moving to boosters, advice please :)

Unregistered · Jan 7, 2014

My 5.5 yr old is at the top of her harness. My very tall 8.5 yr old still does not fit the seat belt in the middle row of our Mazda 5 (she's currently in a high back booster). I want to move the 5.5 yr old over to the HBB and move my 8.5 yr old to a LBB. I have never used a LBB. It seems they come with belt guides that are on a strap but I've never seen anyone use those. Can someone tell me how to appropriately use a LBB please? (I'm good with the HBB)

And I want to move the 8.5 yr old to a LBB because she is starting to complain that she is taller than everyone else in her class (true) and is the only one in a HBB (also true). Honestly, she's one of the only kids in her class that is in a booster at all... The rest of the parents ditched the boosters the day the kids turned 8 regardless of how the kids fit in the seatbelt.

Also - is there something I should be looking for when we're choosing a LBB? Right now my criteria is 'fits in the seat well enough that it's easy to buckle the seat belt' and my daughter's criteria is 'teal/aqua and or black please'

Keeanh · Jan 7, 2014

Hi!! Welcome to Car-seat.org

Congrats on keeping your kids safe in seats, even when you don't legally have to.

A tall 8.5yo probably won't need the belt positioner on a backless. I've never used the positioner. Maybe I'm just lucky with the seatbelt geometry in my vehicles. Here's a pdf that explains better than I could: http://www.bubblebum.co/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/should-belt-instructions.pdf

As for which backless, they all do pretty much the same thing. I would show her some pics and get an idea what she has in mind. Then maybe take her to a store to try some out. Or do what I did -- buy a bunch and bring them home to try (check that you can return the ones you aren't keeping!).

Regardless of what seat you choose, I would probably get a Literider, Topside, or Incognito to have on hand as a spare. They're on the smaller side so are easy to cart around and are best bets for fitting in tight spots in other people's cars. If she's embarrassed about being in a booster, she might really like an Incognito as a primary seat. As long as she's over 60lbs (I think that's the minimum).

ETA: ACK I didn't notice this was in the Canadian forum! We don't have the Incognito here. So I'm going to change that to Literider or Apramo as my recommended spares. The Apramo is at Canadian Tire, often on sale for $15. There's also the Sparco backless at Canadian Tire that's $25 and is the Apramo with cushy padding.

Keeanh · Jan 7, 2014

Here are the 2013 best-bets. You can scroll through and look at the backless ones to get started:
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/child-boosters/best-bets

tiggercat · Jan 7, 2014

Since you are in Canada, I just wanted to double check a few things:

- 5yo is over 40lbs?
- current hbb is not expired? What brand? Did you like it?
- height and weight of 8yo?

Good job keeping her in a booster! My own 8yo has taken to demonstrating the 5ish step test for seatbelt readiness to her friends when we drive anyone, and then showing them where our extra backless booster lives...

The incognito is not yet available in Canada, not sure if the topside is (that one has a weird belt routing). The harmony lightrider is a great little booster but my daughter doesn't find it great on long rides (but then she prefers her hbb). Maybe look at the harmony Cruz? I just saw them at target and it looks very nice for older kids and pretty unobtrusive.

MommyShannon · Jan 7, 2014

My daughter is 8 and primarily uses a lbb though she sometimes requests her hbb (Parkway SGL) if she's tired and for longer drives. One major thing to check is that she still has proper head support in the backless. Everyone in the vehicle should have head support at least to the tops of their ears.

Keeanh · Jan 7, 2014

tiggercat said:
The incognito is not yet available in Canada, not sure if the topside is (that one has a weird belt routing). The harmony lightrider is a great little booster but my daughter doesn't find it great on long rides (but then she prefers her hbb). Maybe look at the harmony Cruz? I just saw them at target and it looks very nice for older kids and pretty unobtrusive.

Thanks Natalie! I got here from the "New Posts" page and missed that it was Canadian. DOH! I changed my spares recs to Literider & Apramo/Sparco. I didn't know we had the Cruz here. I've actually never seen one in person. I think those are more comfortable for bigger kids, based on a comparison Christineka did a while back. My 80lb 4'11 (skinny-ish) 11yo still likes the $15 Apramo better than any other seat he's tried LOL.

tiggercat · Jan 7, 2014

Keeanh said:
Thanks Natalie! I got here from the "New Posts" page and missed that it was Canadian. DOH! I changed my spares recs to Literider & Apramo/Sparco. I didn't know we had the Cruz here. I've actually never seen one in person. My 80lb 4'11 (skinny-ish) 11yo still likes the $15 Apramo better than any other seat he's tried LOL.

Actually I am glad to hear that wrt the Apramo. I haven't used that one simply because Megan is happier in her parkway (and honestly she makes me nervous in a backless, too much freedom of movement) but I have wondered about it.

I saw the Cruz last week and it looks very nice.

Pixelated · Jan 7, 2014

We do have the TopSide at Babies R Us for $20. And the Cruz I think is a Target exclusive.

Unregistered · Jan 9, 2014

great! This is fantastic thanks everyone!

