Facts about restraints on aircraft?

thekatie

New member
A friend just told me that while she was waiting to board a plane, toddler and car seat sitting by her, two different flight attendants told her that it is not safer to have a child in a restraint on the plane. They did say that for an infant, a car seat would be safer than being a lap baby, but once the child can sit by him/herself a restraint was less safe than just the seatbelt. Something about because the car seats aren't tethered and are only secured with the seatbelt, they would flip forward and hit the seat in front.

They did NOT forbid her from using her seat, and she did use the car seat despite their claims of "poor safety", but then she started having doubts and asked for opinion. I gave mine (that they're wrong, wrong, wrong about a child being safer in just the airplane seatbelt once he can sit up), but told her I would ask here in case anyone had a more technical answer.

I wasn't sure if this should be here, chat, or elsewhere - if I'm in the wrong subcategory please move this!
 
ADS

T4K

Well-known member
I am always shocked when I read these posts. I have flown a kazillion times with my daughter in a seat and no one has ever said anything. They ONCE have asked to see the "approved for aircraft" sticker. That's it.

I'm guessing we have been on at least 50 different aircraft with a seat...maybe not a kazillion.
 

cantabdad

New member
The flight attendants were incorrect, and to the extent that they discouraged the parent from using an appropriate CRS, the incident should probably be reported to the airline and to FAA. It's inconsistent with FAA policy, as noted.

That being said, some of the limited research that has been done on CRS performance in aircraft does show somewhat disappointing results for forward-facing carseats; in some sled tests the lapbelt alone was equally safe or even better for the 3-yr old test dummy.
http://trid.trb.org/view.aspx?id=725474

However, these results are from the early 1990s and were largely due to incompatibilities between carseat design and the aircraft seatbelt geometry. There has been significant progress since then, and I don't doubt for a moment that kids of toddler age (under 40 lbs.) are safer in a carseat. It's disturbing that a flight attendant would suggest otherwise, especially to a parent who has taken the time and trouble to carry one onboard.
 

thekatie

New member
Thanks!

I am always shocked when I read these posts. I have flown a kazillion times with my daughter in a seat and no one has ever said anything. They ONCE have asked to see the "approved for aircraft" sticker.
I am too, really. The "rudest" a flight attendant has been about my bringing a seat on board was when one took the seat for me and carried it to my row, but said in a (not really rude at all) slightly sarcastic voice "you have to set it up though - I just haul them, I don't install them!" I don't mind showing the approved sticker, since that is the requirement, and other than that no one has ever mentioned anything to me on a plane.

The flight attendants were incorrect, and to the extent that they discouraged the parent from using an appropriate CRS, the incident should probably be reported to the airline and to FAA. It's inconsistent with FAA policy, as noted. That being said, some of the limited research that has been done on CRS performance in aircraft does show somewhat disappointing results for forward-facing carseats; in some sled tests the lapbelt alone was equally safe or even better for the 3-yr old test dummy. http://trid.trb.org/view.aspx?id=725474 However, these results are from the early 1990s and were largely due to incompatibilities between carseat design and the aircraft seatbelt geometry. There has been significant progress since then, and I don't doubt for a moment that kids of toddler age (under 40 lbs.) are safer in a carseat. It's disturbing that a flight attendant would suggest otherwise, especially to a parent who has taken the time and trouble to carry one onboard.

The last time I flew was in October and I do remember thinking about how airplane seatbelts don't "lock" (I always seem to loosen mine to the point of needing to tighten it again just by leaning forward or even just shifting in the seat). But my (highly unscientific and unprofessional) opinion was that being a projectile in the seat and having the shell protecting you was better than being a projectile all alone. I wonder if they have done more recent studies on that though. That would be interesting.

They never told her "do not use this" or anything like that. Nothing actually telling her she can't or she shouldn't, in those exact words. Just that it wasn't as safe as just being in the seatbelt.
 

Eclipsepearl

New member
I'm a former Flight Attendant and I've never heard that.

What airline was this? Your friend really needs to contact them and let them know about this incident. These F/A's were in the wrong and the airline should correct it. No excuses!
 

jjordan

Moderator
To play devil's advocate a bit here, the only way we can know for sure which is safer is if it has been studied. I was unaware of any studies, though cantabdad linked one above. I wonder if there has been a more recent study done. Perhaps the flight attendants in question were going off the study cantabdad linked?

The FA's certainly should be aware of the FAA policy and not go "rogue" by giving their own suggestions. However, without a study backing the increased safety of a harnessed seat, it is *possible* that they are actually correct.
 

ketchupqueen

CPST and ketchup snob
Staff member
The NTSB has some sled tests of rf seats on airline seats that show they perform fine from what I could see- they don't loosen and contain the child properly. I am betting that modern crs installed properly do better than a lap belt for small children.

In addition, turbulence leads to up and down motion more than forward and I'm betting a harness is lashes better there.

Regardless of what's better for the child on the plane- if they do equally as well then there is no loss to taking it on board, and there is a benefit in being guaranteed an undamaged, not-lost seat at the other end once you need it in the car.
 

safeinthecar

Moderator - CPS Technician
Thanks!


I do remember thinking about how airplane seatbelts don't "lock" (I always seem to loosen mine to the point of needing to tighten it again just by leaning forward or even just shifting in the seat).

Yes, they do. A non locking seat belt would be about as safe as 150 foot bungee jump attached to a 100 ft high bridge. They are basic locking latchplates with a lever release. As long as the webbing is parallel to the buckle, it locks. The difference is that the buckle is roughly in the center, so if it sits on a more rounded part of your body it can loosen a bit under normal movement. It will lock under sudden force because the belt will flatten out the soft tissue as it catches on hard bone. (As a side note, most people wear it up around their hips like a car seatbelt instead of flat across the thighs like it is designed to be worn.) a car seat belt path is not rounded, so it WILL lock every time.
 
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thekatie

New member
Thanks again everyone! I'm not certain which airline, but am asking.

Safeinthecar - thank you. I always assumed they had to somehow lock in some way because yeah, not really a safety feature otherwise, but they really do always seem to move. It's been something I've wondered for years even before I began to think about car seats.
 

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