ignora
Senior Community Member
Friday, I attended a training with Sarah Tilton from Britax. Melinda (mommyto4) and Jen (jenmann21) were there, as well as a few other people from over on the Delphi board. It was really fun... and informative.
Anyway, I thought I'd post with what she talked about. Some if it may be old news to a lot of you, but I'm going to post it anyway just in case it helps someone. If you read on Delphi, you may have seen some of this info already.
I know at least one of you here (Janice, I think) was at the training in Sacramento on the 19th. So, if you or anybody else has anything to add or correct... please feel free to jump in. I'm all ears.
So, here we go... it's going to be long!
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Britax products are manufactured in 5 different facilities worldwide. Each one is a full-blown design and testing facility, though outside testing agencies are sometimes used for verification purposes. She said that the Monarch is manufactured in Germany, but all other US seats are manufactured in North Carolina. Britax strollers are manufactured in China.
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Britax tests each seat in every mode it could used in, so RF/FF lap belt, RF/FF lap/shoulder belt, RF/FF LATCH, etc. They use a test dummy that is a larger size than the upper weight of the seat it's being tested in. They do side impact testing (at their facility in North Carolina) and more severe crash testing than required by FMVSS 213. They also do as much "in vehicle" crash testing as they can (as opposed to on the normal crash testing bench). Misuse testing is also done... she mentioned that a "heavy winter clothing/loose harness" test as one of them.
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The Diplomat is the first product being introduced with a 35 lb RF weight limit. Britax does plan on increasing the RF weight limit on all of their convertibles to 35 lbs. She didn't have a timeline on this because every time they make a significant change on a seat, they have to go through recertification testing again for that seat. It's not a simple matter of slapping on a new sticker. And for the same reason, the limit change is NOT retroactive. I believe she said they hope to have all convertible seats certified to 35 lbs RF by the end of 2008.
Right now, all convertibles can be reclined in FF mode up to 33 lbs, then must be installed upright. When the RF weight limit is increased to 35 lbs, seats will be able to recline FF up to 35 lbs.
Also, she didn't say much about the Advocate except to say that she didn't have a sample there because they're still in production. She kind of rolled her eyes a bit while talking about it because she forsees Britax replacing a lot of seats for dumb things like one of the little lights going out. She didn't mention the RF limit on it, but my opinion is that it will also be released with a 35 lb RF limit since that's their goal for all of their convertibles.
As far as why Britax doesn't go further than this and try to match the RF weight limit on Swedish seats, the reasons are these:
Swedish seats have something called a foot prop that goes from the back of the seat down to the floor for increased support. She also said their car seats are designed so that they can be installed further back on the car's seat to make more room for kids' legs.
This kind of thing requires redesigning the current seats and would increase the price of the seat. They don't see this as a financial reality because their market research finds that most end users already don't use their current convertibles up to the RF limit. The market demand, aside from techs and advocates, just isn't there right now. However, that doesn't mean we won't see higher RF limit seats in the future if demand for them increases.
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HUGS: Harness Ultra-Guard System
The HUGS help reduce head excursion on their 65 and 80 lb products. The nylon of the straps can slip against children's clothes in a crash, but the rubber of the HUGS is intended to grip the child's clothes during a crash and provide resistance to forward movement.
HUGS are optional RF (mandatory FF). Britax strongly discourages parents from removing the HUGS because of the likelihood that they will get lost or forgotten about when it comes time for the child to face forward. She did say in some cases, though, that they are hard to use RF because of their size which causes digging into the child's chin or prevents harness tightness.
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Britax has a new FF lock-off design that is standard across all convertibles now being manufactured. It's smaller, more ergonomic and supposed to be easier for one-handed operation.
They have not changed the design of the RF lock-offs but have rotated them so that the hinge is to the back of the retraint. They had a lot of complaints of seatbelts bunching and people not being able to close the lock-off. She even said she's had that same problem with seats she's checked.
She said the lock-offs can be rotated on seats currently in use, but that you can't just take the one on your seat and reverse it because the screws in them are designed as a one-time use item. People with seats still under warranty can call up and get the new lock-offs for free. For older seats, parents can call and buy the new lock-offs.
She also said they are trying to ship out all parts that are under warranty by Next Day Air so that people can receive their warranty materials quicker. Items that are paid for by the consumer are sent Ground and, therefore, take longer... though, the option to upgrade to faster shipping is available for additional cost upon request.
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Sarah said you don't need to use both lock-offs. Britax strongly recommends using the lock-off furthest from the seatbelt buckle as long as both the lap and shoulder belt are both through the lock-off. She said it tends to work better than the lock-off closest to the buckle because latchplate placement tends to be too close to the lock-off and it can interfere or cause breakage of the lock-off. She didn't say you couldn't use the lock-off closest to the buckle... just that it was harder to use, and we'd be better off using the other one.
She said they are beginning to add to the manual that people can choose to bypass the lock-offs if the seatbelt locks.