My 8.5 yr old has been in a first generation (like I bought it about 2 weeks after it became available) Britax Frontier in booster mode. My 5.5 yr old has been in a true fit. I know she could go in the frontier in harness mode and I may still do that but it is getting increasingly difficult to get her to comply with a harness since most of her friends are in LBB. She is between 45 and 50lbs and she sits well in a HBB, especially knowing that I am very willing to put that harness back on her if she doesn't sit well! (also - I have to contact Britax if I put the harness back in because I lost the screw for harness mode for it 2 moves and 3 yrs ago!) She's been using a HBB occasionally for short trips for a few months to get her used to riding in one and to learn how to stay safe.

My 8.5 yr old is 4'8" at least but probably closer to 4'9". She's somewhere between 75 and 80 lbs. She is fine in some seats with just a seatbelt but she just doesn't fit our middle seat well. Her knees don't reach the end of the seat and she slouches. The seat belt also runs a little high on her without a booster. She just needs to be a bit taller and for the minimal cost of a LBB, I'll keep her in that until she fits the belt/seat better. There are good adjustable head rests in the seat. I know that she needs a headrest behind her head (I spend a lot of time adjusting the headrest on the seats in the back row of our car to fit the people in them. It worries me to see passengers in cars with no head support!)

Good to know about the belt guide thinger. So basically that's just to position the belt if you're not tall enough? (or basically when you're using a LBB and your child should still be harnessed or at very least in a HBB? sigh. You shouldn't be allowed to use one unless it fits!!!)

I saw the Cruz (Target is close to me) took a picture and showed it to my daughter. She loves the blue one so I'll pick one up and see how it fits in our seat. The sides of my middle row seats curve up, I need a somewhat narrow base. The Cruz looked like it would fit well in my seats)

I'm kind of tired of car seat battles. I kept both kids rear facing until past 2 and with my oldest, I spent a lot of time defending that decision. Luckily everyone in my family is on board with keeping the kids safe but we look forward to the simplicity of everyone being big enough to be in seat belts or LBB! Even 1 HBB and 1 LBB will be nice in terms of switching seats in and out of grandparents cars (nobody has ever complained and my FIL has gotten really good at installing our seats. He gets a rock solid install every time or he won't drive. They ask for a refresher on how to buckle the kids every time they drive them anywhere. So thankful for that!)

Last question... My true fit is 2 yrs old, but I bought it before the regulations changed. Can I give that seat to someone who needs it? It hasn't been in any accidents, has been very well cared for and is not expired until Jan 2017. I still have the manual and the infant insert.

tiggercat · Jan 9, 2014

Unregistered said:
great! This is fantastic thanks everyone!

My 8.5 yr old has been in a first generation (like I bought it about 2 weeks after it became available) Britax Frontier in booster mode. My 5.5 yr old has been in a true fit. I know she could go in the frontier in harness mode and I may still do that but it is getting increasingly difficult to get her to comply with a harness since most of her friends are in LBB. She is between 45 and 50lbs and she sits well in a HBB, especially knowing that I am very willing to put that harness back on her if she doesn't sit well! (also - I have to contact Britax if I put the harness back in because I lost the screw for harness mode for it 2 moves and 3 yrs ago!) She's been using a HBB occasionally for short trips for a few months to get her used to riding in one and to learn how to stay safe.

My 8.5 yr old is 4'8" at least but probably closer to 4'9". She's somewhere between 75 and 80 lbs. She is fine in some seats with just a seatbelt but she just doesn't fit our middle seat well. Her knees don't reach the end of the seat and she slouches. The seat belt also runs a little high on her without a booster. She just needs to be a bit taller and for the minimal cost of a LBB, I'll keep her in that until she fits the belt/seat better. There are good adjustable head rests in the seat. I know that she needs a headrest behind her head (I spend a lot of time adjusting the headrest on the seats in the back row of our car to fit the people in them. It worries me to see passengers in cars with no head support!)

Good to know about the belt guide thinger. So basically that's just to position the belt if you're not tall enough? (or basically when you're using a LBB and your child should still be harnessed or at very least in a HBB? sigh. You shouldn't be allowed to use one unless it fits!!!)

I saw the Cruz (Target is close to me) took a picture and showed it to my daughter. She loves the blue one so I'll pick one up and see how it fits in our seat. The sides of my middle row seats curve up, I need a somewhat narrow base. The Cruz looked like it would fit well in my seats)

I'm kind of tired of car seat battles. I kept both kids rear facing until past 2 and with my oldest, I spent a lot of time defending that decision. Luckily everyone in my family is on board with keeping the kids safe but we look forward to the simplicity of everyone being big enough to be in seat belts or LBB! Even 1 HBB and 1 LBB will be nice in terms of switching seats in and out of grandparents cars (nobody has ever complained and my FIL has gotten really good at installing our seats. He gets a rock solid install every time or he won't drive. They ask for a refresher on how to buckle the kids every time they drive them anywhere. So thankful for that!)

Last question... My true fit is 2 yrs old, but I bought it before the regulations changed. Can I give that seat to someone who needs it? It hasn't been in any accidents, has been very well cared for and is not expired until Jan 2017. I still have the manual and the infant insert.

