Question Harness vs. Booster, moving up from Radian to Frontier?

I recently turned my son's RXT FF when he outgrew the weight limit RF. Now I'm realizing that he seems to be quite close to the FF harnessed limit as well, after having to raise the harness up a slot to raise the straps above his shoulders.

So, my first question is, how do I tell for sure how much growing room he has? I think I'm supposed to park on flat ground and put a ruler in the slot, correct? If it's parallel to the ground or angled up behind him, he's good, but any angle down behind him and he has outgrown it, right?

Assuming he has nearly (or entirely) outgrown it I realize that, at almost 5 years old and 47ish lbs, a lot of people will be likely be in the "Shucks, he's ready for a booster, forget the harness!" camp (assuming he can pass the 5 point test, of course). Buuuuut... I'm totally anal and paranoid about safety and I don't want to think for one iota of a minute that I am not keeping him as safe as possible.

So... am I actually being paranoid, or is there some evidence-based reasoning behind tethering as long as possible? I know I've often heard to keep them at each stage as long as possible and it makes sense to me that a tether would distribute the impact better in a crash. Heck, race car drivers must wear a 5-pt harness for a reason, don't they? If I am being paranoid, can you prove it to me? Is there good evidence to show a child his age and size will be equally--or more--safe in a booster?

Unless I feel persuaded that a booster is at least as safe, I'm likely to get a CR with higher top slots than our Radian. The Frontier obviously stands out since it has the highest slots and the older models are a bit more affordable right now, so I have a some questions about it:

• I haven't seen a Frontier XT or XT SICT in person but have read they are big; how big is big? In comparison to our RXT, maybe?
• Will one or both likely puzzle well in our 2001 Chrysler Intrepid and other vehicles (especially grandma's 2002 Honda Civic, though that's a rarity) beside DD's RF RXT and eventually if her RXT turns FF? I prefer to have DS centre rather than both outboard since he's less protected FF and because I often sit beside them back there to keep them company, especially on long trips. DD is 26 months, 32 lbs and 34 inches and I plan to long term RF her as well.

Also open to info on the Nautilus, SecureKid, etc., if you think they are viable options considering his height now. Questions:

• Especially interested to know if any of the other CRs with high top slots have a shallow depth that might fit on the rear seat of our extended cab 2001 Dodge Dakota. I realize that's unlikely, though, and I will likely have to keep the Radian until he fully outgrows the slots and then use it as a booster if I can or find a dedicated booster.
• On that note, any recommendations for a dedicated booster (hopefully with removable high back) that would likely work well in that small space? Hopefully something with a not huge price tag.

Thanks!

Can anyone enlighten me about harness vs. booster safety and give me more info on Combination seats?

I assume by 5-point test, you mean 5-step test. That does not apply to moving from harness to booster. It applies from booster to vehicle seatbelt without a booster. You will get a variety of responses on harness or booster safety. Yes race car drivers use harnesses, but they also use HANS devices to restrain their heads. When in a harness, there are increased loads on the head/neck in a crash. I personally move my kids to dedicated boosters at 5/40 for this reason. Others here do not. Our vehicles are new, with good crash test score and my kids are car-seat compliant in boosters. Re your truck, you may have problems finding a booster that will work on that bench. IIRC, it is not very deep and most dedicated boosters don't allow overhang. On the RN, usually once the harness is outgrown, so is the booster.

There isn't any evidence one way or another -- the studies haven't happened -- to say definitively that harnessing is better or worse once a child can reliably and consistently sit properly in a well-fitting booster. Only you would know if your child at nearly 5 is able to do that, always.

The Frontier is big. It's probably about 50% wider than a Radian, and several inches deeper. Its shape sometimes doesn't play well at all with a shallow back seat because it will tend to slip forward and you won't get that 80% of the base on the vehicle seat. The Frontier doesn't really puzzle with anything. It's wide. You might get it next to something if your back seat is already enormously wide. Here's a picture showing a Frontier beside a Radian. The SICT version is the same size down around the hips, it's up around the shoulders and head where it gets even more massive. http://www.flickr.com/photos/100924887@N08/9886374326/

Most, if not all, boosters require 100% of the seat on the vehicle seat. Hopefully someone will chime in if there's one that doesn't require it.

