What to bring on international flight to Greece?

essnce629 · Mar 19, 2014

We're going to Greece for 3 weeks for BIL's wedding at the end of June. To get there we'll be taking a 12 hour flight, then 2 hour layover, then another 2 hour flight, then a 2 hour boat ride the next day! Same on the way back and we'll be renting a car throughout our trip. We'll also be spending a few days in Rome.

DS2 at that point will have just turned 5 (May) and currently weighs 40-41lbs with clothes and shoes on and is 43" tall. He normally rides harnessed in a FR85 and FR90. He's never been in a regular booster.

So what should I bring for DS2? I know once DS1 hit 40lbs we never brought a seat on the plane any more, but those were all flights of 6 hours or less. I'm not sure it if would be easier sleeping on a plane with or without a seat. In the past, DS2 has always slept really well in his carseat on the plane. He slept almost the entire way to Kauai last year in his MR65 (which I no longer have).

We'll be renting a car during our trip and I'm assuming it will be a small sedan since we'll be in Europe. So I need something for that.

I currently only have Frontiers and don't want to bring those, so it's either buy a lightweight harnessed seat for the trip or use a highback TB that I have and booster train DS2.

DS1 will be almost 11 when we leave, weighs over 90lbs, and is 58" tall and pretty much passes the 5-step test in any sedan so I won't be bringing anything for him.

So basically 2 questions: Use a seat on the plane for DS2 or not? And then what to use in our rental car-- harnessed seat (Evenflo Tribute perhaps) or booster? Obviously, if we go the booster route, DS2 will not be able to use that on the plane.

sunnymw · Mar 19, 2014

RSTV would be a good option. We carried 2 radians and a Scenera to Germany but with layovers I may have done something different. Now that we have one rstv anyway I will just get Mikah one also next time we fly! Eta: bonus, the rstv doesn't require locking seat belts. Euro belts often don't lock and need a lockoff or locking clip.

Double ETA: if you get an rstv and don't want it anymore when you get back, good chance I would buy it

essnce629 · Mar 20, 2014

sunnymw said:
RSTV would be a good option.

What's a RSTV? Is it this travel vest?

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Safe-Traffic-System-Safer-Travel/dp/B00A9XRLWS"]Amazon.com: Safe Traffic System Ride Safer 3 Travel Vest, Blue, Small: Baby[/ame]

essnce629 · Mar 20, 2014

sunnymw said:
Eta: bonus, the rstv doesn't require locking seat belts. Euro belts often don't lock and need a lockoff or locking clip.

Do European cars have LATCH?

gigi · Mar 20, 2014

Often they do not. Top tethering is not common practice in Europe.

Your best bet, especially in Greece, is to learn to install your seats with a seatbelt and locking clip only.

gigi · Mar 20, 2014

I don't recommend an RSTV at all. I have one I use in 3-10 minutes taxi rides in my home city but I wouldn't use it for anything else. My kids slouch a lot in it because they are uncomfortable, and slouching takes them out of position. RSTV is really more similar to a booster than a harness.

When I travel with my son, now 6, I bring a Boostapak. I never they sell them in the USA now. Awesome, great belt fit, comfortable, and my child carries it himself!

Another good booster is the bubblebum.

I would booster train him and bring a booster.

newyorkDOC · Mar 20, 2014

I'd do an RSTV. At 5 he'll be fine IMO. Most cars do not have locking belts in Europe and our "latch" is isofix so totally different than standard American latch. The seats have these rigid bars that connect to the car frame. Toyotas in Europe have a TT but I've honestly never been given the exact car I've requested upon reservation when renting so I wouldn't count on that. IMO the RSTV is more fool proof than a booster in the sense that once the child is secured in, they can't really move around too much (unlike a booster). Plus an RSTV is just sooooo much easier to travel with wrt a HBB.

In Rome you could just use public transport. Driving there is um... an adrenaline rush. Traffic is a nightmare there and it takes forever to get anywhere in a car.

