AOE problems?

Rebekah

New member
I just recently became a certified tech and have been researching seats like crazy - it is just so addicting! I know that the AOE is popular with parents, but is the car seat from Satan with CPS people. I am just wondering what the reasoning is for this intense dislike? Just for the record, I actually don't like the seat, and there was "just something about it" that I didn't like even before becoming interested in CPS. I have read and understand about the booster mode being basically unusable, but what about rf and ff? Have any of the issues been resolved with newer models? I have a lot to learn, and google turned up very little about the safety of the seat that wasn't related to the booster mode. TIA!
 
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safeinthecar

Moderator - CPS Technician
Used rfing and ffing, it's not "teh ebil" really. Especially the newer models, since they actually have decent harness height ffing. The main problems with the AOE have always been:

1: difficult install. You are supposed to recline the seat rfing to the level line in all cases, but it takes up a huge amount of room if you do and that often leaves techs in an awkward position trying to explain that the seat can't be used as instructed if the whole family wants to get home today, but that in general, more upright installs are considered safe by people other than Dorel. The base on the seat is wider than the LATCH anchors, making for a tricky LATCH install, and the belt path is very narrow, so using the seatbelt isn't a walk in the park either. When using a switchable retractor for a rfing install, the seat has a tendency to get pulled up easily by the shoulder belt and tip to an extreme degree, forcing you to use a locking clip. There isn't really a lot of space ot fit a locking clip and the latchplate between the base and the shell, so this, combined with the small beltpath leads to lots of hand abrasions and abrasive language. You used to be able to take the base off, but the new models don't allow that.

2: Lack of fit. The lowest harness slots are so low that most babies won't fit the harness until around 6 months old. The highest slots on the 40# models are so low that many kids will outgrow the seat ffing at about 2. Add to this, the highest slot for the headrest is only for booster use, BUT there isn't a lot of clear and visible warning about this.

3: Easy misuse. Booster mode is almost impossible to use correctly. I've seen a few (maybe 5 in 12 or so years) kids actually have a passable fit in booster mode, despite checking hundreds of the darn things. Threading the harness you have to go under the plastic bar but over the metal bar or the adjustment mechanism doesn't work at all. If you pull one adjuster tab all the way open but not the other when you go to move the harness up, you can detach the headrest adjuster thingies completely and they are decidedly NOT easy to put back on.

4: Truth in advertising. Self explanatory.
 

Brigala

CPST Instructor
Add to this, the highest slot for the headrest is only for booster use, BUT there isn't a lot of clear and visible warning about this.

Just to clarify, Dorel finally modified this design about 1.5 or 2 years ago, so brand new ones can be used in all positions. HOWEVER, we still see a ton of the older design at checks, so you have to double-check every time. I'm not sure I've ever seen one of this older design that wasn't already being used on the top, non-allowable position. Once I had someone come to my house for a seat check and to buy one new car seat I was advertising on CL, and I ended up selling my daughter's Radian right out from under her so the mom could go home with both her kids safely. Both seats were long-since outgrown and the mom had no idea because it's so hard to tell on those older AOEs & their clones.

And it's the car seat that just won't die, because it has a lifespan of 8-9 years.
 

Stelvis

New member
Just to clarify, Dorel finally modified this design about 1.5 or 2 years ago, so brand new ones can be used in all positions. HOWEVER, we still see a ton of the older design at checks, so you have to double-check every time. I'm not sure I've ever seen one of this older design that wasn't already being used on the top, non-allowable position. Once I had someone come to my house for a seat check and to buy one new car seat I was advertising on CL, and I ended up selling my daughter's Radian right out from under her so the mom could go home with both her kids safely. Both seats were long-since outgrown and the mom had no idea because it's so hard to tell on those older AOEs & their clones.

And it's the car seat that just won't die, because it has a lifespan of 8-9 years.

Is that true even of the crappy 40 lb FF weight limit one I see at Costco all the time still? WHY Costco WHY?
 

Rebekah

New member
Thanks for the info. My niece had this seat before I knew anything about seat safety, but I don't really remember much about it. She just recently outgrew it by weight (40 lbs. version). She's three, but a short and chunky build. Now I am curious which headrest position they were using before moving her out of it. How is the SureRide DLX as far as safety? My SIL agreed that my niece wasn't ready for a booster, but she didn't have a large budget so I recommended that one for the 65lb. limit and the price.
 

trippsmom

CPST Instructor
Thanks for the info. My niece had this seat before I knew anything about seat safety, but I don't really remember much about it. She just recently outgrew it by weight (40 lbs. version). She's three, but a short and chunky build. Now I am curious which headrest position they were using before moving her out of it. How is the SureRide DLX as far as safety? My SIL agreed that my niece wasn't ready for a booster, but she didn't have a large budget so I recommended that one for the 65lb. limit and the price.