Sarah and Stephanie (from SafetyBeltSafe) got into a bit of a discussion about whether people should lock the seatbelt when using the lock-off. Sarah recommended doing so because the lock-off is a pre-crash positioner (and it also keeps the seat belt out of the way of children). Stephanie wasn't so sure. Sarah said if you do lock the retractor you should put the lap/shoulder belt through the lock-off, close it, and THEN retract the shoulder belt.
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Britax has found a direct correlation between parents really tugging on the RF tether to achieve recline and the same parents having trouble later being able to lock the seat in upright mode. They recommend pulling the slack out of the tether but not more than is necessary so that the recline mechanism doesn't get broken or stuck... do not use excessive force to achieve the appropriate recline.
She said that Britax has always said in their manuals that it's ok to achieve recline by using a rolled-up towel. They are in the process of modifying their manuals to include the use of pool noodles.
Do not install the RF tether using the tether anchor that is connected to or under the vehicle seat on which the restraint sits. Doing this changes the direction of forces to both the tether and the car seat. She also stated that the RF tether must be out at an angle from the back of the car seat (as you're looking at it from the side). It's NOT ok to tether to something straight down from the back of the restraint... the tether must be out at an angle (like this /\, not this /|).
You can use a FF anchor point for the seat in front of the car seat... for example if it was installed in the third row of a minivan, you could use the FF tether anchor for the second row seat. This is provided that the anchor point for seat in front of the restraint is not moveable (like, actually being ON the back of a second row moveable seat). She also said to be aware of airbag sensors in the front seats when you're RF tethering.
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The infant insert in the Boulevard and the Diplomat can be folded back on itself on the sides (where the crease is) to act sort of like a receiving blanket to fill in some of the space on the sides for smaller babies. It can be removed when the child fits well in the seat without it. She said they do not specify when that insert has to come out.... so it's up to the parent because it's been crash-tested with or w/o it. It doesn't necessarily have to come out just because the child can sit up on their own.
It's ok to use the infant pillow on the Decathalon even if the side pillows aren't being used.
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Sarah reiterated the importance of switching the LATCH connectors when going from RF to FF mode.
Apparently it's not a Britax mandate. It comes down from the third-party supplier of the LATCH connectors.
She also made sure to point out that when installing FF with LATCH on the RA and DC, the LATCH belt needs to go through the FF belt path. You don't do that for the MA, so some people might not remember to do that for seats that lack the LATCH bar.
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The Australian vs. Swedish tethering thing:
Sarah said what happened is this. As we know, Britax continues to put its products through Due Diligence testing. In one of their tests, something questionable came up in the Australian tethering test. At the same time, the manuals for a couple of seats came up for renewal. They couldn't get the Aus tethering tests redone quick enough, so they had to approve the manuals w/o the Aus tethering info. After the manuals came out, they were able to finish the testing, decided everything was fine after all, and put it back in subsequent versions of manuals. It wasn't as big of a hoopla as we'd all suspected. It was bad timing.
Britax doesn't recommend one over the other because they each protect against something different. And she wouldn't comment on whether one is better for younger kids and one better for older kids. The Swedish method is very effective in achieving initial position, reducing seat rotation by pre-compressing the seat cushions, and rebound control. The Australian method is very effective in limiting seat rotation and rebound control, but may not assist in achieving initial postition. Both methods improve the stabilization of the installation.
Someone asked if bracing helps reduce rotation as well as the Australian method. Sarah's response was that bracing should never be used to secure the restraint. It's only ok for the restraint to touch the seat in front of it, but it shouldn't be jammed into the back of the car's seat in any way.
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Product Updates:
The Rip-Stitch Tether is part of the Energy Absorbing Management System and absorbs energy, phases impact forces, lowers head and chest accelerations and adds milliseconds to the ride-down in a crash. There is red stitching that tears when a load has been applied to the tether (this might not happen in a side-impact crash). The Rip-Stitch Tether was phased in and is now available on the Marathon, Boulevard, Decathalon, and Diplomat.
The new Energy Absorbing Base has a rod on the underside of it that deforms in a crash. This reduces vertical forces on the child. It's now standard equipment on the MA, RA, DC, and BLVD... I'm not sure about the Diplomat. My notes don't say and I can't remember if she mentioned it or not.
The Lower EPS pads (under the cover on the 'sitting' portion of the seat) are required to be there, but tend to be thrown away as packaging. They will now have "DO NOT DISCARD" embossed on them in three languages (English, French, and Spanish). They're on all convertibles now in production.
Manuals are being updated to better indicate RF and FF weight ranges and height ranges. The manual for the BLVD was updated this past May.
They are introducing new packaging. There will be a visual aid chart on the box that states what the child's weight, standing height, AND sitting height needs to be to fit in the seat. There will also be new hang tags on the seats with that same chart.
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A manual update for the Companion should be out in the next 30-60 days. It will indicate that the handle should be down when in the vehicle. It will also clarify the crotch buckle positions: the buckle position closest to the baby should be used from 4-10 lbs. The outermost buckle position should be used from 11-22 lbs. Stickers will be affixed to the seat shell with the clarifications.
