town&country vrs sienna vrs ody, newer models

Discuss please?

Chrysler is cheaper (negated by the lower resale value), but smaller. Best feature is either Stow and Go or the 2 screens for the rear dvd players. Best if on a budget and don't need max size. Think of it as a 7/8ths size of the Sienna/Odyssey.

IMO:
Sienna and Odyssey are pretty evenly matched. Overall, I think the Sienna has better pricing when comparing feature with feature. Not by too much tho and your local dealer's prices can wipe this out.

Sienna has a quieter and smoother ride. Optional panoramic moonroof availability. That 2nd row reclining seat is pretty useless as it completely wipes out legroom for the driver/front passenger AND 3rd row if you deploy it. The 2nd row tracks are raised and trip me up and are just asking to be filled with crap that's hard to clean. If you get leather, the 3rd row has dramatically worse vinyl then the leather in the rest of the car. Quality of the plastics is laughably bad IMO (the main reason I couldn't deal with the Sienna). 8th seat is small and stowable (can be good or bad). Not as many LATCH spots as on the Ody.

Honda sweated the small details which is why I bought it. It is a good bit noisier than the Sienna. Toyota is much better at making a smooth, quiet ride. Other than that, the Ody is better in every way IMO. Especially the 2014 model which wiped out any feature disadvantage the Sienna may have had. Even then, the little things are better on the Ody. 2nd row seats at the bottom are hollow, so 3rd row occupants can slide their feet under greatly increasing legroom and comfort (especially compared to the Sienna). The rear vents under the front row seats have a lip in front so loose toys, cheerios, etc can't roll into the vents (not so on the Sienna). Interior materials feel a lot better. In the trunk, the folding mechanism isn't exposed. In the Sienna, there's a ton of plastic from the folding mechanism which makes the trunk a little irregular shaped and will scratch easily over time from putting stuff in the trunk. Because the 8th seat is full sized and the outboard seats can slide sideways out, you have a ton more flexibility in how you want to transport 8 people in comfort. Regular 2 prong plug and HDMI is incredibly useful for all the electronics kids have today. The trash bag ring is super handy. The Cool Box is actually not as useful as you might think. The removable center console is a god send for cleaning. Watch out for curbs when parking cuz the front chin is lower than normal (tradeoff for the amazing gas mileage). On roadtrips with pure highway miles, you really do get 430+ miles on a tank (nice to be able to go from SoCal to NorCal on one tank of gas).

I have 2 brother-in-laws who are Toyota mechanics. Even they admit the Odyssey is a better van.

Are you looking new or used? I love our '06 Ody. I really like that I can remove the 2nd row console (or 8th seat in some models) and slide the captains chair over to create an aisle to the back. I love the 5 top tethers so I can arrange seats anywhere I want. The rear air vents are on the ceiling which was the only thing that kept DD2's car sickness from being worse. I could keep cool air directly on her even though she's rf. We hated the PAX run flat tires that came with it, but that's only on the Touring models in '06/'07 mostly. If I was getting a van right now, I'd be torn between getting the newest old gen Ody I could find or the new gen. The 2nd row is so roomy in the new ones, but I'd miss the 2nd row ceiling vents and being able to slide a seat over. With 4 kids and a lot of carsickness, I think I prefer the older model.

Thanks to both of you! I am asking for a friend who likes the look of the T&C better, but does not want to end up with a bummer of a van. I like the look of the T&C as well, also like the Sienna and Ody's look too. You all are such a wealth of info I just had to ask here. Any reason the T&C is a bummer? Or is it a fair choice?

http://www.edmunds.com/chrysler/town-and-country/2014/#fullreview

Pay attention to the negatives. To be realistic, amplify the negatives and downgrade the positives. Pro reviewers tend to gloss over bad stuff and exaggerate the good stuff.

I wouldn't call it a bummer. I've rented one. It's just ok, but it did convince DW to get over her "minivan over my dead body" attitude. It's a refinement thing. Ergonomics. It's clear that Toyota and Honda spent a TON more time and money fine tuning things so that things just feel better, work better, etc. At first glance, the T&C seems fine. I've ridden in the current one (but haven't lived with one). Drivetrain and materials have improved, but it's still got issues (they all do actually, but the Odyssey has the least problems IMO). Mainly, if you compare, then stuff just starts popping up. Like, "oh, that's smart (in the Sienna/Ody)" or "man, I wish that this didn't... (in the T&C)". Space wise, if you go to the airport or longer trip, you're like, "oh, I wish I had just a touch more space" which doesn't happen as often with the Sienna/Odyssey.