Pixels · Mar 20, 2014

ISOFIX is identical to our lower anchors.

The Ride Safer Travel Vest linked up thread is what PP referred to as the RSTV. The particular model linked (the RSTV 3) is not certified by any government. It is not legal to use in the US. I don't know Greece's laws but I would be surprised if this is legal even for a visitor.

The RSTV 2 is certified for use in the US.

BananaBoat · Mar 20, 2014

We were last in Greece 3 years ago. Basically no one uses car seats there and the quality of car interiors vary widely. I would not expect ISOFIX (Euro LATCH) in your vehicle, nor a locking seat belt. I actually think the RSTV is the ideal solution for this type of situation & have used it with my newly-turned-5 year old in Croatia last summer. It was perfect. She was fine with the regular seat belt on the flight.

I can promise you that no one in Greece will even notice the RSTV. Even in an accident, the police will likely just be pleasantly surprised that your child wasn't ejected from the car. Most kids we saw there were completely unrestrained - not even a seat belt & many vehicles held "extra" passengers (like 6 or 7 in a 5-passenger sedan). We traveled in Athens & a few of the islands.

While the RSTV looks unconventional when you are used to a harnessed seat, it definitely restrains a child better than booster - especially a NBB. We've had our RSTV for a few years now & have more than gotten our money's worth.

newyorkDOC · Mar 20, 2014

I meant the isofix part on the seat not the anchor on the car.

No US restraint will be legal to use here. There are no exceptions for visitors. So it's indifferent if OP brings a seat or an RSTV. Both are illegal.

Isofix anchors are mandatory now (iirc it became mandatory in 2009). Must rentals are newer models so will have them.

BananaBoat · Mar 20, 2014

newyorkDOC said:
I meant the isofix part on the seat not the anchor on the car. No US restraint will be legal to use here. There are no exceptions for visitors. So it's indifferent if OP brings a seat or an RSTV. Both are illegal. Isofix anchors are mandatory now (iirc it became mandatory in 2009). Must rentals are newer models so will have them.

Agreed 100%.
But the likelihood of any consequence of using a US seat in Greece is absolutely minimal. Additionally, car rentals in Greece vary widely. If you pay for a luxury rental car you might get one with ISOFIX. A mid-range vehicle could get you 2011 or a 1997 beater. I've seen both readily available on the lot.

To the OP - where will you get your rental? Athens? An island? Some islands don't have any vehicles & those that do tend to be older. You won't need a seat for the boat, but you might want some anti-nausea meds.

safeinthecar · Mar 20, 2014

newyorkDOC said:
I meant the isofix part on the seat not the anchor on the car.

Some US seats have the exact same type of connectors. Besides, how does the anchors on European seats affect the compatibility of the vehicle and a US carseat? The US carseat isn't being installed on the Euro carseat.

sunnymw · Mar 23, 2014

Yes, the RSTV 2 not the 3.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Safe-Traffic-System-Safer-Travel/dp/B009R79D46/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1395594051&sr=8-1&keywords=ride+safer+travel+vest+2"]Amazon.com: Safe Traffic System Ride Safer 2 Travel Vest, Blue, Small: Baby[/ame]

(Jake rides in one full time in my car and can buckle it himself)

MamanMag · Mar 24, 2014

SuzaBanana said:
We were last in Greece 3 years ago. Basically no one uses car seats there and the quality of car interiors vary widely. I would not expect ISOFIX (Euro LATCH) in your vehicle, nor a locking seat belt. I actually think the RSTV is the ideal solution for this type of situation & have used it with my newly-turned-5 year old in Croatia last summer. It was perfect. She was fine with the regular seat belt on the flight.

I can promise you that no one in Greece will even notice the RSTV. Even in an accident, the police will likely just be pleasantly surprised that your child wasn't ejected from the car. Most kids we saw there were completely unrestrained - not even a seat belt & many vehicles held "extra" passengers (like 6 or 7 in a 5-passenger sedan). We traveled in Athens & a few of the islands.