She also told us that there is a low-birthweight foam insert for the Companion. It fills the area between the shell and child, creating a snug fit for smaller children. This foam can only be used with the Companion but doesn't come with it because it rarely needs to be used and wouldn't be cost effective. However, it is available free of charge from Britax upon request.
The head bolster on the Companion is part of the TSIP. The seat is NOT tested w/o it, so it MUST be used.
There are 3 different bases for the 3 models of Companion that have been released.
- E9L14 (gray) was the first model and the seperate base is part number S811000.
- E9L20 (gray) was the second model and the seperate base is part number S811700 (also gray).
- E9L80 (black) was the third model and the seperate base is part number S818500 (also black).
The "E" numbered bases come with the seat itself and are the same as the seat model. The "S" numbers are the accessory bases sold seperately. E9L14 will only fit on S811000. Both the E9L20 and E9L80 will fit on either S811000 OR S818500. The E9L14 model is not compatible with the current strollers.
They are working on a new infant carrier with a higher weight limit, but there's no ETA on it.
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The Diplomat has the same dimensions as the Roundabout and the same push-button harness adjuster. She said it's similar to the old Advantage, but with better side impact protection in the head area.
The harness height adjusts from 10.75" to 15.00". There's one crotch buckle postion at 6.75" from the back of the seat.
She had one in Taylor there, and it's really nice in person... looks a lot better than it does in the pictures online. The cover is SO soft... I want to have one made for the driver's seat in my car.
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FF seatbelts and LATCH bar on the MA:
For lap-only belts, the belt should be routed under the LATCH bar on both sides. For lap/shoulder belts, it must be routed over the LATCH bar on both sides to allow the shoulder belt to pass through the FF lock-off. The seat is not crash-tested with the lap-only belt over the LATCH bar, so it's not recommended... even if the latch plate on the seat belt is too large to pass between the shell and the LATCH bar.
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For those parents whose children can get the harness loose on those seats that have A-lock adjusters (MA, BLVD, Wizard), Britax will send something called a Training Tool. It's a plastic guard thing that goes over the harness adjuster and makes it difficult for kids (and parents, unfortunately) to adjust the harness. This is provided for free upon request.
Sarah did say she was awfully surprised when she started hearing parents make this complaint and couldn't see how it was possible for kids to do this if the harness was tight enough. She feels like it's a discipline issue, but Britax came up with this thing basically to placate parents.
That said, the cover designer wanted to simplify the look of the front of those same seats, so they ended up removing the velcro flap and introducing covers with that area sewn closed. There's now a small slit for the parent to slip in a finger or two to adjust the harness (called a button hole adjuster cover). Britax is finding that this kind of cover is actually reducing a child's ability to loosen the harness. All covers that have A-lock adjusters are being or have been redesigned. This wasn't the purpose of the redesign, but it's a benefit to parents with those determined children.
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The adjuster button and housing on the Decathalon can not be removed for cleaning like it can on the Roundabout. The housing design looks the same on the outside, but is different on the inside.
About the recall: Sarah said it's safe to continue using the DC while waiting for the recall kit... that the harness housing only pops out when tightening the harness, NOT while travelling. She also said that effective 8/1/07, all adjusters are riveted in production. The rivets done in production are a silver metal... as opposed to the ones that are the recall fix, which are black.
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Sarah really stuck by the company line on any of the Regent discussion.
Here's the reason for the advisory. Earlier this year they could not keep up with the demand of the Regent, so they actually had to make a new mold. When they do that, they have to recertify the seat. In that process, they discovered the new, better installation methods. It was never a question that the existing ways didn't pass FMVSS 213. It was that their testing showed this new way was better. So that's how the new mold was certified. The new mold is not certified to the old instructions. So that is why they can't technically allow people to use seats made after 6/19 with the old instructions.
Because none of this was part of an official recall, they did not have to go back to recertify the older Regent mold or the Husky mold (especially since it's not being made anymore). So that's why they did not recommend that the Husky be installed with the new instructions.
She said parents need to follow the manual that came with their seat, except that parents with seats made prior to June 19, 2007 have the choice to install using their original instructions or the advisory instructions. But, she also said that if you add the new 'enhancements' to an advisory period seat, that you're required to follow the new instructions. If you want to continue using the original instructions for your seat, don't add the new 'enhancements'.
We asked about seats made after 6/19 that can't be installed according to the new instructions... like, if a parent can't get an acceptable install using LBP for an under 40 lb child, is it ok to use the SBP since that's ok for a heavier child. She said no, it would be considered an incompatibility between the restraint and the vehicle seat. We also said that it doesn't make sense to use SBP for a heavier child and LBP for a lighter child... that intuitively, it should be the other way. She said that she wasn't allowed to talk about test results, but that she would try to find out if there was a better explanation that she COULD give us so that we could understand the reasoning behind the whole thing.
Recline bar is now required with all installations regardless of child's weight or tether use. I asked why they're not installing the recline bar in production now since it's always required. Her answer was that it falls out. The tether is required with children above 50 lbs. Tether is required with lap/shoulder belt, short route, regardless of child's weight.