In short, if you never compare, you'll never really know how bad the T&C is. On it's own, it's ok. I mean, it's got lots of features compared to a T&C from 15 years ago. It's just when you compare to it's competition that you realize it's a lower class vehicle.

We replaced an 08 8 pass sienna with a 12 Honda Ody. I still miss some things about my old sienna - that 8th seat was better. The trunk was bigger. And we got leather over fabric this time which I still go back and forth on.

The Old siennas and Odys both have a lot going for them so if you can find a used one that looks good I'd consider it.

I do not like the new Sienna much at all. For starters we got turned off Toyota because of lousy handling of a persistent leak in our old van - that was why we got rid of it. Finally drove me batty. Made us hesitant to go with Toyota again. But beyond that I hated the tracks in the floor, the swoosh on the dash board, and just the cheap feel to the interior.

The Honda is not perfect. The 8th seat is decent but skinny. You can move the outer seats to wide mode to have more room for a car seat in the middle but IMO it would make more sense to just make that middle seat wider. Unless you buy the top of the line the 3rd row has no speakers - we put those in ourselves. 3rd row doesn't get sun shades until you do touring - we put those in ourselves too (we have an ex-l with the DVD) The 3rd row windows do no open which makes me completely homicidal esp. when my girls start yelling from back there that they miss the OLD CAR and I never should have gotten rid of the OLD CAR. (Seriously Honda. WHY???) Roof rails not included which has led to multiple marital disagreements.

However there is LATCH everywhere and the 3rd row is roomy for even an adult which is a big deal for us since with 4 kids we use that row daily. comfy seating all around. Drives well. My city miles are kind of lousy but my road trip miles are stellar - 28+ on highways fully loaded (we just got back from New York)

My main quibbles with the dodge/chrylser are cramped sloped 3rd row and smaller trunk.

Honda and Toyota both did a dumb thing not allowing you to move a captains chair over any more. I have actully written honda about this and they actually got back to me! Told them allow an outboard to move over or widen that 8th seat so sitting on it by itself is a workable option if you need more room or a side aisle etc.

I have rented many a Caravan when my Sienna was in the shop. They are OK. If I had 2 kids I would be OK with one. I know people with 5 who make a Dodge work, personally I wouldn't want to. I guess partly it comes down to your family's needs. For us, the new Ody works very well. For others it might be overkill.

Hmm, I need to write to Honda then. I have a minor quibble but it sorely needs to be addressed cuz it's beyond stupid. Deals with the HID lights.

And yeah, I agree that the 2010 and older gen of the Sienna is likely better than any of the new gen ones. Not sure I agree that the 2010 Odyssey is better tho. It's not bad, but I like the new one better.

And for what it's worth, I'd get a used 2010 Sienna over a new 2013/2014 Town & Country.

codex57 said:

Hmm, I need to write to Honda then. I have a minor quibble but it sorely needs to be addressed cuz it's beyond stupid. Deals with the HID lights.

And yeah, I agree that the 2010 and older gen of the Sienna is likely better than any of the new gen ones. Not sure I agree that the 2010 Odyssey is better tho. It's not bad, but I like the new one better.

And for what it's worth, I'd get a used 2010 Sienna over a new 2013/2014 Town & Country.

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What about the headlights? Mine drive me bananas. There is a line at night and it is light below and dark as cats above. Since you don't test drive at night this isn't something I noticed when test driving. I don't know if this is the way things are going with headlights or what - my cousin just got a new Highlander and he says his do this too. I don't think I have HID, though, just normal - i have the ex-l.

YinzerMama said:

What about the headlights? Mine drive me bananas. There is a line at night and it is light below and dark as cats above. Since you don't test drive at night this isn't something I noticed when test driving. I don't know if this is the way things are going with headlights or what - my cousin just got a new Highlander and he says his do this too. I don't think I have HID, though, just normal - i have the ex-l.

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That's actually supposed to be a safety feature. To not blind oncoming traffic, cars ahead of you, etc. Pretty sure that is performing as designed based on what you described.

My quibble is the auto headlight feature. Lights shut off when you turn car off. Turn back on when you open the door. Shut off when you close it. Basically, when you stop and leave the car at night, it's like turning on and off your headlights one extra time unnecessarily. HID headlights are supposed to be left on for at least a minute (same with flourescent lights I think). If you turn them on and off quickly, it burns them out a lot sooner. And they're EXPENSIVE to replace. Can't wait until LED headlights replace HID ones cuz LED doesn't have that problem. This on/off programming isn't a big deal for regular halogen lights. Just for the HID on the Touring Elite model.