The SureRide would be an excellent choice! It is my absolute favorite to work with at check up events. I have recommended it quite frequently in the past couple of months. It makes an awesome budget seat for people looking for a harness to last into booster age. The 19.5 inch top slots are the some of the highest on the market and the 65lbs weight limit is phenomenal. I have personally fitted it for a newborn and an 8.5 yo who weighed 64lbs. Both fit beautifully. I really think a parent could take this seat and use it for one child from birth to booster. Granted, 6yrs is all they'll get so it'd have to be the newest seat possible, but still...
 

Pixelated

Moderator - CPST Instructor
Is that true even of the crappy 40 lb FF weight limit one I see at Costco all the time still? WHY Costco WHY?

I think so - but up in Canada we don't have that version anymore (hallelujah!) and all of ours go to 40lbs RF and 65lbs FF. Ours also max out at 36" rear facing (which is an improvement from 32" of only a few years ago).

We do now have dual level lines to allow for a more upright install at 22lbs but it's still not that upright.

The Elite version has a much friendlier base shape; the non-Elite has a big wide one that is awful to work with, and bonus - it's the Walmart version that frequently goes on half price for $98, so I see it a lot. That version also only has one crotch buckle position so kids often fit poorly in it.
 

featherhead

Well-known member
I think so - but up in Canada we don't have that version anymore (hallelujah!) and all of ours go to 40lbs RF and 65lbs FF. Ours also max out at 36" rear facing (which is an improvement from 32" of only a few years ago).

We do now have dual level lines to allow for a more upright install at 22lbs but it's still not that upright.

The Elite version has a much friendlier base shape; the non-Elite has a big wide one that is awful to work with, and bonus - it's the Walmart version that frequently goes on half price for $98, so I see it a lot. That version also only has one crotch buckle position so kids often fit poorly in it.

I had three of these this week:banginghead: All three were in SUVs with hard plastic hinges in the seat bights. Very annoying, every one of them. Without the awful bases it may have been slightly easier. I wish they would just stop making this seat. It's just about the only seat that people buy around here, or they get them expired from garage sales.
 

Brigala

CPST Instructor
Is that true even of the crappy 40 lb FF weight limit one I see at Costco all the time still? WHY Costco WHY?

As far as I know, of the currently-produced models, even the crappy 40 lb ones, can be used in harness mode in all head rest positions.

However, this is a relatively recent change, especially when you consider the painfully long expiration date on the AOE, so many of the seats we see at clinics still have the limitation.
 

henrietta

Well-known member
I just recently became a certified tech and have been researching seats like crazy - it is just so addicting! I know that the AOE is popular with parents, but is the car seat from Satan with CPS people. I am just wondering what the reasoning is for this intense dislike? Just for the record, I actually don't like the seat, and there was "just something about it" that I didn't like even before becoming interested in CPS. I have read and understand about the booster mode being basically unusable, but what about rf and ff? Have any of the issues been resolved with newer models? I have a lot to learn, and google turned up very little about the safety of the seat that wasn't related to the booster mode. TIA!

I love some things about it and hate other things about it.

The BAD and the UGLY: It's a dangerously poor fit as a booster and doesn't last long. The 40 lbs harnessed version has a top headrest position that is ONLY to be used in booster mode BUT folks didn't read or understand the instructions and would use that position w/the harness (which moves the harness up). This spot isn't reinforced for harness use, so it's dangerous. Installing rear facing can be a real pain and nearly impossible to get tight enough, esp w/seatbelts w/long buckle stalks. It's also hard to get big hands thru the rear facing belt path. Thin, twisty harness straps. Maximum to rear face is 36" and 35 lbs on older models with 40 lbs harness weight limit (which are still out there).

The GOOD: Easy to adjust and use harness and buckles. Lots of leg room for rear facing. Super easy installs forward facing. Minimum to forward face is 34"! A long time ago, the original lasted rear-facing for many kids longer than many other seats besides Britax in the US.

Overall, it's not a bad seat. The newest models, based on their predecessor the AOE, are improved in many ways. Although the rear facing belt paths aren't that much better. If you compare the new ones w/50 lbs harness weight limits to the Guide 65 and the Complete Air, you can see the improvements.
 

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