They test the Regent with LATCH up to the weight limit of the seat, but that you should still go by the weight limit stated in your vehicle instructions. I just thought it was an interesting tidbit of info.
I asked Sarah about routing the harness under the cover to install. She said it's fine as far as she knows. She's never been asked the question before and told me she'd confirm and get back to me (I gave her my email), but that she couldn't think of any reason it wouldn't be ok.
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She talked some about the Fisher-Price products. Basically, that they're technically discontinued, but that Britax is depleting their inventory... which, I think we knew. She said the reason they didn't do well was that people didn't associate the name Fisher-Price with car seats, so it was like trying to break-in a whole new manufacturer. People didn't tend to notice the "made by Britax" part on the box.
She showed photos of the FPSVD and the MA bases without the rest of the seat attached, and you could tell that they are somewhat different.
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Britax will be completely overhauling their website soon. One of the new features will be video clips for all products showing how to install for all belts/installation positions. There will also be videos on changing the cover, harness height, etc. However, these videos are not intended to replace the manual as the voice-overs are not verbatim to the manual. The videos will have an interactive introduction area with voice-over where you will choose RF or FF, LATCH or seatbelt, etc.... which will get you to the correct video.
There will also be a new page with access to all the state laws. Stephanie (from SafetyBeltSafe) suggested to her that they add some kind of something stating that the law isn't necessarily best practice, and she wrote it down... so we'll see if they actually do that.
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About seat replacement after a crash: Sarah said Britax used the NHTSA recs, but that it's ultimately a parental decision. If you're uncertain, replace the seat.
She also talked about their crash exchange program. It's listed under "customer support" on their website. The seat must have been occupied in the crash in order for it to be considered. Not all applications are accepted for seat replacement... the aps are sent to the design and engineering team and it's their decision. If a seat is accepted for replacement, the D & E team uses the info for research purposes to assure the seat is doing what it was designed to do.
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This is what one of her slides said about winter clothing:
- Adjust the harness to fit the clothes the child is wearing. The fit for a child in winter clothes will differ from a child in summer clothes.
- The fit should be checked and adjusted every time the child is secured in the restraint, regardless if there is a difference in clothing.
Not sure I can agree with all that, but there it is. She did also recommend taking a child's jacket off before putting them in the seat. And, like I said before, heavy clothing/loose harness is part of their misuse testing.
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Sarah said you may use a locking clip on Britax seats that do not have built-in lock-offs (Regent, Companion installed with no base). Locking clips are not recommended for use with any other restraint... use the built-in lock-off. For seats with nonworking lock-offs, she said she couldn't approve the use of a locking clip because the seats are NOT tested with a locking clip if they have built-in lock-offs. The parent either needs to either lock the seatbelt or make the tough choice to use a locking clip against Britax instructions.
No locking clips are provided w/any Britax product (even the ones w/o lock-offs). However, you can call Britax and they will provide one.
We found it ironic that we got like 4 or 5 locking clips in our Britax goodie bags.
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There are no weight limits on Britax boosters because FMVSS 213 doesn't require a weight capacity on boosters, just a height range. Booster seats do not restrain the child or take a load in the event of a crash, the vehicle seat belt system does. So, booster weights are 'guidelines' relative to the physical height of a child that might be using the booster. She said a 105 lb child is ok use to one of their boosters if they fit correctly.
She verified that the 6-year expiration does include boosters.
The cupholders are removeable on the Monarch, but not the Parkway. On the Parkway, the cupholder is sandwiched into place during assembly between two parts of the base.
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There was a question about what to do with the lock-offs when installing a seat like the Roundabout or Decathlon (no LATCH bar) with lower anchors.
She said the picture in the manual shows going over the closed lock-off, but she said in reality you'll have to do what gives you the most direct line to pull the LATCH connector tightly (which might mean going over the open lock-offs). Don't close the lock-offs on the LATCH strap, though.
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Misc. stuff:
- Sarah reiterated about hand washing covers. She said hand washing prolongs the flame retarding quality of the cover. She said washers aren't as gentle in terms of agitating and the flame retardant would probably wear off sooner.
- SIP foam can be taped and it will be safe as long as all pieces are there, but she recommends replacing broken foam because the likelihood of taped pieces coming off again is high.
- She didn't know anything about new boy covers but said she'd pass it on that we want better choices.
- She didn't know of any plans in the works for a baseless convertible. She said the developers already have ideas out to 2010 but that she isn't brought into the loop until further into the design process.
- She talked about compatibility between car seats and vehicle seats a little bit. There's apparently some agreement between the car and restraint manufacturers (she said what it's called, but I can't remember and didn't write it down... maybe somebody knows). Under this agreement, car makers have to provide seats that are within a certain size... width, length, and height. It's like an imaginary cube, and car seat manufactures have to make their restraints to fit w/in this cube. It's kind of like the thing you have to fit your carry-on in at the airport... same idea. Theoretically, it was supposed to solve all car seat installation problems, but hasn't really worked out as intended. Bummer, huh?
