20 Hr Flight - which carseat? RF/FF?

sarzahop · Oct 12, 2013

We are taking my toddler to South Africa over Christmas. He will be 18 months old and it will be about a 20 hour flight-- one stop but we don't exit the plane.

I have tried to do a lot of research but I still have some lingering questions that I'm hoping you could help me with:

1. I have narrowed the carseats down to the Cosco Scenera or the Radian. Which one is better for the plane use? We will be riding in an Audi A4 while in SA. (I don't mind the expense of the Radian because my baby doesn't seem to enjoy his carseats and we're looking for a new one anyway... ) If you know of a better one let me know. I am most concerned about my son's comfort while flying-- he is a tummy sleeper so I am worried about how well he will sleep on the plane.

2. Should he rear face or forward face? What are the advantages or disadvantages?

3. I've seen many of you talk about little ones feeling the belts on their backs while they sit--- can you explain that to me? What are the logistics of securing a carseat in a plane versus a car (I'm trying to figure out how a belt gets behind their backs?)

I am open to any other advice or suggestions! We were given a GoGo Babyz by a friend for use in the airport.

finn · Oct 13, 2013

For a 20 hour flight, with an 18 month old, I would ff the car seat unless you or your husband are going to be sitting in the seat in front of it.

I would take the Scenera, we have travelled with the Radian and it is heavy to have to lug around the airport with a toddler in tow but we check our buggy in and let our toddler run off as much energy as they can before we get on the plane which means we are chasing a toddler with our carry on luggage lol

redsox_baby · Oct 13, 2013

A few thoughts, not in order of importance...

1. I don't think there is any advantage to RF'ing an 18-month old on a plane, and it's also not that fair to the person in front of you on such a long flight when it's not necessary. (If it were an infant, I'd obviously feel differently about FF/RF, but for a child in mid-toddlerhood, FF in the plane is fine.) So unless your husband wants to lose his seat recline and sit in front of your RF carseat, I'd not do it.

2. Assuming that you're traveling economy class, I can't imagine any way that a Radian is going to fit RF. Many other far more compact seats hardly fit as it is.

3. I've traveled with Radians and used them FF, and yes, the seatbelt is felt right smack in the middle of the back. A seatbelt extender will do nothing to help because of the way the Radian seatbelt path works (when FF). The seatbelt runs between the seat cover and the seat frame, with no padding or other seat structure in between. The length of the male end of the seatbelt (i.e., the non-adjustable side) dictates where the seatbelt buckle will fall, so this can't be resolved by using an extender or anything like that, either. That being said, my kids did fine on a 12-hour flight with just an airline blanket behind their backs to pad the buckle, but it's still a big minus to traveling with that seat.

4. I don't know what airline you'd be taking, but if it's a foreign carrier, they may disallow you from RFing the seat anyway, so the whole issue may be determined for you.

Hazelandlucy · Oct 13, 2013

I would rear face if you can just for the extra recline so your son sleeps better. Get a radian or other 17 inch seat and a bulkhead row if possible (so you don't block anyone's recline and you also have a little play space in front of you) and rear face it. That's how I travel to the UK. Plus, I know plane dynamics are different, but seeing the amount of neck and spinal injuries caused by the San Francisco crash landing makes me think rear facing is safer in takeoff/landing.

I use a Coccoro to fly and can rear face it on any seat, but your son may be too big by now especially if you are looking for an overall replacement.

cantabdad · Oct 14, 2013

Do you know whether your Audi in SA has locking seatbelts and/or LATCH (Isofix)? If it has neither, as seems to be common in Europe, I might instead consider a carseat with built-in lock-offs, such as a Britax Marathon.

Otherwise, of the two seats you mentioned, I would say that the edge goes to the Scenera for portability, but otherwise the Radian is great for FF on the aircraft -- narrow enough to give you more "elbow room" in the adjacent seat and low profile so that your child can use the tray table. It is heavy but a wheeled cart does wonders. I've also worn the Radian as a backpack using 2 of Diono's padded shoulder straps. My daughter didn't notice the buckle behind her back, but we had a 2 hr flight, not 20. I think a rolled burp cloth might help.