It sounds like you have everything covered! I hope she likes the cruz in practice

As for the True Fit, is it one with the anti-rebound bar? I vaguely remember a discussion where the company said they were always compliant with the new regulations, in which case it would be ok to pass on provided you are sure about it's history (no crashes, no harness washing, no checking on airplanes, no tumbles down the stairs, etc.). I would contact the manufacturer of the seat and ask whether or not the model you have is compliant, keep a copy of the email to CYA, and then you will know what your options are

Unregistered · Jan 9, 2014

my true fit does NOT have the anti-rebound bar. I'm pretty sure it is NOT 2012 compliant. I bought it just before the law changed on a sale because the buckle on our Marathon popped open twice while driving (once before cleaning and once after) and we needed a new safe seat NOW! It was right before the law changed and the True Fit was on super sale. It also allowed me to flip my child back rear facing again for a few months because it had a higher RF weight limit than our old Marathon did.

So, can I pass on a non-compliant seat? It seems sad that I have to throw it out when, if my child was still smaller, I could keep using it. It's got a lot of life left in it, I'm the only owner and I have taken good care of it. No airline travel, no dropping, no washing of straps...

But I don't want to break the law and I want to ensure that other kids are safe.

tiggercat · Jan 9, 2014

Unregistered said:
my true fit does NOT have the anti-rebound bar. I'm pretty sure it is NOT 2012 compliant. I bought it just before the law changed on a sale because the buckle on our Marathon popped open twice while driving (once before cleaning and once after) and we needed a new safe seat NOW! It was right before the law changed and the True Fit was on super sale. It also allowed me to flip my child back rear facing again for a few months because it had a higher RF weight limit than our old Marathon did.

So, can I pass on a non-compliant seat? It seems sad that I have to throw it out when, if my child was still smaller, I could keep using it. It's got a lot of life left in it, I'm the only owner and I have taken good care of it. No airline travel, no dropping, no washing of straps...

But I don't want to break the law and I want to ensure that other kids are safe.

If it does not have the ARB you are correct, it is non-compliant. Therefore you cannot sell, loan, or give it away. It does seem unfortunate, I know.

Dillipop · Jan 9, 2014

You guys have clek Olli's up there, right? I use 2 of them for my 7 and 10 year olds in the second row if our mazda5. They fit the kids great and give an awesome belt fit. Both kids find them comfy and I love that they latch in.

Keeanh · Jan 9, 2014

I would keep the seat in case you need it for something in the future. Also, FWIW (and at the risk of being flamed), I personally pass on and loan out non-compliant seats to friends who know about seats and know what they're getting. It's a health Canada regulation, not a Motor Vehicle Act law. The seats are still legal to use. So I'm the one breaking the law, not my friends. I'm willing to take that risk, just like I'm willing to take the risk of passing on a drop-side crib or a Bumbo for the next owner to use as they see fit. We're all grown-ups and I trust my friends not to sue me.

Adventuredad · Jan 10, 2014

Your 8.5 year old is likely safer in a LBB than in a HBB or a harnessed seat, according to fairly recent research by Arbogast and Jacobsson separately. I would let your child select an appropriate LBB in a her favorite color. Perhaps give her a few different appropriate models to select from.

Purchase three extra LBB as well. A couple to have in your car when transporting extra kids and one to give away/loan to some paretns. ALways useful.

Keep in mind that the main purpose of a HBB and LBB isn't to create a good belt position across the hest. This is desirable but has very little impact on safety.

Main reason for LBB and HBB is to lift the child up from the seat and place the hip part of the seat belt further down since kids under 10 have very small and round hip bones, iliac crest, compared to adults. The small and round bones easily lead to submarining.

Brianna · Jan 10, 2014

Adventuredad said:
safer in a LBB than in a HBB or a harnessed seat, according to fairly recent research by Arbogast and Jacobsson separately

That's the first I'm hearing of that, would you have a link?

tiggercat · Jan 10, 2014

Keeanh said:
I would keep the seat in case you need it for something in the future. Also, FWIW (and at the risk of being flamed), I personally pass on and loan out non-compliant seats to friends who know about seats and know what they're getting. It's a health Canada regulation, not a Motor Vehicle Act law. The seats are still legal to use. So I'm the one breaking the law, not my friends. I'm willing to take that risk, just like I'm willing to take the risk of passing on a drop-side crib or a Bumbo for the next owner to use as they see fit. We're all grown-ups and I trust my friends not to sue me.

I may have had some seats dissapeared from my basement into friend's vehicles

but I can't in good conscience advise someone to break the law.

Unregistered · Jan 10, 2014

well then, I'll make sure that I allow someone to choose whether or not they want to use my old seat after telling them that it's non-compliant. I might leave it on my front porch and see if my friend coming over accidentally puts it in her car...

The Cruz fits GREAT in the car and my daughter loves it

I have an older LBB that was given to us that I use as a spare seat. With now 3 boosters I'm feeling pretty good about being able to get kids around pretty safely. Thank you everyone for your help! You guys are great!

moving to boosters, advice please :)

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