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Ok, I think that's about the longest post ever. I hope most of it makes sense... I'm tired! Ask any questions you may have and I'll do my best to answer. As long as this is, I know I didn't include everything...
Anyway, I thought I'd post with what she talked about. Some if it may be old news to a lot of you, but I'm going to post it anyway just in case it helps someone. If you read on Delphi, you may have seen some of this info already.
I know at least one of you here (Janice, I think) was at the training in Sacramento on the 19th. So, if you or anybody else has anything to add or correct... please feel free to jump in. I'm all ears.
So, here we go... it's going to be long!
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Britax products are manufactured in 5 different facilities worldwide. Each one is a full-blown design and testing facility, though outside testing agencies are sometimes used for verification purposes. She said that the Monarch is manufactured in Germany, but all other US seats are manufactured in North Carolina. Britax strollers are manufactured in China.
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Britax tests each seat in every mode it could used in, so RF/FF lap belt, RF/FF lap/shoulder belt, RF/FF LATCH, etc. They use a test dummy that is a larger size than the upper weight of the seat it's being tested in. They do side impact testing (at their facility in North Carolina) and more severe crash testing than required by FMVSS 213. They also do as much "in vehicle" crash testing as they can (as opposed to on the normal crash testing bench). Misuse testing is also done... she mentioned that a "heavy winter clothing/loose harness" test as one of them.
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The Diplomat is the first product being introduced with a 35 lb RF weight limit. Britax does plan on increasing the RF weight limit on all of their convertibles to 35 lbs. She didn't have a timeline on this because every time they make a significant change on a seat, they have to go through recertification testing again for that seat. It's not a simple matter of slapping on a new sticker. And for the same reason, the limit change is NOT retroactive. I believe she said they hope to have all convertible seats certified to 35 lbs RF by the end of 2008.
Right now, all convertibles can be reclined in FF mode up to 33 lbs, then must be installed upright. When the RF weight limit is increased to 35 lbs, seats will be able to recline FF up to 35 lbs.
Also, she didn't say much about the Advocate except to say that she didn't have a sample there because they're still in production. She kind of rolled her eyes a bit while talking about it because she forsees Britax replacing a lot of seats for dumb things like one of the little lights going out. She didn't mention the RF limit on it, but my opinion is that it will also be released with a 35 lb RF limit since that's their goal for all of their convertibles.
As far as why Britax doesn't go further than this and try to match the RF weight limit on Swedish seats, the reasons are these:
Swedish seats have something called a foot prop that goes from the back of the seat down to the floor for increased support. She also said their car seats are designed so that they can be installed further back on the car's seat to make more room for kids' legs.
This kind of thing requires redesigning the current seats and would increase the price of the seat. They don't see this as a financial reality because their market research finds that most end users already don't use their current convertibles up to the RF limit. The market demand, aside from techs and advocates, just isn't there right now. However, that doesn't mean we won't see higher RF limit seats in the future if demand for them increases.
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HUGS: Harness Ultra-Guard System
The HUGS help reduce head excursion on their 65 and 80 lb products. The nylon of the straps can slip against children's clothes in a crash, but the rubber of the HUGS is intended to grip the child's clothes during a crash and provide resistance to forward movement.
HUGS are optional RF (mandatory FF). Britax strongly discourages parents from removing the HUGS because of the likelihood that they will get lost or forgotten about when it comes time for the child to face forward. She did say in some cases, though, that they are hard to use RF because of their size which causes digging into the child's chin or prevents harness tightness.
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Britax has a new FF lock-off design that is standard across all convertibles now being manufactured. It's smaller, more ergonomic and supposed to be easier for one-handed operation.
They have not changed the design of the RF lock-offs but have rotated them so that the hinge is to the back of the retraint. They had a lot of complaints of seatbelts bunching and people not being able to close the lock-off. She even said she's had that same problem with seats she's checked.
She said the lock-offs can be rotated on seats currently in use, but that you can't just take the one on your seat and reverse it because the screws in them are designed as a one-time use item. People with seats still under warranty can call up and get the new lock-offs for free. For older seats, parents can call and buy the new lock-offs.
She also said they are trying to ship out all parts that are under warranty by Next Day Air so that people can receive their warranty materials quicker. Items that are paid for by the consumer are sent Ground and, therefore, take longer... though, the option to upgrade to faster shipping is available for additional cost upon request.
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Sarah said you don't need to use both lock-offs. Britax strongly recommends using the lock-off furthest from the seatbelt buckle as long as both the lap and shoulder belt are both through the lock-off. She said it tends to work better than the lock-off closest to the buckle because latchplate placement tends to be too close to the lock-off and it can interfere or cause breakage of the lock-off. She didn't say you couldn't use the lock-off closest to the buckle... just that it was harder to use, and we'd be better off using the other one.
She said they are beginning to add to the manual that people can choose to bypass the lock-offs if the seatbelt locks.
Sarah and Stephanie (from SafetyBeltSafe) got into a bit of a discussion about whether people should lock the seatbelt when using the lock-off. Sarah recommended doing so because the lock-off is a pre-crash positioner (and it also keeps the seat belt out of the way of children). Stephanie wasn't so sure. Sarah said if you do lock the retractor you should put the lap/shoulder belt through the lock-off, close it, and THEN retract the shoulder belt.
