Making heads or tails of safety data--which tests to pay attention to?

oakster · Jul 6, 2014

We're shopping for a new car and down to a handful of options, and I'm having a really challenging time figuring out what to make of the various safety/crash testing data. We have never bought a new car before so I'm not really sure what to expect as far as what a current model should pass and what's not that big a deal.

Does anyone have any thoughts on which tests are the most critical for a car to pass on the safety front? NHTSA and IIHS both test for a series of things, and none of the cars we're looking at seem to ace the tests across the board with both groups. Similarly, Consumer Reports seems to have its own evaluations of cars, and I'm not sure how to weight these. (Generally somewhat skeptical of their methods for product testing, but I know they are well regarded for their car reviews, so maybe I should consider these more seriously?)

For instance, one car we're looking at failed the small overlap test, one passed it with an acceptable rating, and two haven't even been tested, so who knows how they'd fare. I know this is a new test and many cars had to be redesigned to pass it, so many older model cars fail it anyway (including, I'm sure, the 2001 model we've been driving for over a decade!) Similarly, while the cars have similar average ratings for frontal and side impact (mostly four stars), some get there with five star driver ratings and three star passenger ratings, while others just have four stars on everything--important? Or are all of these cars so much safer than older cars that the difference between star levels is negligible? Clearly if one car were consistently above the others in all the tests, it would be a no brainer, but this doesn't seem to be the case.

Thanks for any thoughts or advice--trying to stop my head spinning from information overload!

tl01 · Jul 7, 2014

Can I ask which cars you are considering? The small overlap test is important at least to me so it is something I consider. I would want acceptable or higher for that test.

oakster · Jul 7, 2014

We're looking at the Toyota Prius V (failed small overlap), the Prius Plug-In (acceptable), the Nissan LEAF, and possibly the VW Jetta TDI Sportwagen. The last two haven't been tested and probably won't be in our timeframe (LEAF because it's low volume and hasn't changed substantially since the last test, and Jetta because it's being discontinued). The Jetta sedan has a marginal rating for that test, but not sure if the cars are similar enough to assume that's how the wagon would perform too. (To complicate that one even more, they're changing to the Golf Sportwagen early next year and the Golf did very well...if we do decide to go the diesel route, we could potentially wait till then and go with that, too).

cantabdad · Jul 7, 2014

I give roughly equal weight to the NHTSA and IIHS tests, and usually they track pretty closely. However, to the extent that they diverge, I personally tend to give more weight to the IIHS tests because I have a sense that their tests are more challenging (witness the many cars failing the small-overlap test) and more fine-tuned to the types of crashes that cause injury in the real world.

IIHS also makes all of the test data and interpretation readily available online, so that gives me an even greater comfort with it.

Consumer Reports data is good for other factors affecting safety, including wet/dry braking distance, emergency handling (avoidance maneuver), and safety features such as backup cameras, LATCH locations, etc.

The Informed for Life website has a nice synthesis of all of the available crash test data, plus data on vehicle weight and type, to provide an overall rating. However, most of the cars you're considering have at least one piece of missing data, which makes this approach somewhat less useful.

Almost any new car will be safer than your 2001 model because of advances in structural design and innovations like Electronic Stability Control. It's just unfortunate that high-MPG hatchback/wagons, which appeal to many families but tend to be lower-volume sellers, haven't been tested as extensively as other models, so you will have to make your decision with incomplete information.

One thing I would say about the specific vehicles you mentioned is that Toyota went back and re-designed some of their models, including the Camry and the Prius, so that they would do better on the small overlap test. However, they did not do so on the Prius V wagon for whatever reason.

oakster · Jul 7, 2014

Thanks! The Informed for Life site is helpful to pull all the info together (though they don't recommend any of the cars--even more confusing!)

I have followed the Prius/Camry revisions (which apply to the Plug-In too fortunately) but Toyota seems to be pretty vague on if or when the Prius V will be redesigned. (2015 model is due out soon, so if we knew for sure that would be redesigned to try to pass the small overlap test, I might just wait for that, but I'm sure even if they redesign it, it's unlikely to be retested before we need to decide anyway...) The upside to going with the LEAF is that we would do a three-year lease there, so would have a chance to revisit things at that point and I'm fairly certain we wouldn't buy it off the lease since there should be many more alternative fuel options to choose from that would meet our criteria (two car seats plus room for a large dog in the cargo area) at that point. We're unfortunately pretty limited in our options right now, given that we'd also like to stay at 40mpg or above. And, of course, we're moving up from an almost 14-year-old subcompact car, so I imagine we'll be picking up a great deal on the safety front just with basic technology improvements and a larger/heavier car.

