International travel and car seats

I'm mentally planning way in advance for a trip to Scotland next June. We will be renting a car and doing a lot of driving, so we will need car seats. We will be renting a 7 passenger car to accommodation everyone. At the time of travel, my kids will be almost 6, 3.5, and 6-8 weeks. Baby will likely NOT have a ticket on the plane because this trip is being gifted to us and we will not have the money to afford a ticket. I would really like to avoid bringing car seats on the plane. My 3.5 yr old will be able to use the CARES harness in flight.

My options seem to be, checking car seats in shipping boxes, renting car seats in Scotland, or using my 3.5 yr old's set on the plane, bringing a booster for the 6 yr old, and bringing an infant seat. Since we do plan on a decent amount of driving, I'm not comfortable with my older DD in a bubble bum. She's just starting to use a hbb is some cars now and I expect her to sleep on the trip.

We went to Hawaii when the older kids were 2.5 and 5 months and my DH is still complaining about having to lug car seats through an airport! We had them rigged on double stroller to help. He is pretty adamant that we NOT bring them unless we really have to, or unless we can guarantee that they will work in the car there. Any checked baggage will have to be paid for as well, so it would equal out to about the same cost as renting the seats there.

I've read that using US seats in Europe is illegal. Would my seats even be compatible with cars there? I don't love the idea of renting car seats there, but it seems like it might make the travel process a little easier.

From what I understand is not illegal to use an American seat overseas, if you are an American on vacation, but if you are living there, then it becomes illegal. I believe their is a booster that is recommended that you pack the back part in your suitcase, bring the bottom part on the plane (not to use, just to put in overhead bin) that way if the airline lose your luggage you still have nbb booster. Not sure of the name, maybe Harmony? I would bring along a seat for the 3 year old to use on the plane and the infant seat/stroller and gate check those (unless their is a free seat on the plane) (and check for damage after arriving). I believe (no personal experience with Scotland) that most US seats will work, they just do not have locking seat belts so you need to use a locking clip/lock offs. You could try and look for a car seat rental but I would personally be uncomfortable, as you do not know the history of the seats, or if they will be a good fit for your children. Also check with your airline often times on piece of luggage comes standard with international travel, and some airlines will give you a free luggage if it is the baby's (Delta did for me for a domestic flight).

Hopefully someone with more knowledge can chime in because I have no personal experience. In the end its up to you if you decide that its worth the risk to rent seats vs drag them through the airport. Good luck with whatever you choose!

UK law does require that carseats meet EU standards, but there is almost no chance of having this enforced, especially as a visitor. In my opinion, you will be much better off bringing your own carseats that you're familiar with and know how to use and install.

If you rent a seat, you really don't know what you will be getting (or if there will even be one available for you at all when you get there). I've heard of so many problems over the years, and just recently friends of ours got stuck with a booster seat as the only thing available for their 2-year-old.

Even if you do get proper rental seats, European carseats can have tricky/unfamilar designs (e.g. infant seat bases installed using the shoulder belt) and you may not be given all of the documentation.

Now, even with your own carseats, installation will be a little different, since most vehicles don't have LATCH (Isofix) and most seatbelts do not have automatic locking retractors. If you have a seat with built-in lockoffs (like most Britax seats), that might make life easier on you than using a locking clip.

We went to France a few years ago and brought our own carseats for the taxi rides to/from the airport. It was actually pretty manageable.

In your situation I'd recommend:

6-year-old: Backless booster, bring as carry-on. (Or HBB with back portion packed in luggage, if you're not comfortable with the NBB. But by next summer you'll have had much more time to practice with a backless, and on vacation you may be able to arrange to have an adult sitting next to her in case she falls asleep. My daughter fell asleep in her Bubble Bum on a taxi ride and my wife was able to keep her in position.)

3-year-old: Convertible carseat, install on plane. Again, using one with lockoffs will make life easier.

Baby: Infant seat, no base, install on plane if space available or gate-check.

Carrying two carseats through an airport isn't fun, but I have done it myself without (too much) complaint because it is usually the safest bet. If you can rig up some sort of wheeled cart or even just use your stroller, it will be pretty smooth.

And if you have your kids ride in their seats on the plane, they will be a) safer b) more comfortable and c) your seats will not get lost or damaged and d) there will be no charge since they do not incur fees when the child is riding in them.

We flew to London last summer with our then 2 year old. The car seat was so valuable on the plane, it was worth every bit of hassle. DS slept through the night (overnight flight) and ended up adjusting to the time change better than any of us did because of it. The car seat was familiar and comfortable even though it was installed forward facing and he wasn't used to forward facing in it. I would have rear faced him on the plane but British Airways does not allow that. To get the car seat through the airport, I strapped it to our stroller and piled our carry on luggage on top so we weren't lugging it through the airport and I carried DS on my back in a carrier.

If you're organized, taking the car seats shouldn't be such a big deal if there are two of you. One of your children will be able to walk the whole time and can maybe pull something. The youngest won't be crawling yet and the infant seat is easy to bring. You're only dealing with one convertible.