While the RSTV looks unconventional when you are used to a harnessed seat, it definitely restrains a child better than booster - especially a NBB. We've had our RSTV for a few years now & have more than gotten our money's worth.

Totally agree with this!! Being half Greek, I can tell you that it is common over there not to wear a seat belt and kids are most of the time not restraint!! It is SO scary!!! Actually I wouldn't even recommend driving if you're not used to Greek driving, they are crazy drivers!! I don't mean to scare you but I feel that I need to share this info with you, so you won't be in total shock when you get there... Actually, growing up, we were 6 in a VW Golf(rabbit here), us 4 kids, in the back with 2 in the middle sharing the same lap belt... And this was in Belgium

in Greece, most of the time we did the same but we knew A LOT of people who simply didn't use seatbelts... It hasn't changed!! My BIL never restrained his son and even put him in the front seat at seven!!! Thank God, they've never had an accident!!!

So, I would use a vest or a car seat, they won't even care about it being legal or not!! Your kiddos will be safe and that's what matters!!

Also, in Greece, people drive on the emergency lane! You will see cops directing traffic in barrels so drivers won't run over them!! It is amazing things you'll see there!!

Could a "native" pick you up at the airport so you won't have to drive? That's what we do when we go visit my family

Mag

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Car-Seat.Org

essnce629 · Apr 26, 2014

Ok, so I still haven't decided what I want to do. We are flying Alitalia which apparently is pretty unfamily-friendly and doesn't allow carseats. So I guess having a seat on the plane is out. I think I'm ok with that since DS2 is over 40lbs.

I don't think I want to go with the RSTV since it's so expensive and I really don't think we'll be driving all that much.

What about the Safety 1st Boostapak? That looks like a good compromise and I like that it's a backpack so would be easy to carry by DH or I. The price is much better and it looks more substantial than the Bubblebum (which I already have).

newyorkDOC · Apr 27, 2014

Maybe see if you can rent an RSTV from someone on here.

gigi · Apr 27, 2014

The Boostapak is AWESOME. Gives great belt fit and kids can carry it themselves! We never use our RSTV...my son vastly prefers the Boostapak.

essnce629 · Apr 29, 2014

Ok, so DH just told me that the drive from the airport in Greece to the opposite side of the island where the wedding will be held is a 90 minute drive!!!! I asked him before if there were any long drives since DS2 falls asleep in the car easily and he said no! I'm pretty sure DS2 will be jet-lagged and super tired from all the travelling and will for sure fall asleep on a 90 minute drive. He falls asleep daily on the 10 minute drive from our house to DS1's swim practice! So now I don't feel comfortable with DS2 sitting in a backless. Even almost 11 year old DS1 can barely sit up straight while asleep in the car! So I'm thinking of getting the new folding Harmony travel booster since it's a highback and will keep him supported while sleeping. We ended up booking an apartment in Rome, walking distance to all the sights we want to see, so we won't need a seat for there. So the booster would be used primarily for the 90 minute drive to and from the airport. I like the price too-- $52!

Does this seem like a good idea? I think it would be better for sleeping than the RSTV. Does anyone have this seat or tried it out? I will still pack my Bubblebum in my purse in case we end up in a taxi somewhere.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Harmony-Folding-Travel-Booster-Car-Seat/22301298

newyorkDOC · Apr 29, 2014

My dd is more secured to the seat in her RSTV than in her HBB. Mainly bc there's way more give in the seatbelt with the HBB. I guess on a longer trip I might be tempted to bring the headrest thing but we've never used it in 2.5 years.

BananaBoat · Apr 29, 2014

I also would (& did) choose an RSTV over a booster for that situation. My DD1 was newly 5 years old & never been boostered for our trip last summer which included an almost 2 hour drive to/from the airport. She fell asleep on both trips, but stayed in position nicely. I can only assume it was because since it feels like a harnessed seat, she slept like she would sleep in a harnessed seat - upright.

As for comfort, she's never complained about the RSTV being uncomfortable in any way.

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