I think we've eliminated the Jetta from contention based on some unrelated concerns, so down to just the two Prius options and the Nissan. Maybe it makes sense to hold out as long as we can and see if we get more information by the time the 2015 Toyotas are out?

SavsMom · Jul 7, 2014

oakster said:
Thanks! The Informed for Life site is helpful to pull all the info together (though they don't recommend any of the cars--even more confusing!)

I have followed the Prius/Camry revisions (which apply to the Plug-In too fortunately) but Toyota seems to be pretty vague on if or when the Prius V will be redesigned. (2015 model is due out soon, so if we knew for sure that would be redesigned to try to pass the small overlap test, I might just wait for that, but I'm sure even if they redesign it, it's unlikely to be retested before we need to decide anyway...) The upside to going with the LEAF is that we would do a three-year lease there, so would have a chance to revisit things at that point and I'm fairly certain we wouldn't buy it off the lease since there should be many more alternative fuel options to choose from that would meet our criteria (two car seats plus room for a large dog in the cargo area) at that point. We're unfortunately pretty limited in our options right now, given that we'd also like to stay at 40mpg or above. And, of course, we're moving up from an almost 14-year-old subcompact car, so I imagine we'll be picking up a great deal on the safety front just with basic technology improvements and a larger/heavier car.

I think we've eliminated the Jetta from contention based on some unrelated concerns, so down to just the two Prius options and the Nissan. Maybe it makes sense to hold out as long as we can and see if we get more information by the time the 2015 Toyotas are out?

The Prius is up for redesign for the 2016 model year.
All manufacturers really look at crash tests when they make changes to a model so you can almost be certain that Toyota will address the crash test results on the Prius.

oakster · Jul 7, 2014

SavsMom said:
The Prius is up for redesign for the 2016 model year.
All manufacturers really look at crash tests when they make changes to a model so you can almost be certain that Toyota will address the crash test results on the Prius.

Yep, but that's actually the regular Prius, which they've already modified to pass the small overlap test. The Prius V was new for 2012, so likely won't see a full-on redesign for a couple more years (Toyota tends to run 5-7-year development cycles). But I'm hopeful that there could be a more substantive refresh for the V given that it will be the fourth year for it, and there hasn't been one yet. Maybe that would explain why they didn't bother with a mid-model-year update to address the small overlap test issue? We'll see...

cantabdad · Jul 7, 2014

oakster said:
Thanks! The Informed for Life site is helpful to pull all the info together (though they don't recommend any of the cars--even more confusing!)
...
I think we've eliminated the Jetta from contention based on some unrelated concerns, so down to just the two Prius options and the Nissan. Maybe it makes sense to hold out as long as we can and see if we get more information by the time the 2015 Toyotas are out?

Informed for Life uses a very conservative rubric; it does not recommend any vehicle with incomplete test results. So you need to take that all with a grain of salt.

I was car-shopping last year and was interested in many of the same vehicles and had some of the same concerns and frustrations about the incomplete test results.

The Prius is a Top Safety Pick from IIHS and that would be good enough for me personally. As long as you don't need the extra space that the "v" (wagon) affords -- then the regular Prius or plug-in version sounds like a good bet.

Thinking outside the box, the only other option I can think of is to get the base model of a fuel-efficient small SUV that is a Top Safety Pick, like the Rogue or Forester, for about $21K, and use the money you save over the Prius (esp. the plug-in) to offset your higher fuel bill and/or buy a whole pile of carbon offsets.

oakster · Jul 7, 2014

cantabdad said:
Thinking outside the box, the only other option I can think of is to get the base model of a fuel-efficient small SUV that is a Top Safety Pick, like the Rogue or Forester, for about $21K, and use the money you save over the Prius (esp. the plug-in) to offset your higher fuel bill and/or buy a whole pile of carbon offsets.

The funny part is that we actually talked about that as an option--but it doesn't work for DH, whose objection to the lower mpg vehicles is more political than financial (basically, he wants to give as little money as possible to oil companies, but is willing to give somewhat more money to car manufacturers and/or the electric company in order to make that happen--and yes, he understands that this is not entirely rational given other factors like lifecycle costs of vehicles, what the electric company is going to do with his money instead, etc.!) We did look at and price the Subaru Impreza and Forester and also a couple of similarly-sized Mazdas, though, as part of figuring that out. (Fortunately, we're also in CA, where electric vehicles actually are not as crazy expensive because the car manufacturers are mandated to sell certain numbers of them, and thus offer lots of incentives to meet the quotas, in addition to state incentives--the Plug-In Prius we're considering actually works out to be less than a comparably equipped standard Prius, bizarrely enough, which is why it's in the mix in spite of its basically non-existent electric range.)

