more. Not wanting black or burgundy did cut out a few good deals. Grey/Polished Metal, Silver, and "Smoky Topaz" are the colors you should search for...
 

jennzee

Active member
That last one looks especially promising to me...we'll have to call to see what's up with that 8th seat not being pictured. Two of the four are from a dealership nearby that deals primarily with branded titles. They always have a bunch of Ody's for great prices, but I'm leary of buying something without a clean title, especially when there are clean title options are out there that we can be patient waiting for.
 

DawgDad

New member
Completely agree. Right now, you have one big thing going for you, the '15's haven't come out yet. Expect to see some '11s and '12s come on the market at Honda dealerships in the coming months when the '15s hit. People will either be trading in for '14s at steals or getting the new ones on lease turn ins. Keep me posted...I have never paid above invoice on any car and can help.
 

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