My husband has actually speculated that, that it is so as to not blind other drivers... and it works fine, on level ground. But it is so hilly around here, if you are going up hill, or even worse on lots of little up and downs, it aims right at the ground so much I feel like I may as well not have headlights on. Then I feel like a jerk using high beams, because I never remember to turn them off.

YinzerMama said:

My husband has actually speculated that, that it is so as to not blind other drivers... and it works fine, on level ground. But it is so hilly around here, if you are going up hill, or even worse on lots of little up and downs, it aims right at the ground so much I feel like I may as well not have headlights on. Then I feel like a jerk using high beams, because I never remember to turn them off.

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Give it a few years. Audi has LED technology that will take care of that. Except there's some antiquated law the prohibits it in the US (written in like the 50s or 60s when they didn't expect lighting to be so advanced). Everyone also has tech to move the beams from side to side when on curves. Shouldn't be too hard to adapt it to up and down as well. Or the auto high beam tech. However, LED clearly is the future and I think the auto manufacturers are hoping for a law change instead.

I recently crossed over to the dark side and purchased my very first mini van. I decided beforehand I would purchase a Toyota, Honda, or Nissan since I drive a car until it is ready for the retirement home. Our family has had too many issues with the Chrysler/Dodge brand, so I never even looked at them.
I drove both the Toyota Sienna and the Honda Odyssey.
I liked them both, but with a slight preference for the Odyssey.
I ended up getting the Odyssey. My only complaint is that no luggage rack is offered.
And I now wish I would have gotten the EXL rather than EX so that I would have power lift gate and a sun roof. I don't care about leather.
We have taken it on vacation. Good gas mileage and very comfortable.
Already spoiled by that rear back-up camera.

MamaMia18 said:

My only complaint is that no luggage rack is offered.

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http://www.handa-accessories.com/odyext11.html

See "Roof Rack" and "Crossbars". Honda didn't put it on the van at the factory cuz they hurt gas mileage a bit and most people never use it. I have it, and to be honest, I really should take at least the cross bars off cuz I never use the rack and have no plans for the foreseeable future.

I think that line about it saving gas was just a weak justification for cutting corners. Why not just make the cross bars easier to remove so people can decide take them off for gas savings but have them if needed? The roof rack is a sticking point with hubs and I because I wanted one and he insisted we never used it with the old van. But with the old van for the bulk of the time we had it we had 3 kids so could have the whole back flat for stuff if needed.

We really need it.

I'm checking salvage yards around me.

YinzerMama said:

I think that line about it saving gas was just a weak justification for cutting corners. Why not just make the cross bars easier to remove so people can decide take them off for gas savings but have them if needed? The roof rack is a sticking point with hubs and I because I wanted one and he insisted we never used it with the old van. But with the old van for the bulk of the time we had it we had 3 kids so could have the whole back flat for stuff if needed.

We really need it.

I'm checking salvage yards around me.

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Why do you need to check a salvage yard? Cost? I mean, Honda makes one. They just have it as an accessory instead of a factory option. I linked to a dealer who sells them cheap.

The cross bars are removeable by the customer. You just need a hex key and 10 minutes IIRC. It's not any different from all other roof racks on other vans and SUVs.

I don't see why it's such a big issue. They exist. Aren't any more expensive than other companies. Instructions are online if you want to install yourself. Vehicle is designed to accept it.

It does affect fuel economy. Not a huge amount but Honda did a bunch of small tweaks that added up to them having the best fuel economy so every little bit counts for them. It's marketing, with looks a secondary reason.

Kinda like how there are 2WD SUVs. They sell tons of 2WD SUVs because they know people just drive the things for looks n never actually need 4WD. Research has shown most people never use their factory roof racks. They still offer it for those who do.

I've looked into ordering them in the past from majestic and H&A. The shipping from H&A ends up being insane since they are long. Can't remember what it was with Majestic but their shipping on other stuff worked out better for us. If I could find an OEM part around here in good shape, no shipping, cheaper than new, why shouldn't I? It's not something I need urgently but will need in the next few years. So I'm putting feelers out, seeing what happens. Seems logical to me.

Honda cross bars aren't adjustable, whereas almost all other car manufacturers seem to be. So on every other model isn't there just a thumb screw? The big twisty part? Yes you can remove the Honda ones but it still takes tools. Shouldn't it be possible for it to be tooless and easier?

I just feel like they took away something useful - storage capability - and are trying to market it as a plus. Better fuel economy! Yeah but now I have to pay extra for a roof rack on a van I just spend $34k on. I figure most people who buy a minivan have enough people to fill the van that having the ability to store things on the roof is more of a must than something nice to have. Maybe they could have improved the roof rack, or stressed that removing the cross bars when not in use will improve your fuel efficiency... I'm just not convinced selling the car without a roof rack was entirely altruistic of them.