You are correct in how to determine if the Radian is outgrown FF. If you choose to go the booster route the Graco Turbo Booster is a good choice and is what I'd start with for a shallow back seat.

Thanks for your responses! Ugh, I'm feeling even more muddled in my decision making, though I ended up finding an acquaintance with a Frontier SICT and tried it in our car. With the buckle stalks twisted 3 times, the buckle/latchplate angle was terrible and I couldn't get a good install. With the buckle stalk threaded through the buckle channel (for lack of a better description) and pulled SUPER tight, I was able to get what looked like a solid install...BUT the entire buckle was sitting right in behind the padding of the CR seatback, creating a big bulge on one side. I have to thread the buckle stalk through like this on my Radian as well, but there is hard foam on the inside of the CR that creates a channel for the buckle to sit in and the padding is a bit more cushy, so it doesn't seem to bother DS. The Frontier looks VERY uncomfortable as it is and I would wonder if it is safe as well, since I could foresee back injuries because of it. Here are some photos:




What do you think of that? Is that even allowable? Is there anything that can be done?

Aaaaand, after testing the Radian out, unless I'm doing something wrong, I think DS has definitely outgrown it, and by a fair bit At first glance it looks like the straps are right level with his shoulders, but it seems the padding is pushing them up a bit; I think the slots in the plastic are a good 1/2"-1" below his shoulders. Unless I'm doing it wrong? Excuse the rhythm stick as a measuring device, I didn't have a ruler.




Has he outgrown it or is there another slot hiding under there that I'm not aware of?

Assuming he has outgrown the Radian harness and the Frontier doesn't work for us (unless there's a way to get around the giant lower back lump issue), what would you recommend for me? I know there are a few other seats out there that harness past the Radian but, with him having outgrown it by this much already, will any of those fit any better? I would prefer to keep him harnessed awhile longer because, although we've talked about car safety a lot and I think he would be able to stay seated correctly, I'm not 100% sure he won't get distracted and forget sometimes, or come out of position on the rare occasion that he sleeps on a longer trip.

So assuming the Frontier is out...it looks like the Maestro is out as well due to the weight limit, since DS is already 47ish lbs without boots, etc., on. So are the Nautilus and SecureKid the only other options for high harnessing? And are they actually a practical difference, seeing how far DS has already outgrown the Radian? Which would give more of a real difference on our Intrepid's sloped seats? It sounds like the SK doesn't fit bigger kids overly well, so that might be an issue for DS. Which makes a better and longer lasting booster? Which is more comfortable? Which will work better with our long, bulky buckle stalks? Are there any other options out there?

I only have a second so I will address the Radian - the head wings go WAY higher than that so I suspect you have a whole other harness slot under there. Undo the velcro at the top of the cover, above the head wings, and reach in and wiggle them up. At the very least they're covering the harness and forcing them down, and at best you have a whole other slot. If so - problem solved?

Pixelated said:

I only have a second so I will address the Radian - the head wings go WAY higher than that so I suspect you have a whole other harness slot under there. Undo the velcro at the top of the cover, above the head wings, and reach in and wiggle them up. At the very least they're covering the harness and forcing them down, and at best you have a whole other slot. If so - problem solved?

Click to expand...

Thanks, I did realize after posting the photo that the headwings were down. They constantly shift down and we have to adjust them back up almost every time we strap him in. I have only been able to get them about an inch or two higher than that, though, and they aren't pushing the harness down...as I mentioned, I actually had to angle the stick downwards through the slot a good 1/2"-1" to reach the slot in the shell. I just remembered, too, that I am pretty sure I put the harness through the top slots (looking from the back) when I installed it FF initially, but I will check again.