Sounds like using the stroller didn't work too well. You definitely won't need a double stroller next summer. A luggage cart might be better, like I used to use.

One parent pull the car seats and the other pushes a single stroller? Be sure to have a good quality baby carrier. I recommend a ring sling if you breastfeed to position the baby, act as a cover-up and carry the baby in the airport. Be sure if she's a lap baby that she's not in anything attached to you during take-off and landing. Babies are safer loose in your lap (if not in a car seat).

For the record, I use American car seats in Europe. You might need a locking clip, depending on the car and the seat. I've even had police inspections and once even installed my car seat in a French police car. Needless to say, I didn't get in any sort of trouble!

Just chiming in on the grumpy husband aspect... I have been there Since you have lots of time to prepare, make sure to get him used to the idea that lugging seats is a necessary part of the trip. He wouldn't complain about bringing luggage... Car seats aren't optional, either.

Good luck!

thepote said:

Just chiming in on the grumpy husband aspect... I have been there Since you have lots of time to prepare, make sure to get him used to the idea that lugging seats is a necessary part of the trip. He wouldn't complain about bringing luggage... Car seats aren't optional, either.

Good luck!

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Glad someone can commiserate! We have flown with seats after Hawaii and every time we talk about flying somewhere, he looks at me in horror because of the lugging around!

I'll have to see how my son does by that point, because as of now, all he would do in a car seat on the plane is KICK the seat in front of him. He's the kid who loooves the attention he gets from doing what he's not supposed to. He does not sleep well in a car seat either. I have a TFP, so that would solve the locking clip issue. However, if he still fits in a Scenera, I might buy one of those to bring. He's tall though now, so we'll see what he's like then.

Will your 3.5 yo be RF or FF? Keep in mind that there is only one European seat that harnesses over 18 kg and that is the TWE which you will not find as a rental. In fact, any rental agency will give you a booster for your 3.5 yo. So For your middle child, either bring a seat on board or consider an RSTV. The RSTV is not legal here (not are using American seats unless you are here as military... Even for visitors... But no one us going to check). If you want to RF you'd best bring a seat.

I'd bring a HBB like PP suggested. Maybe grab a TB (we have the sane seat in Europe so it won't look foreign), check the back and carry on the LBB part for reasons stated above.

I'd bubble wrap your infant seat and pack it with clothes all around it or check it in a box. Practice baseless installs with a locking clip unless the seat has built in lockoffs.

aries416 said:

I'll have to see how my son does by that point, because as of now, all he would do in a car seat on the plane is KICK the seat in front of him. He's the kid who loooves the attention he gets from doing what he's not supposed to.
I have a TFP, so that would solve the locking clip issue...

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Maybe Dad could sit in front of him so he wont be bothering another passenger?
Not that Dad wont get annoyed at him kicking his seat... Also couldn't he still kick the seat in front of him if he didn't have a car seat?

The TFP is nice because of the locking clips, but that thing is HEAVY to lug around especially on a plane and wont fit unless you have the arm rests up.

Good job planning this out in advance, and best of luck with your vacation, remind your husband that a little inconvenience is a good trade off for increased safety.

I wouldn't check any car seats as luggage. The box might go over the limits and you still risk it being lost en route. Would would you do with the infant if her seat doesn't arrive?

I noticed the kids without car seats kicked worse because their legs stuck out of the adult seat. Every time they got out, they had to slide down and that invariably, they would then knock the seat in front. ITA about putting dad in front. This works out quite well with a family of 5. You put dad and oldest in front and seat the younger two and yourself behind. Hopefully, you'll get a seat for the baby and have the row of 3.

This is better than putting a parent across the aisle because it splits the "work". He has one kid to be "in charge of". I found that when dh was in another row, he tuned up out and I was stuck doing everything. You can pass things and talk to each other more easily.

I think by 3 1/2, he'll be more reasonable. I always told parents to tell their children not to "kick" (a word open to interpretation) but to not touch the seat in front. Usually, this is too tall an order but in aiming higher, in their effort to not touch, they managed to not touch it enough that the person in front could feel it. These are clearer instructions since a touch is a touch. Often kids would lament "...but I didn't KICK the seat in front!" and they really didn't. There are places on aircraft seats that are very thin. Feel the part at the small of the back next time you fly. You can feel everything, even a little touch there. A car seat usually lifts their feet up higher so they're out of the way of this sensitive zone. It also allows them to sit more naturally with their knees bent, so that the legs don't stick out.

I can definitely relate in the grumpy husband. DS is a better traveler than DH. I dealt by taking DH out of the equation. I planned all the carry ons and the seat/child transport. I would give DH specific tasks because otherwise he would stress over little things that didn't matter. Delegation is how we survived that trip.

monica-m said:

I can definitely relate in the grumpy husband. DS is a better traveler than DH. I dealt by taking DH out of the equation. I planned all the carry ons and the seat/child transport. I would give DH specific tasks because otherwise he would stress over little things that didn't matter. Delegation is how we survived that trip.