If you're using a non-US carrier for any portion of the trip (or codeshare operated by another airline) then I would check and double-check their policies and bring a copy to the airport with you in case there is any misunderstanding.

sarzahop · Oct 19, 2013

Thanks for the replies!

I think we will FF for the convenience with the TV and tray.

Is the buckle in the back issue a strictly Radian issue? Or is that with all FF convertibles? My son is still RF so I'm not sure oh the FF works in cars/planes

We are not worried about the weight of the Radian as we have the cart. I really just want my son to be as comfortable as possible.

If we get a bulkhead (we have to request at check in), is rear-facing more comfortable? I was told the Radian can recline with the airline seat?

We are flying SAA. Their website says "no chest clip" but I have been in contact with their North American office who says FAA approved seats are fine. I have the email printed out just in case!

sarzahop · Oct 19, 2013

Is there an alternate car seat which might work better? We have an Evenflo Triumph but my son doesn't seem to like it that much...

monica-m · Oct 19, 2013

If you do decide to go with the Radian and you decide to forward face it, make sure you take a neck pillow to put on backward to prevent head slump. The one time we didn't do this, DS only took a short nap and woke up crying because his neck hurt. It was really nice to be able to use the tray, so the Radian will remain his travel seat until he no longer needs a harness on the plane.

T4K · Oct 19, 2013

monica-m said:
If you do decide to go with the Radian and you decide to forward face it, make sure you take a neck pillow to put on backward to prevent head slump. The one time we didn't do this, DS only took a short nap and woke up crying because his neck hurt. It was really nice to be able to use the tray, so the Radian will remain his travel seat until he no longer needs a harness on the plane.

I second the neck pillow or something to prevent the slump. Even with the recline bar down, the Radian was super upright.

redsox_baby · Oct 19, 2013

As for the buckle thing. I am not sure it's ONLY Radian, but among the seats I've got, Radian is the only out of those. It boils down to where the seatbelt path is. In a Brtiax (old ones, anyway, which is what I have), the seatbelt there goes through the shell, with plastic on both sides of the belt. The radian onlt has seat shell on the underside of the belt path, and on top of it, it's just the seat cover, so any other seat that uses that style of belt path will probably have the issue. The seat height plays into it, as well, so a taller seat may not have the buckle problem, but you trade that for not being able to use the tray to eat, so you win some and lose some no matter what you choose.

Eclipsepearl · Oct 25, 2013

Just another item to consider- I actually flew this route years ago, pre-babies. It was on SAA. I don't think you're flying a U.S. company.

Double check that your car seat will be allowed on whatever company you're flying with. If it's a U.S. or Canadian company, you're fine but some foreign airlines have strange rules.

For the record, I've turned seats around for really long flights. I didn't want to bother anyone in front of us. We fly between California and Europe so it's been worth it.

keri1292 · Oct 25, 2013

I wouldn't use the Radian FFing on a 20 hour flight. We just flew to CA and I let Mitchell forward face on the short flights (about 1½ hours to the next airport). He loved that he was low enough for the lap tray, but the angle didn't work for sleeping. He fell asleep 15 min into the first flight and I had to hold his head up for an hour. Not fun. I was surprised that he didn't fuss about the buckle on his back at all.

The buckle is in between the kid and the car seat because the belt path is open and the buckle falls in the middle of your lap instead of the side like a vehicle lap shoulder belt. Picture an airplane buckle here... link

We have also flown with Britax seats and the FFing recline allowed for sleeping.

sarzahop · Oct 27, 2013

Thanks for the info! What Britax model do you recommend? Are you saying the. Fits would be the most comfortable FF? I want to be prepared in case we can't get a bulkhead seat.

After trying out the Radian at a store I don't think it's right for us. I really want my sweet baby to be comfortable.

sarzahop · Oct 27, 2013

I'm starting to consider the Combi Cocorro, since we will be flying a few times in the next year (and my little one is small so I think the size limits won't be a problem). Do you guys have specific feedback on that one?

I contacted the airline (South African) and have had verbal/written confirmation that I can use an FAA approved seat.

cantabdad · Oct 28, 2013

sarzahop said:
I contacted the airline (South African) and have had verbal/written confirmation that I can use an FAA approved seat.