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Britax has found a direct correlation between parents really tugging on the RF tether to achieve recline and the same parents having trouble later being able to lock the seat in upright mode. They recommend pulling the slack out of the tether but not more than is necessary so that the recline mechanism doesn't get broken or stuck... do not use excessive force to achieve the appropriate recline.
She said that Britax has always said in their manuals that it's ok to achieve recline by using a rolled-up towel. They are in the process of modifying their manuals to include the use of pool noodles.
Do not install the RF tether using the tether anchor that is connected to or under the vehicle seat on which the restraint sits. Doing this changes the direction of forces to both the tether and the car seat. She also stated that the RF tether must be out at an angle from the back of the car seat (as you're looking at it from the side). It's NOT ok to tether to something straight down from the back of the restraint... the tether must be out at an angle (like this /\, not this /|).
You can use a FF anchor point for the seat in front of the car seat... for example if it was installed in the third row of a minivan, you could use the FF tether anchor for the second row seat. This is provided that the anchor point for seat in front of the restraint is not moveable (like, actually being ON the back of a second row moveable seat). She also said to be aware of airbag sensors in the front seats when you're RF tethering.
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The infant insert in the Boulevard and the Diplomat can be folded back on itself on the sides (where the crease is) to act sort of like a receiving blanket to fill in some of the space on the sides for smaller babies. It can be removed when the child fits well in the seat without it. She said they do not specify when that insert has to come out.... so it's up to the parent because it's been crash-tested with or w/o it. It doesn't necessarily have to come out just because the child can sit up on their own.
It's ok to use the infant pillow on the Decathalon even if the side pillows aren't being used.
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Sarah reiterated the importance of switching the LATCH connectors when going from RF to FF mode.
Apparently it's not a Britax mandate. It comes down from the third-party supplier of the LATCH connectors.
She also made sure to point out that when installing FF with LATCH on the RA and DC, the LATCH belt needs to go through the FF belt path. You don't do that for the MA, so some people might not remember to do that for seats that lack the LATCH bar.
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The Australian vs. Swedish tethering thing:
Sarah said what happened is this. As we know, Britax continues to put its products through Due Diligence testing. In one of their tests, something questionable came up in the Australian tethering test. At the same time, the manuals for a couple of seats came up for renewal. They couldn't get the Aus tethering tests redone quick enough, so they had to approve the manuals w/o the Aus tethering info. After the manuals came out, they were able to finish the testing, decided everything was fine after all, and put it back in subsequent versions of manuals. It wasn't as big of a hoopla as we'd all suspected. It was bad timing.
Britax doesn't recommend one over the other because they each protect against something different. And she wouldn't comment on whether one is better for younger kids and one better for older kids. The Swedish method is very effective in achieving initial position, reducing seat rotation by pre-compressing the seat cushions, and rebound control. The Australian method is very effective in limiting seat rotation and rebound control, but may not assist in achieving initial postition. Both methods improve the stabilization of the installation.
Someone asked if bracing helps reduce rotation as well as the Australian method. Sarah's response was that bracing should never be used to secure the restraint. It's only ok for the restraint to touch the seat in front of it, but it shouldn't be jammed into the back of the car's seat in any way.
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Product Updates:
The Rip-Stitch Tether is part of the Energy Absorbing Management System and absorbs energy, phases impact forces, lowers head and chest accelerations and adds milliseconds to the ride-down in a crash. There is red stitching that tears when a load has been applied to the tether (this might not happen in a side-impact crash). The Rip-Stitch Tether was phased in and is now available on the Marathon, Boulevard, Decathalon, and Diplomat.
The new Energy Absorbing Base has a rod on the underside of it that deforms in a crash. This reduces vertical forces on the child. It's now standard equipment on the MA, RA, DC, and BLVD... I'm not sure about the Diplomat. My notes don't say and I can't remember if she mentioned it or not.
The Lower EPS pads (under the cover on the 'sitting' portion of the seat) are required to be there, but tend to be thrown away as packaging. They will now have "DO NOT DISCARD" embossed on them in three languages (English, French, and Spanish). They're on all convertibles now in production.
Manuals are being updated to better indicate RF and FF weight ranges and height ranges. The manual for the BLVD was updated this past May.
They are introducing new packaging. There will be a visual aid chart on the box that states what the child's weight, standing height, AND sitting height needs to be to fit in the seat. There will also be new hang tags on the seats with that same chart.
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A manual update for the Companion should be out in the next 30-60 days. It will indicate that the handle should be down when in the vehicle. It will also clarify the crotch buckle positions: the buckle position closest to the baby should be used from 4-10 lbs. The outermost buckle position should be used from 11-22 lbs. Stickers will be affixed to the seat shell with the clarifications.
She also told us that there is a low-birthweight foam insert for the Companion. It fills the area between the shell and child, creating a snug fit for smaller children. This foam can only be used with the Companion but doesn't come with it because it rarely needs to be used and wouldn't be cost effective. However, it is available free of charge from Britax upon request.