For most things, it's a give and take. They made a big stink with the fuel economy cuz the gov't penalizes them if it gets low and it's great for marketing. The reason I think it's fairly legit is cuz there are a few other things they did for fuel economy that can be a little annoying.

First is the 6 speed auto. It seems largely sorted out now, but especially for the 2011 models, the 6 speed suffered from the infamous Honda tranny problems. Granted, Toyota had major problems with their 6 speed too, but still. Honda went with a problematic transmission in order to eke out a bit more gas mileage.

The other major thing is the front air dam. It's lower than on most other cars. For aerodynamics, which improves fuel efficiency. Fancier cars coming out now (such as the 2015 Ford F-150 based on the spy photos) have a motorized one that pops down at speed, but raises up at low speeds. Honda didn't go that fancy, and just stuck a lower one in. It's 1/2 to 1 inch too low IMO.

If you read the forums related to ski racks and stuff, people do pretty extensive testing in regards to how much a roof rack affects their gas mileage. It can make a fairly big dent (relatively). 1/2 to 1 mpg typically. Possibly more for some of those aftermarket ones.

I dunno, the factory roof racks tend to be fixed or very limited positioning. From what I've seen. If you want well designed ones with convenient features (like lots of positions), you have to go aftermarket. Personally, I've never seen another factory model one where it's just a thumb screw. Seems like they wouldn't to prevent theft. I mean, could they design it so that it has more positions but still is easy to move? Most likely. I've just never seen a car manufacturer put that much thought into their roof racks. They leave that to the aftermarket (where you can get the cross bars that mount easily and move easily, just relying on the factory rails or use the aftermarket rails).

Where's Majestic located?

There appears to be 3 major discount Honda accessory dealers in the US. As in actual Honda dealerships that have a big side business selling accessories over the internet. H&A (where I got my van incidentally) is on the West Coast. There's one in the Northeast and one more in the middle (altho it may be in Ohio so not totally central US like Kansas or anything). Depending on where you live, the closest one to you might have a slightly more reasonable shipping charge. The cars are so new, i wonder if you'll be able to find one at a salvage yard.

Majestic is Rhode Island or somewhere new englandy. Def. closer to me which explains the pricing difference. I think the 3rd is in Chicago.

Honestly I am not OPPOSED to buying new. We ripped out the back our van and put speakers and sun shades in for the 3rd row. We took the bumper off and put a trailer hitch on. All of it new.

I've always just thought if you CAN find xyz at a salvage yard, why not? It costs nothing to email an inquiry.

We NEED a roof rack. If we had had brain one when we bought this car we'd have argued it into the selling point. Husband was more "Oh we never used it before..." but our old van was SO different! And we DID on occasion leave things at home that could have instead been put on the roof. So to keep peace with the hubs if I can find a killer price at a junk yard, I'm gonna jump on it. If not, I will buy new.

It's a new model car but they've been on the road 3 years or so and people have already totaled them so... you never know what's out there.

I really never would have thought the suggestion to be such a hot button issue? :scratcheshead:

I know putting a cargo box or what have you on the roof will eat mileage but JUST the rails?? Sorry, just not convinced. Why is no other car nixing the rack for mileage? Because a lot of people NEED the rack. I need to lose 25 pounds - if I cut off my leg I'd do it in a hurry but I'd also have no leg so... it's a benefit with a huge loss IMO. I just don't get it. Give people the option, tell them the benefits of leaving the cross bars home- don't remove it and claim you are doing them a favor. What good is a saving on gas if I have so much crap stuffed in my car I can't see out the back window?

If I only had 2 - 3 kids and didn't need my 3rd row for people I'd be OK with no rack but I'd also probably be driving a prius so.... sorry. I really feel like this was a cut off your nose despite your face move. None of the other changes to improve MPG affected functionality. But ixany the roof rack which a lot of people need? Sorry. Just never gonna agree with that one. Personally I need it. And if I can get one 50% by going the salvage route, I will.

I'm really just throwing the salvadge place out there as an option, not saying one should or shouldn't go either way. But I do know the price new, with shipping, is enough to make DH cling to his "we don't NEED it" stance. So... why not look? I've generally had good luck with salvage yards. Seats, mirrors, bumpers, fenders. Now I feel weirdly embarassed for mentioning it.

No, I check salvage yards too. I totally here ya on the salvage yard. Cept, maybe it's just around here but the newer import cars really don't show up there. Not until they're roughly 5+ yrs old. I didn't think they'd be a great option based on what I've seen around here, but if you manage to find one, that'd be awesome.