Feeling kind of sad about my CPS course...Vent.

** It's been 2 full days of class, and still no seats have been installed in a car at all--and it looks like the earliest that might happen would be tomorrow (Thursday) afternoon. We are working a seat check event on Friday, so I'm just kind of concerned about all the people in the class who've never installed a seat at all--and there are quite a few of those. It seems like there should be more practice time than that!!

** They haven't hardly mentioned much about ERF or EH at all. When they have talked about higher weight harness systems, they make it sound like they are only for obese children younger than four. They say that the highest harness weight limits for kids (other than special needs) only go up to 65 lbs--and they had a Radian 80 IN THE ROOM!!!!

** They said that the smaller child should always go in the middle--no doubt. When I asked how they felt about having the RFing (more protected) child outboard, and the FF child in the middle, they acted like I'd lost my mind, and they'd never even heard that suggested before.

** They did say to use a RFing tether IF it's recommended by the carseat manufacturer, but only if the vehicle manual designates a RF tether location (yeah...right). But they said that it isn't tested that way in this country, and might not be safe. They said that it doesn't actually help prevent rebound, but that it does limit rotation of the top shell of the seat--and that's a bad thing because you WANT your seat to rotate away from the point of impact to help move your child away, and to help absorce the impact by increasing the ride-down time.

** When I asked about bracing, they said that you can't do it unless the vehicle manual says that you can--and that topic is not addressed at all in my 2006 vehicle manual.

** They say that we have to teach parents to apply weight to the CR with their hand. They said using your knee makes it look more difficult, and we don't want to make parents feel like it will be hard for them. I asked if they were avoiding the knee method for fear of damage to the CR, and they said no. I mentioned that it's much easier for ME to use my knee because it gives me so much more leverage--and I can use both hands to pull the seat belt tight, and feed it back into the retractor. So they conceded that if it's a woman who weighs less than 100 lbs, that it might be easier for her (I'm well over 100 lbs by the way).

** I'm the only one there who isn't part of an organization, and a couple of people have called me "mom"--which is kind of annoying and degrading. I kind of get the feeling that they think I'm silly, so I've been trying not to say too much anymore...

There's more, but those were just the things that were depressing me today. Mainly, I just hate how the class is making me feel--like I'm stupid for having my youngest RF, for having my 4 yr old still harnessed, etc.

Am I the only one with a "less than wonderful" course experience???

Bummer. And for the record, the last seat check I went to, the 250+ pound police officer put his knee into the seat when tightening it! It was the most secure seat I've ever had!

I had some of the same feelings during my course. I was the only one who wasn't there for work and kind of got the mom thing, but it didn't bother me. I introduced myself as a neurotic mom. They also dismissed any HWH seats as special needs. It seemed like any time someone even glanced at one they quickly dismissed it, "oh, that's a SN seat..."

It's strange that you haven't installed seats yet, though. How long is your class? We were in vehicles the afternoon of the first day, but in-class time was only 2.5 days with a check at the end of the third day.

Mom to a few said:

** They did say to use a RFing tether IF it's recommended by the carseat manufacturer, but only if the vehicle manual designates a RF tether location (yeah...right). But they said that it isn't tested that way in this country, and might not be safe. They said that it doesn't actually help prevent rebound, but that it does limit rotation of the top shell of the seat--and that's a bad thing because you WANT your seat to rotate away from the point of impact to help move your child away, and to help absorce the impact by increasing the ride-down time.

Click to expand...

Many hugs for you. I was lucky to have a great instructor, although there was another member from the board in my class and I'm sure I felt less alone because of that...

I'm confused about their rf'ing tether comment for a number of reasons though

- first, it has to be crash tested that way and meet standards with and without the tether in order for them to put it in the manual.
- rebound is the movement towards the back of the seat - there's the initial motion towards the point of impact - in a frontal collision it's towards the front of the vehicle, then the rebound is when the seat goes back towards the vehicle seat.
- the seat does it's main job in the initial impact - the movement towards the front of the vehicle which is where the force is spread out along the back of the child/child restraint and the shell rotates downwards. Whether a seat is tethered rf'ing and the rebound is prevented, or whether the seat rebounds towards the vehicle seat back, there is still going to be a point where the child and the car seat come to a sudden stop.

My primary concern really though is about referring to the initial movement of the seat at impact as rebound, when rebound is what happens after the impact and the seat moves back towards it's initial position

Not that that helps you much with your instructor situation... It's too bad that your instructor isn't taking the opportunity to offer best practice info when people are there specifically to be taught how to keep kids safe... I feel your pain... And I'd probably end up just keeping quiet in the end too.

Here's hoping that the next 2 days go better though and that your class finishes on a positive note. And if not, you can always come here to celebrate your certification and simultaneously vent about the class.

Thanks everyone...At least I know there's one place where people understand.

The class is 4 days total, but the seat check event starts at 1pm Friday, so I just don't see how the carseat installation "virgins" could possibly get enough experience to do a decent job by that point. All we've done in vehicles so far is to identify the various types of latches and retractors.