The head bolster on the Companion is part of the TSIP. The seat is NOT tested w/o it, so it MUST be used.
There are 3 different bases for the 3 models of Companion that have been released.
- E9L14 (gray) was the first model and the seperate base is part number S811000.
- E9L20 (gray) was the second model and the seperate base is part number S811700 (also gray).
- E9L80 (black) was the third model and the seperate base is part number S818500 (also black).
The "E" numbered bases come with the seat itself and are the same as the seat model. The "S" numbers are the accessory bases sold seperately. E9L14 will only fit on S811000. Both the E9L20 and E9L80 will fit on either S811000 OR S818500. The E9L14 model is not compatible with the current strollers.
They are working on a new infant carrier with a higher weight limit, but there's no ETA on it.
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The Diplomat has the same dimensions as the Roundabout and the same push-button harness adjuster. She said it's similar to the old Advantage, but with better side impact protection in the head area.
The harness height adjusts from 10.75" to 15.00". There's one crotch buckle postion at 6.75" from the back of the seat.
She had one in Taylor there, and it's really nice in person... looks a lot better than it does in the pictures online. The cover is SO soft... I want to have one made for the driver's seat in my car.
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FF seatbelts and LATCH bar on the MA:
For lap-only belts, the belt should be routed under the LATCH bar on both sides. For lap/shoulder belts, it must be routed over the LATCH bar on both sides to allow the shoulder belt to pass through the FF lock-off. The seat is not crash-tested with the lap-only belt over the LATCH bar, so it's not recommended... even if the latch plate on the seat belt is too large to pass between the shell and the LATCH bar.
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For those parents whose children can get the harness loose on those seats that have A-lock adjusters (MA, BLVD, Wizard), Britax will send something called a Training Tool. It's a plastic guard thing that goes over the harness adjuster and makes it difficult for kids (and parents, unfortunately) to adjust the harness. This is provided for free upon request.
Sarah did say she was awfully surprised when she started hearing parents make this complaint and couldn't see how it was possible for kids to do this if the harness was tight enough. She feels like it's a discipline issue, but Britax came up with this thing basically to placate parents.
That said, the cover designer wanted to simplify the look of the front of those same seats, so they ended up removing the velcro flap and introducing covers with that area sewn closed. There's now a small slit for the parent to slip in a finger or two to adjust the harness (called a button hole adjuster cover). Britax is finding that this kind of cover is actually reducing a child's ability to loosen the harness. All covers that have A-lock adjusters are being or have been redesigned. This wasn't the purpose of the redesign, but it's a benefit to parents with those determined children.
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The adjuster button and housing on the Decathalon can not be removed for cleaning like it can on the Roundabout. The housing design looks the same on the outside, but is different on the inside.
About the recall: Sarah said it's safe to continue using the DC while waiting for the recall kit... that the harness housing only pops out when tightening the harness, NOT while travelling. She also said that effective 8/1/07, all adjusters are riveted in production. The rivets done in production are a silver metal... as opposed to the ones that are the recall fix, which are black.
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Sarah really stuck by the company line on any of the Regent discussion.
Here's the reason for the advisory. Earlier this year they could not keep up with the demand of the Regent, so they actually had to make a new mold. When they do that, they have to recertify the seat. In that process, they discovered the new, better installation methods. It was never a question that the existing ways didn't pass FMVSS 213. It was that their testing showed this new way was better. So that's how the new mold was certified. The new mold is not certified to the old instructions. So that is why they can't technically allow people to use seats made after 6/19 with the old instructions.
Because none of this was part of an official recall, they did not have to go back to recertify the older Regent mold or the Husky mold (especially since it's not being made anymore). So that's why they did not recommend that the Husky be installed with the new instructions.
She said parents need to follow the manual that came with their seat, except that parents with seats made prior to June 19, 2007 have the choice to install using their original instructions or the advisory instructions. But, she also said that if you add the new 'enhancements' to an advisory period seat, that you're required to follow the new instructions. If you want to continue using the original instructions for your seat, don't add the new 'enhancements'.
We asked about seats made after 6/19 that can't be installed according to the new instructions... like, if a parent can't get an acceptable install using LBP for an under 40 lb child, is it ok to use the SBP since that's ok for a heavier child. She said no, it would be considered an incompatibility between the restraint and the vehicle seat. We also said that it doesn't make sense to use SBP for a heavier child and LBP for a lighter child... that intuitively, it should be the other way. She said that she wasn't allowed to talk about test results, but that she would try to find out if there was a better explanation that she COULD give us so that we could understand the reasoning behind the whole thing.
Recline bar is now required with all installations regardless of child's weight or tether use. I asked why they're not installing the recline bar in production now since it's always required. Her answer was that it falls out
. The tether is required with children above 50 lbs. Tether is required with lap/shoulder belt, short route, regardless of child's weight.They test the Regent with LATCH up to the weight limit of the seat, but that you should still go by the weight limit stated in your vehicle instructions. I just thought it was an interesting tidbit of info.