SavsMom · Jul 7, 2014

oakster said:
Yep, but that's actually the regular Prius, which they've already modified to pass the small overlap test. The Prius V was new for 2012, so likely won't see a full-on redesign for a couple more years (Toyota tends to run 5-7-year development cycles). But I'm hopeful that there could be a more substantive refresh for the V given that it will be the fourth year for it, and there hasn't been one yet. Maybe that would explain why they didn't bother with a mid-model-year update to address the small overlap test issue? We'll see...

From my sources the V will be new as well.

oakster · Jul 7, 2014

SavsMom said:
From my sources the V will be new as well.

Interesting--definitely a shift from the official Toyota line! Any idea whether it would be on the same timeline as the Prius liftback? Sadly that would likely mean no major changes for 2015, though...sounding more and more like we should just stick with the LEAF and then reassess when the lease is up in 2017. Definitely don't want to buy the v if there's a full redesign coming next year, since that would kill the resale if it gets updates similar to what's been announced for the liftback Prius. (The main challenge is that the 2015 LEAFs just arrived this week at our local dealer so we're in the window of being able to get a decent lease deal on the 2014s now, but if we wait to see what's on tap for the 2015 Toyotas in September, that opportunity will likely be gone--such a hard call!)

So the head spinning continues--but thanks all!!

SavsMom · Jul 8, 2014

It will probably be released after the liftback - most likely several months behind. Having said that, Toyota tends to change that up quite often - so who knows. Expected release of the liftback is late 2015 or early 2016.

The 2015 V is getting a minor refresh, primarily interior and audio. They may be doing something in regards to improving crash tests (they did this with the Camry without doing a complete redesign) but there is no official confirmation on that yet.

oakster · Jul 8, 2014

Thanks--that's a much more promising timeframe than the 2-3 year lag that's been discussed in the past! But definitely would be a dealbreaker for buying a 2014 or 2015...ugh. (That's the main reason we're not looking at the liftback, too--at least the plug-in version isn't being updated till 2017 so there's a little more buffer on that one, though there are still some issues with resale on that given the improvements that are likely. We have the original Prius now, and the value plummeted with each of the subsequent releases as technology and designs advanced, so not really looking to repeat that if we can avoid it.)

Our last, really outside-the-box, option is to try to figure out some way for our dog to ride securely in the front seat in our current car. Then we could do an adult and the two car seats in the back, just barely--not super comfortable, but we would only need to do it 1-2x a month. That might get us through to 2016 to see what else is on tap at that point, since the LEAF is also slated for a bigger update then (but our car is also only one major repair away from salvage according to our mechanic, so it's basically a big game as to when that repair might be needed--could be next month, could be in five years...) Maybe time to revisit that one last time.

SavsMom · Jul 8, 2014

If the lease deal on the 2014's (leaf or Prius) is in your budget that is a great option. If I were in your situation I would seriously consider a low cost 3 year lease. You get out of your current vehicle and no longer have to worry about expensive repairs, you get to improve your mpg and the overall safety of the vehicle your driving, and you won't have to worry about depreciation once the new models are out - plus you will have a few months to get a deal and/or find your ideal vehicle down the road.

I had a 2010 Prius and I miss it - lol!
(I also worked at a large Toyota dealer for 7 years).

oakster · Jul 9, 2014

SavsMom said:
If the lease deal on the 2014's (leaf or Prius) is in your budget that is a great option. If I were in your situation I would seriously consider a low cost 3 year lease. You get out of your current vehicle and no longer have to worry about expensive repairs, you get to improve your mpg and the overall safety of the vehicle your driving, and you won't have to worry about depreciation once the new models are out - plus you will have a few months to get a deal and/or find your ideal vehicle down the road.

I had a 2010 Prius and I miss it - lol!
(I also worked at a large Toyota dealer for 7 years).