And they do know what rebounding is--although they generally described it by its more "snuggly" sounding name...They even demonstrated that with an infant seat in the class. And they did show the video of the infant seat in front of an airbag--complete with the head almost breaking off when it hit the seat, but explained that that was different because it occurs at such higher speeds. Apparently, when their head slams into the seat in the back, it's no big deal because much of the crash force has been absorbed by the front of the vehicle....Oh well.

Thanks for listening....Maybe today will magically be better .

I'm sorry your class isn't better; much of what they're saying is half right, but without the explanation that would tell you when it applies. (Like the bracing a RF seat: some cars don't allow it because of airbag sensors, so you'd check the manual for that.)

I'm sorry that just stinks. I think the scaled back curriculum means many CPS advocates are going to go in knowing most of what will be taught which is so sad. I have heard the concern is to not overwhelm the people who have never even touched a car seat but it stinks just the same.

As far as the exrfing, my instructor was telling me they are trying to be careful because many parents were thinking the techs were extremists and they were concerned this would cause parents to ignore anything we were saying. We all know it is safest, lets just hope pediatricians start to push it as well, wouldn't that makes our lives much easier better yet too bad AAP wouldn't just drop the whole 1 and 22# minimum. If parents came to us more aware of the benefits and without the 1 ffing we would be ahead of the game.

I hope it gets better, enjoy the check up event tomorrow!

Are you ME?? Reading your post was SOOOO wierd for me. I am in class too right now. Ends tomorrow with a seat check event. So much of what you said sounds just like what I'm experiencing!

I am the only one in my class who isn't w/ an organization too, some have commended me, others have questioned it numerous times "So you're here just because you want to be?"

They do have a Husky in the room and have also portrayed it to be just for special needs or obese kids.

One guy really trash talks Britax - said that the only reason they're so expensive is b/c they're imported from Spain! WTF!! Aren't they manufactured in the US?! One of the firefighters in the class keeps trashing Britax too - I kind of feel like he's doing it just to bug me b/c he saw that I have a RF MA in my back seat! I've just been ignoring him.

They did mention ERF more than a few times and really touched on what the law says vs. what the AAP and statistics show. But they have not touched on EH at ALL. I'm afraid to mention or ask about it.

We also had the RF tethering discussion. They explained Swedish vs. Austrailian methods, but said you probably won't ever see it (uhhh - go look in my back seat!). They had the part about how tethering FF is SO much safer than not tethering FF and taught about how it prevents head excursion. Makes sense. So in the discussion about RF tethering, I asked, "If tethering FF is so impt. with preventing head excursion and preventing DC from hitting the seat in front of them, why WOULDN'T you want to tether RF too?" I mean, I understand the differnce in that the forces of the initial frontal impact is far greater than the forces of "bouncing back" (or wahtever that's called)...but.... I never got an answer. It's so controversial at this point "cocooning" vs. not "cocooning".....it's such a new concept for the US.

It has been very interesting installing all the different kinds of seats today - none as easy as my MA!! And they are totally teaching not using the knee too. And that when you check for tightness you just grab at the beltpath with one hand and *gently* tug. I keep violating that b/c I'm so used to tugging so hard and wanting a seat to be rock solid.

Reading these kinds of threads make me glad I had the instructor I did, I never had any of those experiences (except for point #3).

Kalinky said:

Are you ME??

Click to expand...

Well, I'm pretty sure I'm not . I didn't get any firemen in my class--mostly mine are all cops. Thanks for all the encouragement from everyone! Today was actually much better. I actually got to talk to one of the instructors (who wasn't able to attend the other days), and she was going on and on to me about how great Britax is, about RF tethers, extended RF, EH, etc. She seems super nice too. We did lots of different types of installations today--and yeah, I used my knee, but they didn't say anything about it :thumbsup:.

Things got pretty heated today after we took our last written test. Apparently, there were a couple of questions that almost everyone in the class answered wrong (except for me, of course) because the question asked for the BEST option. I thought, "Gee, if you'd been teaching 'best practice' all along, then maybe they'd be getting it by now!!" Anyway, so all these cops start arguing with the instructors about how "1 yr and 20 lbs" is the LAW!!!!--as opposed to keeping a child RFing to the limit....and how a 5 yr old child who weighs 30 lbs should be in a BPB instead of a 5-pt harness with a top tether. Unfortunately, I don't think a few of those cops were fully convinced, and I'm sure they'll recommend the absolute bare minimum to parents in the future. However, the instructors (for once!) were vehemently discussing leaving children RFing until the RF limit of the seat, and leaving small children harnessed to 40 lbs--and I think it probably really helped most of the people in there to hear "best practice" actually being explained :thumbsup:!!

So there were a few bad moments today (like when they said a 39 lb, 2yr old should use a booster because their family probably couldn't afford a different seat anyway...and when they said that it was ok that I couldn't get the tether on one of the older seats to stay tight--I could make it loosen by barely pulling on it with one hand), but overall, today was a million times better than the previous days. Hopefully the seat check event tomorrow will go well, but either way, at least I'll know for sure that there will be at least one more good tech in my area--ME!!