I asked Sarah about routing the harness under the cover to install. She said it's fine as far as she knows. She's never been asked the question before and told me she'd confirm and get back to me (I gave her my email), but that she couldn't think of any reason it wouldn't be ok.
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She talked some about the Fisher-Price products. Basically, that they're technically discontinued, but that Britax is depleting their inventory... which, I think we knew. She said the reason they didn't do well was that people didn't associate the name Fisher-Price with car seats, so it was like trying to break-in a whole new manufacturer. People didn't tend to notice the "made by Britax" part on the box.
She showed photos of the FPSVD and the MA bases without the rest of the seat attached, and you could tell that they are somewhat different.
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Britax will be completely overhauling their website soon. One of the new features will be video clips for all products showing how to install for all belts/installation positions. There will also be videos on changing the cover, harness height, etc. However, these videos are not intended to replace the manual as the voice-overs are not verbatim to the manual. The videos will have an interactive introduction area with voice-over where you will choose RF or FF, LATCH or seatbelt, etc.... which will get you to the correct video.
There will also be a new page with access to all the state laws. Stephanie (from SafetyBeltSafe) suggested to her that they add some kind of something stating that the law isn't necessarily best practice, and she wrote it down... so we'll see if they actually do that.
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About seat replacement after a crash: Sarah said Britax used the NHTSA recs, but that it's ultimately a parental decision. If you're uncertain, replace the seat.
She also talked about their crash exchange program. It's listed under "customer support" on their website. The seat must have been occupied in the crash in order for it to be considered. Not all applications are accepted for seat replacement... the aps are sent to the design and engineering team and it's their decision. If a seat is accepted for replacement, the D & E team uses the info for research purposes to assure the seat is doing what it was designed to do.
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This is what one of her slides said about winter clothing:
- Adjust the harness to fit the clothes the child is wearing. The fit for a child in winter clothes will differ from a child in summer clothes.
- The fit should be checked and adjusted every time the child is secured in the restraint, regardless if there is a difference in clothing.
Not sure I can agree with all that, but there it is. She did also recommend taking a child's jacket off before putting them in the seat. And, like I said before, heavy clothing/loose harness is part of their misuse testing.
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Sarah said you may use a locking clip on Britax seats that do not have built-in lock-offs (Regent, Companion installed with no base). Locking clips are not recommended for use with any other restraint... use the built-in lock-off. For seats with nonworking lock-offs, she said she couldn't approve the use of a locking clip because the seats are NOT tested with a locking clip if they have built-in lock-offs. The parent either needs to either lock the seatbelt or make the tough choice to use a locking clip against Britax instructions.
No locking clips are provided w/any Britax product (even the ones w/o lock-offs). However, you can call Britax and they will provide one.
We found it ironic that we got like 4 or 5 locking clips in our Britax goodie bags.
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There are no weight limits on Britax boosters because FMVSS 213 doesn't require a weight capacity on boosters, just a height range. Booster seats do not restrain the child or take a load in the event of a crash, the vehicle seat belt system does. So, booster weights are 'guidelines' relative to the physical height of a child that might be using the booster. She said a 105 lb child is ok use to one of their boosters if they fit correctly.
She verified that the 6-year expiration does include boosters.
The cupholders are removeable on the Monarch, but not the Parkway. On the Parkway, the cupholder is sandwiched into place during assembly between two parts of the base.
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There was a question about what to do with the lock-offs when installing a seat like the Roundabout or Decathlon (no LATCH bar) with lower anchors.
She said the picture in the manual shows going over the closed lock-off, but she said in reality you'll have to do what gives you the most direct line to pull the LATCH connector tightly (which might mean going over the open lock-offs). Don't close the lock-offs on the LATCH strap, though.
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Misc. stuff:
- Sarah reiterated about hand washing covers. She said hand washing prolongs the flame retarding quality of the cover. She said washers aren't as gentle in terms of agitating and the flame retardant would probably wear off sooner.
- SIP foam can be taped and it will be safe as long as all pieces are there, but she recommends replacing broken foam because the likelihood of taped pieces coming off again is high.
- She didn't know anything about new boy covers but said she'd pass it on that we want better choices.
- She didn't know of any plans in the works for a baseless convertible. She said the developers already have ideas out to 2010 but that she isn't brought into the loop until further into the design process.
- She talked about compatibility between car seats and vehicle seats a little bit. There's apparently some agreement between the car and restraint manufacturers (she said what it's called, but I can't remember and didn't write it down... maybe somebody knows). Under this agreement, car makers have to provide seats that are within a certain size... width, length, and height. It's like an imaginary cube, and car seat manufactures have to make their restraints to fit w/in this cube. It's kind of like the thing you have to fit your carry-on in at the airport... same idea. Theoretically, it was supposed to solve all car seat installation problems, but hasn't really worked out as intended. Bummer, huh?
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Ok, I think that's about the longest post ever. I hope most of it makes sense... I'm tired! Ask any questions you may have and I'll do my best to answer. As long as this is, I know I didn't include everything...
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