Interesting things I learned at my special needs car seat class today.

zactayaus

Well-known member
Something interesting from my special needs car seat class today with Joe Colella. He told us that it is not true that all car seats, at the correct infant angle, are at 45 degrees. He said that all RF car seats must not be able to rotate backward more than 70 degrees in a crash (that's how they are crash tested) and therefore the indicators/lines to indicate correct angle are all at different degrees to accommodate this. He demonstrated this with a Comfy Carry (very reclined at proper angle) and an Embrace (very upright at proper angle). He also said that's why a lot of seats are coming out with dual level indicators, because a smaller lighter baby is going to rotate the seat back less than a bigger heavier baby. He also said that if a car seat and a car manufacturer allow for light touching/bracing that that is actually safer than having a space between the car seat and the vehicle seat. He said that in a crash the car seat is going to hit the vehicle seat regardless of the space in between the two (he said you'd need 12-18 inches of space for this not to happen). Therefore if there is a space then a "second" collision happens for the baby (1st being the actual crash, 2nd being the collision with the vehicle seat). If the seat is already touching then that 2nd collision doesn't happen or happens at less forces. Hope that all made sense!

ETA: And he also said that Australian RF tethering tested better than the Swedish (most commonly used) method. I did not know this.
 
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Pixels

New member
You should have learned the first part in regular tech class.

The correct angle is the one that the manufacturer dictates. If the manufacturer indicates that 55 degrees is the correct installation angle, then that is the correct installation angle. If the manufacturer indicates that 32 degrees is the correct installation angle, then that is the correct installation angle.

The only way seats are tested is at the angle indicated by the manufacturer. The manufacturer can and will adjust the angle to get proper performance out of the seat.
 

zactayaus

Well-known member
You should have learned the first part in regular tech class.

The correct angle is the one that the manufacturer dictates. If the manufacturer indicates that 55 degrees is the correct installation angle, then that is the correct installation angle. If the manufacturer indicates that 32 degrees is the correct installation angle, then that is the correct installation angle.

The only way seats are tested is at the angle indicated by the manufacturer. The manufacturer can and will adjust the angle to get proper performance out of the seat.

IDK. Guess I was under the delusion that all infant seats were at a 45 degree angle as was pretty much the entire class.
 

wavegal

New member
Sounds about right. Making me wish I had picked his brain more last week. Interesting on Australian vs Swedish tethering as well
 

finn

New member
My thoughts were that Australian and Swedish tethering served different purposes, Australian prevented over rotation and Swedish prevented rebound? How can one do better than the other when they do different things?
 

Minnesota

CPST Instructor
I like the explanation of this better than any I've heard before.

When I went through tech class, it was still in the time of using folded paper triangles to find 45 degrees because "sometimes the angle indicators are wrong", and it's taken a mind-shift to get back to truly relying on and trusting the indicator.

The tech classes now teach that the built-in indicators are an essential part of the seat and should be consulted to ensure a proper install. It's good to have more information to back that up.
 

zactayaus

Well-known member
My thoughts were that Australian and Swedish tethering served different purposes, Australian prevented over rotation and Swedish prevented rebound? How can one do better than the other when they do different things?

They tested for neck loads in frontal collisions with each method and the Australian method had better numbers.
 

Brigala

CPST Instructor
I learned both of these tidbits - the one about bracing being safer and the one about australian tethering providing more safety benefit than swedish tethering - in a supplemental CEU class I took a year or two ago.

It was interesting... with the bracing thing, our teacher gave us a ton of data explaining how it was safer and why and by how much, even though the seats tested were ones that didn't allow for it, and then proceeded to tell us never to brace anyway because of advanced air bag sensors.

I still follow all manufacturer's instructions when advising others, but it makes me feel a little better if one of my Dorel seats "kisses" or lightly "brushes" the front seats, if necessary. It also makes me feel better about my heavily braced Radian. None of my vehicles have advanced air bag sensors of any kind.
 

Carrie_R

Ambassador - CPS Technician
I just have to say how jealous I am that you had class with Joe Colella. He is one of my very favorite (maybe singular favorite) CPS presenter. I hadn't heard much about him until he spoke at a conference here a couple of years ago and his info was fascinating! I have been on the lookout for SN class so I'm jealous of that, too, lol ;)

Thanks for the info!
 

Pixels

New member
They tested for neck loads in frontal collisions with each method and the Australian method had better numbers.

I've read that study. The sample size was much too small to have any statistical significance. In addition, that study "found" that Australian tethering was better than not tethering at all in rear impact collisions. How could there be any difference, you ask? Well, it goes back to sample size.

Two tests does not a reliable sample make.
 

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