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  1. #1
    Senior Community Member lpperry's Avatar
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    interesting customer service regarding expirations

    I called Harmony Juvenile customer service because I bought a new Defender that was a year old. I was planning on keeping it anyway because of the good price, but I thought it wouldn't hurt to call to see if they would swap it out with a newer one.

    The lady on the phone said: The Harmony Defenders have a 10 year expiration. An expiration is just a guideline. It doesn't matter if you use the seat for 11 or 12 years. We just don't want the seat past down through generations. That is why they have expirations.

    I understand that there has to be a window and the seat doesn't just break down the month of expiration. I just have never heard of a company encouraging use past the expiration.

    Oliver (5 years) ff Radian RXT, Claudia (3 1/2 years) rf Radian RXT, Avery (2 years months) rf Coccoro, Vivian (3-14) rf Coccoro, Madeline (9) Literider,

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  3. #2
    CPS Technician lovemybabies924's Avatar
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    Woah
    *STACY* Mom to: Sage-9, Nevaeh-6.5, Junior-5, Nayeli-1.5

  4. #3
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    Re: interesting customer service regarding expirations

    Well that makes no sense, whoever heard of a 10 year generation?

    I'd be interested in knowing if this is a rogue customer service agent or if everyone at Harmony says the same thing. I suspect the former.
    Cutie #1 (13 years) 5-stepping
    Cutie #2 (10 years) riding in a Safety 1st Incognito

    Cutie #3 (7 years) riding in a Chicco KidFit
    Cutie #4 (6 years) riding in a Frontier
    Cutie #5 (3 years) riding in a Nuna Rava

  5. #4
    Senior Community Member lpperry's Avatar
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    Re: interesting customer service regarding expirations

    I guess what do you expect from a company who calls their combination seat "Harmony Defender Convertible"

    Oliver (5 years) ff Radian RXT, Claudia (3 1/2 years) rf Radian RXT, Avery (2 years months) rf Coccoro, Vivian (3-14) rf Coccoro, Madeline (9) Literider,

  6. #5
    CPS Fanatic 1mommy's Avatar
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    Re: interesting customer service regarding expirations

    That reminds me of when I called up Toys r us complaining that I bought a 2 year old seat, they told because it had been in a box and had no wear to disregard the expiration date. Thanks. But I can't believe the company's own customer service would say that. I wonder if you emailed them if they would answer the same way.
    Mommy to Jake, a.k.a Booger Breath #1- born March 2012 and Sawyer, my little "Soy Bean"- born May 2014

    Playing the Car Seat Shuffle between a True Fit Premier, Guide 65, Graco MySize, Graco Milestone and a Maxi Cosi Pria

  7. #6
    Senior Community Member happiness-and-balance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjordan View Post
    Well that makes no sense, whoever heard of a 10 year generation?
    , fact.
    -Angela

  8. #7
    Moderator - CPS Technician safeinthecar's Avatar
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    Re: interesting customer service regarding expirations

    A major rep from Recaro told me more or less the same thing. That the margin of error on expiration dates was so large that she wouldn't think twice about going a year or two over the date, as long as she knew for sure it had been treated nicely and that the margin of error was intentional because people don't generally pay attention to the dates anyway.

    I personally wouldn't go far over a date, but a few months to get an almost there kid to the next stage or to save up money doesn't scare me.
    Kimberly
    Proud mommy of Becky 18! Danny 15 Hope 12~Auntie to William-14, David-10, and Logan 2~

  9. #8
    Moderator - CPS Technician
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    Re: interesting customer service regarding expirations

    Quote Originally Posted by safeinthecar View Post
    A major rep from Recaro told me more or less the same thing. That the margin of error on expiration dates was so large that she wouldn't think twice about going a year or two over the date, as long as she knew for sure it had been treated nicely and that the margin of error was intentional because people don't generally pay attention to the dates anyway.

    I personally wouldn't go far over a date, but a few months to get an almost there kid to the next stage or to save up money doesn't scare me.
    That reason makes a lot more sense than the "generation" reason!
    Cutie #1 (13 years) 5-stepping
    Cutie #2 (10 years) riding in a Safety 1st Incognito

    Cutie #3 (7 years) riding in a Chicco KidFit
    Cutie #4 (6 years) riding in a Frontier
    Cutie #5 (3 years) riding in a Nuna Rava

  10. #9
    CPS Technician christineka's Avatar
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    Re: interesting customer service regarding expirations

    Quote Originally Posted by lpperry View Post
    I guess what do you expect from a company who calls their combination seat "Harmony Defender Convertible"
    Harmony is a Canadian company. In Canada a seat that converts from harness to booster is called a "convertible". Very annoying when mixed with usa terminology.