Mom to a Few - How did the seat check event go for you guys today? Ours was good. My first one was a sweet little guy who was at the weight limit for his Snug Ride and switching to a Scenera. The Mom took him out and attempted to uninstall the base but she couldn't. Niether could I. We had to have some of the guys come and pry it out from inside the seat bight - the lower anchor strap/hooks were hooked around a spring below the vehicle seat! The car didn't have LATCH. Needless to say, it felt SO good to help educate that Mom and get that little guy safe!!! What a great "first official check"!

All in all, I must say the class was awesome. I learned so much and had really dedicated instructors.

Mom to a few said:

Things got pretty heated today after we took our last written test. Apparently, there were a couple of questions that almost everyone in the class answered wrong (except for me, of course) because the question asked for the BEST option. I thought, "Gee, if you'd been teaching 'best practice' all along, then maybe they'd be getting it by now!!"

Click to expand...

I think the scenario you mentioned is going to be a reoccurring theme since the exact same thing happened when I took the course over a month ago. One of my instructors actually mentioned on a break during our seat check event that when they revamped the curriculum they completely eliminated all the stuff they used to teach about best practice. I agreed with the instructor that best practice seems just as important as spending an entire day learning about just seat belt systems.

And I was pleasantly surprised at the seat check event when a lot of the police officers and the lone fireman really did a great job at installing seats when many of them have never touched a seat prior to taking the class.

Kalinky said:

Mom to a Few - How did the seat check event go for you guys today?

Click to expand...

I'm glad your seat check went so well!! Our's was REALLY slow. I think they scheduled it at a stupid time (1-3pm). I mentioned that all the school age kids would be in school...and all the pre-school age kids would be taking naps. So we worked in teams of two, and me and my partner only got to help one person. She was pregnant, and needed help getting her snugride installed tightly at the correct recline angle (it had to have pool noodles). She was super sweet, but I was really dissapointed that I didn't get to work with a parent and child (who was OUTSIDE the womb). I'm hoping I can work another event soon to get some more experience!

The class really ended pretty well though. The last two days were definitely better than the first two. Overall, I'm really glad that I did it, and I'm just looking forward to putting my new "official" status to good use. I've been driving friends and family crazy for years...They'll probably be happy to have me distracted by helping strangers for a while !

i guess on the plus side, now that you're going to be a tech, YOU can stress those things that you felt should have been stressed in the course when you're doing seat checks.

Feeling better about my CPS course

southpawboston said:

i guess on the plus side, now that you're going to be a tech, YOU can stress those things that you felt should have been stressed in the course when you're doing seat checks.

Click to expand...

Exactly :thumbsup: !!

NatenMaddiesMommy said:

I think the scenario you mentioned is going to be a reoccurring theme since the exact same thing happened when I took the course over a month ago. One of my instructors actually mentioned on a break during our seat check event that when they revamped the curriculum they completely eliminated all the stuff they used to teach about best practice. I agreed with the instructor that best practice seems just as important as spending an entire day learning about just seat belt systems.

Click to expand...

Seriously, that about drove me crazy. I think that could've taken 30 minutes. The sad part is that there were some people in our class who STILL didn't get it, and ended up not passing the class . I think they could use a lot of the time differently (better) than they did.

I feel you! I just took the first 2 days of my course and have the last 2 days next week. I'm the only one who isn't there for work therefore the only one who I think truely wants to be there. I talk too much, none of them like me.

I talk too much, none of them like me.

Click to expand...

LOL! This is what I worry will happen when I take a class.

LimePink said:

I feel you! I just took the first 2 days of my course and have the last 2 days next week. I'm the only one who isn't there for work therefore the only one who I think truely wants to be there. I talk too much, none of them like me.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I talked too much too--and I definitely felt less respect from them. They kept saying things like, "Well, but for the rest of us who live in the real world...". I pointed out that there ARE cheaper seats that can RF to 35 lbs, and that many of the people who supposedly "cant" afford a higher weight harnessed seat have iPods, fancy add-ons to their cars, expensive cell phones, etc. It's more often a matter of priorities than ablility. I know some people honestly can't afford things, but there are several ways to get seats that are either free, or dramatically discounted, in our area. And when they talked about how a 39 lbs 2 yr old should be in a combination seat (FF + BPB) so that they could go into the booster mode when they gained another pound, I about choked. Of course, my almost 3 yr old is still RFing, so I'm a little against boosters for that age . Yeah, if they have a reunion party, I might not get an invitation .

Yeah, in my class I got the "who goes where in the car" test wrong at first. I put the 4year old in the front seat between mom and dad because, in my head, s/he would still be in a harnessed seat! My instructor said, "You'd put a 4yo using a booster in the front w/a lap belt?" I was taken back at first... it really never occured to me that the 4yo would be in a booster!

I guess I've been hanging around here too long, eh?