Yep, we're looking pretty seriously at both for leases--the LEAF we would lease for sure, and the Prius lease terms over the holiday weekend were very, very good (actually cheaper than the LEAF lease, and pretty solid deal even compared to buying). However, California also just released a new batch of HOV stickers for the Prius last week (they had been exhausted) and prices went back up today, so will have to wait and see how that pans out. (We heard from both our Toyota and Nissan dealers that the lack of stickers was shifting demand from the plug-in Prius to the LEAF--don't actually need the stickers anyway, but are tracking that to the extent that it affects price.) Luckily there's no rush--realistically we're unlikely to make many trips with everyone plus dog in the first month or two post-baby anyway. The dog in passenger seat option is pretty much out given that there seems to be no way to disable the air bag, though. (I was pretty sure that would be the case, but hoped maybe I'd missed something somewhere--oh well!) In the meantime, I'll hope that some new information magically appears that simplifies the decision one way or the other...

Thanks for the help!

SafeDad · Jul 9, 2014

If you are considering the LEAF, why not the Ford Focus Electric? Similar range, good crash test results all around and I think it might be a hair bigger, too? Also some good lease deals on it.

As noted, Toyota modified the design of the Prius for 2014 to pass the IIHS small overlap test, even though the vehicle itself wasn't refreshed or redesigned in general. It's possible they could do the same for the Prius V in 2015.

The Ford C-Max Energi is another nice option, and not as anemic on battery as the plug-in Prius. Not sure why the IIHS hasn't tested it at all, yet. Be sure to check out our reviews of Prius V, C-Max and LEAF at www.carseatblog.com .

SafeDad · Jul 9, 2014

I think both IIHS and NHTSA crash tests are equally important. The non-crash tests somewhat less important. These include rollover rating, rear/head restraints and roof strength.

I don't think it's necessary to make sure a vehicle aces every single test. Even most vehicles that have a Top Safety Pick or 5-Star overall NHTSA rating have some blemishes in individual tests.

My advice is to avoid any vehicle that has a "Poor" or "2-star" result in any of the actual frontal or side impact crash tests. Models with a "Marginal" or "3-star" crash test result should be considered carefully. For a commuter-only car with one occupant 95% of the time, perhaps you don't really care about results for the passenger or rear-seat, for example.

Even the IIHS and NHTSA ratings allow for some lower results in individual tests and still allow a vehicle to earn a top overall rating. I am suspect of some of the mysterious NHTSA methods of awarding 5-star overall ratings, but the IIHS criteria seem pretty reasonable. Always a good idea to check out individual crash test results as well, especially for the NHTSA where they don't make it as easy to see them as the IIHS does.

I used to like Informed for Life when they actually had their own system of integrating individual crash test scores to a computed overall risk rating. Their new system is not nearly as interesting to me. Their website utility is still a handy way to see all the crash test results on one screen, though.

SavsMom · Jul 9, 2014

CPSDarren said:
If you are considering the LEAF, why not the Ford Focus Electric? Similar range, good crash test results all around and I think it might be a hair bigger, too? Also some good lease deals on it.

As noted, Toyota modified the design of the Prius for 2014 to pass the IIHS small overlap test, even though the vehicle itself wasn't refreshed or redesigned in general. It's possible they could do the same for the Prius V in 2015.

The Ford C-Max Energi is another nice option, and not as anemic on battery as the plug-in Prius. Not sure why the IIHS hasn't tested it at all, yet. Be sure to check out our reviews of Prius V, C-Max and LEAF at www.carseatblog.com .

I will say that the Fords get looked over a lot, and they shouldn't. I have a 2014 Focus hatchback (gas) now and absolutely love it.

kathysr98 · Jul 9, 2014

CPSDarren said:
If you are considering the LEAF, why not the Ford Focus Electric? Similar range, good crash test results all around and I think it might be a hair bigger, too? Also some good lease deals on it. As noted, Toyota modified the design of the Prius for 2014 to pass the IIHS small overlap test, even though the vehicle itself wasn't refreshed or redesigned in general. It's possible they could do the same for the Prius V in 2015. The Ford C-Max Energi is another nice option, and not as anemic on battery as the plug-in Prius. Not sure why the IIHS hasn't tested it at all, yet. Be sure to check out our reviews of Prius V, C-Max and LEAF at www.carseatblog.com .

Good info, but your link isn't working for me.

oakster · Jul 9, 2014

Sadly all of the Ford electrics are out because they put their batteries in the cargo area, which makes it too high for our dog to ride in.

The only Ford that he fit in was the C-Max hybrid, but it didn't stack up well against the Prius liftback or v for price/space/mileage. I was pretty bummed about that, because I had high hopes for the Focus in particular!

Darren, would the small overlap test be considered one of the actual frontal/side impact tests (and thus a concern for the Prius v)? That one seems so tricky since I'm trying to compare to a car that hasn't even been tested for that...

Making heads or tails of safety data--which tests to pay attention to?

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