    I have to wonder, if the expiration for the defender is not an issue, why not make longer lifespans for the backless boosters? I would be more comfy using a backless booster beyond expiration, than I am a harnessed seat- especially one that is 10 years old before it expires.
    Christine *mom* to

    Dd1 age 17 (seatbelt), Dd2 age 15 (seatbelt), Ds1 age 14 (seatbelt), Dd4 age 12 (Seatbelt), Ds2 age 10 (Probooster), Dd4 age 7 (rstv), and dd5 age 1 (rfing Pria)

  11. #10
    Senior Community Member lpperry's Avatar
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    Re: interesting customer service regarding expirations

    Quote Originally Posted by christineka View Post
    Harmony is a Canadian company. In Canada a seat that converts from harness to booster is called a "convertible". Very annoying when mixed with usa terminology.

    I have to wonder, if the expiration for the defender is not an issue, why not make longer lifespans for the backless boosters? I would be more comfy using a backless booster beyond expiration, than I am a harnessed seat- especially one that is 10 years old before it expires.
    I am so glad you told me that about the Canadian terminology! Now I feel better about the company.

    Oliver (5 years) ff Radian RXT, Claudia (3 1/2 years) rf Radian RXT, Avery (2 years months) rf Coccoro, Vivian (3-14) rf Coccoro, Madeline (9) Literider,

  12. #11
    CPS Technician tiggercat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by christineka View Post

    Harmony is a Canadian company. In Canada a seat that converts from harness to booster is called a "convertible". Very annoying when mixed with usa terminology.

    I have to wonder, if the expiration for the defender is not an issue, why not make longer lifespans for the backless boosters? I would be more comfy using a backless booster beyond expiration, than I am a harnessed seat- especially one that is 10 years old before it expires.
    Actually, this is incorrect.

    Officially in Canadia, we have infant seats, infant/child seats, infant/child/booster seats, child/boosters and boosters. We could have child seats, but no manufacturer makes one at this time. This nomenclature is specific and relates to the standards the child restraint myst meet.

    The terms convertible and combination are used only to explain or bring parallels with US terminology. They have become more commonly and incorrectly used in recent years, but it's not a Canadian terminology thing.
    Natalie, CRST-I, mum of Greg (15), Megan (10), Benjamin and Samuel (6).


  13. #12
    CPS Technician christineka's Avatar
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    Re: interesting customer service regarding expirations

    Quote Originally Posted by tiggercat View Post
    Actually, this is incorrect.

    Officially in Canadia, we have infant seats, infant/child seats, infant/child/booster seats, child/boosters and boosters. We could have child seats, but no manufacturer makes one at this time. This nomenclature is specific and relates to the standards the child restraint myst meet.

    The terms convertible and combination are used only to explain or bring parallels with US terminology. They have become more commonly and incorrectly used in recent years, but it's not a Canadian terminology thing.
    What I repeated was what I was told, when complaining about the v7 being called a "convertible". The Canadians told me what was what.
    Christine *mom* to

    Dd1 age 17 (seatbelt), Dd2 age 15 (seatbelt), Ds1 age 14 (seatbelt), Dd4 age 12 (Seatbelt), Ds2 age 10 (Probooster), Dd4 age 7 (rstv), and dd5 age 1 (rfing Pria)

  14. #13
    CPS Technician tiggercat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by christineka View Post

    What I repeated was what I was told, when complaining about the v7 being called a "convertible". The Canadians told me what was what.
    *shrug* That is definitely not the case in my area, coalition, or in the CPSAC materials.
    Natalie, CRST-I, mum of Greg (15), Megan (10), Benjamin and Samuel (6).


  15. #14
    Moderator - CPST Instructor Pixelated's Avatar
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    Re: interesting customer service regarding expirations

    Quote Originally Posted by christineka View Post
    What I repeated was what I was told, when complaining about the v7 being called a "convertible". The Canadians told me what was what.
    Huh, I wonder where that came from, because I've never heard of that either. Interesting!

    I do know that the terms convertible and combination are somewhat regional as to what they're actually referring to, and therefore I do not use them ever, instead using the names tiggercat listed above (infant/child, etc). How odd!
    Jen ~ Canadian CPST-IT with CPSAC

  16. #15
    CPS Technician canadiangie's Avatar
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    Re: interesting customer service regarding expirations

    Quote Originally Posted by Pixelated View Post
    Huh, I wonder where that came from, because I've never heard of that either. Interesting!