Did they say whether a rear-facing seat would be OK? SAA's website says that they permit forward-facing carseats *only* (and that is not uncommon among airlines like British Airways and others like Aer Lingus that tend to align themselves with UK aviation regulations).

The Coccoro is a great little carseat that friends of ours have been using for a 3-across setup. It is often described as a good seat for travel since it is lightweight and narrow, but I don't have any direct experience. There were some previous discussions on this site where it was described as excellent for air travel, including one that specifically referenced using it FF on SAA:

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=237867

Note that at least one family had an issue with the belt being stuck in the FF beltpath, an issue that can generally be avoided by either flipping the buckle a half-twist (so that it has leeway to open) or using a seatbelt extender.

abigaylebelle · Oct 29, 2013

This is funny-I've done this flight with an 18 month old. I used an infant only carseat and it was light and easy to carry (I hooked the handle over my rolling suitcase and the baby walked/rode in ergo carrier). However once on the plane it would have been nice to be able to ff during the flight so baby could watch movies on the little screens. You will definitely have time to switch the seat from rf for take off/landing to ff while cruising along.

As to which seat I would definitely take the scenera. The radian is heavy and tall, so you won't be able to rf on the plane (maybe baby won't be able to sleep so upright ff, etc). Plus you will want to rf at your destination and the radian might be too tall in the car over there. Make sure you bring a locking clip and know how to use it just in case you don't have locking belts. Although even 5 years ago in Kenya we had locking belts in a toyota so that might not be a concern. Also if the scenera is damaged during your journey for some reason you won't be out much $.

Have fun in South Africa!

meljc · Nov 4, 2013

We just did LAX to Italy with our 2yo FF (on the plane) in a Coccoro and it was great! We have a Scenara and it would not have been comfortable. Because of the Coccoro's curved base you have a lot of leeway as to the installation angle. Once we started cruising and it was time for DS to sleep, I reclined his chair, loosened the seatbelt, tilted the Coccoro to a more reclined position and re-tightened the seatbelt. It worked like a charm! He had a great little "next" for sleeping. When he was awake we put it upright again very easily. I will say that the seat's overall height prevents use of the tray table when a child is sitting in the seat, but that was not a deal breaker for us. To transport it through the airport, we turned the seat backwards and upside down and ran a small bungee cord through the FF belt path and attached it to the frame of our City Mini, while DS rode in the Ergo. It was even easier than taking the infant seat on an earlier trip and DS was happier.

FYI I got the coccoro from Blinq's ebay store for $133. Good luck!

Eclipsepearl · Nov 9, 2013

Exactly! I flew with the Radian many times and my girl was fine in it ffing. I did the same trick. I cranked the seat back, loosened the seat belt and slid it forward so it had a good recline. Worked like a charm!

Don't not buy a Radian because of this!!!!

Remember it is NOT necessary that the child be sat bolt upright for the entire flight strapped in. This is neither reasonable nor necessary. Just for take-off and landing does this need to happen. Everyone should stay strapped in when in the seats in case of turbulence. That would most likely an up & down movement (although it can vary) so you don't want the little one to fly up. If you hit really rough air, I mean, when they stop the service, etc. just tighten the seat back up, but you just need the strap around everyone.

springbok · Nov 13, 2013

We did the trip from Ottawa to Cape Town in January with our then 15mth old. We flew Air Canada, Delta and KLM (yup...3 flights each way). We have the Radian R120 and used it ff-ing on all of the flights. We did the recline trick too and she slept fine with no head slump (although she definitely wasn't that keen on sleeping - too much to see and do!). She also never complained or fussed about the buckle.

The Radian was great because it is so narrow. It fit on the seat with the armrests down and that was important since our airlines said the armrest couldn't be raised - during take off and landing - to accommodate a car seat, and some seats are too wide. It also meant neither of us were squished up against the car seat.

We used the Radian rf-ing in the car and were glad to have it for driving around SA. Our rental was a Hyundai Elantra and we also used it in a giant van of some make I forget.

We bought the Radian in anticipation of the trip and to transition from our infant seat. We're still using it rf and are happy with it. Only con for the trip was that it is heavy as heck. But my husband carried it on his back so I can't really complain. ;-)

Have a fab trip! Drink lots of grapetiser and Savannahs!

20 Hr Flight - which carseat? RF/FF?

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