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Amen. That's the only way I can travel with DH. Poor guy is so flipping particular (maybe even OCD) and anxious that a wonderful trip can turn into a logistical nightmare in his head.

Thirsty4Knowledge said:

Amen. That's the only way I can travel with DH. Poor guy is so flipping particular (maybe even OCD) and anxious that a wonderful trip can turn into a logistical nightmare in his head.

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Are we married to the same guy!?!

monica-m said:

Are we married to the same guy!?!

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LOL

When I flew with my toddler, I took her convertible car seat (Britax Blvd) and used a Go-Go Babyz Travelmate (with the inline skate wheels) to haul the carseat around. Also can serve as a 'stroller' through the airport for one of the kids (maybe middle one, as older can walk and youngest can be in carrier/sling) or to carry some of your carry-on stuff. When using this, I was mindful to set it down gently, as your carseat base will touch the ground. The travelmate then tucks into overhead storage. I was not charged for it as it seemed part of the seat.

On some intl flights, one can get the bulkhead seats and they have bassinets. (and noone in front for the eldest to kick)

Please NEVER put an item like this in the overhead bin. They're not allowed by many airlines because of the injuries they can cause. Sliding it under the seat in front is much smarter. We were told to catch any passengers trying to do this with carts, strollers and canes.

Also, the Travelmate is basically an overpriced luggage cart so it's better to just get a normal luggage cart from your local Kmart or wherever. The Travelmate also has a plastic base. I had another cart with a plastic base break on me in the middle of the airport. Pre-kid days, at least I only had the suitcase to carry, and not a kid+car seat to deal with.

The new Travelmate looks even worse for this job because there is no base. I don't see how two car seats can get stacked on the same one. A luggage cart can handle it with a few bungees.

I have one of those husbands too. I found also that the way to deal with him is to take control and just organize it before he has time to scratch his... I will admit, it's easier to do this because I flew for a living for 13 years and have been flying myself since I was 8 weeks old. Airports and flying are my "thing". So just pretend you know what you're doing, even when you don't. Read my article and let this board help you. You'll be an expert in no time!

Here's some pop psychology for you; people who are stressed over a trip tend to obsess over one aspect of it. I think that must be some way our brains cope. Often, it's the flight. Or some detail of the flight. I know I do it myself. I worry about the packing. I have forgotten too many crucial items on countless flights that I've developed all sorts of stress over this. I also get into the timing. We never leave soon enough (Flight Attendants get fired for being late and get nightmares over not getting there on time). I've had my family glaring at me in a half-empty airport in the middle of the night but hey, we weren't late!

So see if you can get him to shift the stress onto another aspect of the trip that he can deal with by himself. "Are you sure they'll have enough 7 seaters when we arrive" or whatever. Let him get bent out of shape over the accommodations in wherever...

So as soon as he mentions "car seats" and "flights", then remind him to book the baby bed in X hotel...

Thanks everyone! I warmed DH up to the idea of bringing the seats...then I called Aer Lingus and they said my 3.5 yr old could not use a seat on the plane. Um? Any experience with this airline?

I have had to battle it out with flight attendants before with the CARES harness (they held the flight because they didn't believe the documentation saying it was FAA approved!). The pilot was recognized it though when they showed him.

Found this onlinea

nfants (between 6-24 months)

If the infant reaches the age of 2 years prior to the return journey they must pay the applicable fare, taxes, fees and charges for that part of the journey.

Aer Lingus Flights (Not applicable to Aer Lingus Regional)


Car type safety seats may be used by children aged between 6 months and less than 36 months - in order to accommodate a child aged 36 months or older in a car seat; the child must be within the size and weight limits for that seat and special IAA approval is required, please contact specialassistance@aerlingus.com as soon as possible in advance of the flight.
Passengers may purchase a seat for the infant at the appropriate fare where the infant can sit in an approved, forward facing car seat provided by the passenger. The car seat must be restrained on the aircraft seat by the normal aircraft lap strap. Aer Lingus do not permit rearward facing car seats. The seat must be a purpose-designed children's car seat with a 5-point harness and must be of a type approved for use in motor vehicles and aircraft and bearing labels to this effect:

U.S. – This must display an FAA sticker and must display these words. "Certified for use in motor vehicles and aircraft".

EUROPEAN - This must display a CE sticker and must display these words. "Certified for use in motor vehicles and aircraft".
In order to ensure the car seat will fit into the aircraft seat please ensure the seat width does not exceed 17 inches (430mm).

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http://www.aerlingus.com/travelinformation/knowbeforeyoufly/travellingwithchildren/

1mommy said:

Found this onlinea



http://www.aerlingus.com/travelinformation/knowbeforeyoufly/travellingwithchildren/

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I will e-mail them, but he'll be over 36 months by then. Maybe I can just lie about his age?