    I do know that the terms convertible and combination are somewhat regional as to what they're actually referring to, and therefore I do not use them ever, instead using the names tiggercat listed above (infant/child, etc). How odd!
    I use the term convertible all the time. I have never, not once, been asked what "infant/child seat" would be best. It's always "convertible" or "big kid seat" or "next stage seat". I'm waiting for the day I hear infant/child from a parent, and if it happens I will probably be shocked. Spoken outloud the term infant/child used in a sentence doesn't really make much sense. It actually has a jargon like feel to me, and I try to never use jargon.

    When Peg called their seat the Convertible I smiled. I think it's hilarious because its such a bad word up here.

    I also get a little philosophically hung up on the fact that infant seems to denote rear facing and child seems to denote forward facing. And most people think of infants as under age 1 or so. The term Convertible simply means the seat converts from rear facing to forward facing - no age or milestone implied.

    I get why we need different terminology, and I know there's a translation requirement (French/English), but man our terminology seems .. funny to me. So Canadian of us.

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  18. #16
    CPS Fanatic bubbaray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by christineka View Post
    Harmony is a Canadian company. In Canada a seat that converts from harness to booster is called a "convertible". Very annoying when mixed with usa terminology. .
    I have never heard that.

    The Canadian term for a FFg harness to booster seat is a combination seat.
    Melissa

    DD#1, April 2004, FFg in a Pink Harmony Literider & Onyx Parkway SG
    DD#2, January 2007, FFg in a Pink Monterey & Purple with Pink Hearts HBTB

    Riding in my 2010 Toyota RAV4 and DH's 2011 Ford 150 Crew Cab

  19. #17
    CPS Technician canadiangie's Avatar
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    Re: interesting customer service regarding expirations

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbaray View Post
    I have never heard that.

    The Canadian term for a FFg harness to booster seat is a combination seat.
    No it isn't. It's some lengthy term with forward slashes. Lol. Eta - child/booster. Imagine you're on the phone and someone is asking about a harnessed booster or a booster with a 5 point harness, and you reply that they're looking for a child booster seat. It would turn into a game of who's on first pretty fast. Or they might think you are suggesting they move to just a booster. Hence, I do use the term combination seat and quickly continue explaining that these seats combine a 5 point harness and a booster seat.

    I'm just bad, I tell ya.

  20. #18
    CPS Fanatic bubbaray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canadiangie View Post
    No it isn't. It's some lengthy term with forward slashes. Lol. Eta - child/booster.
    Not in BC. Everyone here calls them combination seats.
    Melissa

    DD#1, April 2004, FFg in a Pink Harmony Literider & Onyx Parkway SG
    DD#2, January 2007, FFg in a Pink Monterey & Purple with Pink Hearts HBTB

    Riding in my 2010 Toyota RAV4 and DH's 2011 Ford 150 Crew Cab

  21. #19
    CPS Technician canadiangie's Avatar
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    Re: interesting customer service regarding expirations

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbaray View Post
    Not in BC. Everyone here calls them combination seats.
    Oh trust me, I agree.

  22. #20
    CPS Technician tiggercat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canadiangie View Post

    I use the term convertible all the time. I have never, not once, been asked what "infant/child seat" would be best. It's always "convertible" or "big kid seat" or "next stage seat". I'm waiting for the day I hear infant/child from a parent, and if it happens I will probably be shocked. Spoken outloud the term infant/child used in a sentence doesn't really make much sense. It actually has a jargon like feel to me, and I try to never use jargon.

    When Peg called their seat the Convertible I smiled. I think it's hilarious because its such a bad word up here.

    I also get a little philosophically hung up on the fact that infant seems to denote rear facing and child seems to denote forward facing. And most people think of infants as under age 1 or so. The term Convertible simply means the seat converts from rear facing to forward facing - no age or milestone implied.

    I get why we need different terminology, and I know there's a translation requirement (French/English), but man our terminology seems .. funny to me. So Canadian of us.
    I don't disagree. I often say "The next seat you will need is an infant/child convertible seat, the big seat that goes rearfacing and then forward facing" or similar to make it more understandable.

    What I was replying to originally was that we call child/booster seats "convertibles". We don't do that. They would be officially child/boosters, or less formally, combination seats.
    Last edited by tiggercat; 01-10-2014 at 07:32 PM.
    Natalie, CRST-I, mum of Greg (15), Megan (10), Benjamin and Samuel (6).


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