Question Odyssey or SUV???

mamabearof3 · Apr 29, 2013

We are having the darnedest time deciding on our vehicle situation. We currently have a 6 passenger 06 F150 and a 03 Odyssey. We have 2 kids (almost 8 &9.5) in HBB that will move to lbb in next vehicle, 1 harnessed 5.5yo that will move to HBB in next vehicle and a summer baby that will go in Bsafe or Chicco Keyfit. My body says we are done with 4 kids.

Our current Odyssey is running perfectly fine, but my husband wants more protection between his family and the crazies on the road. He would also rather pay for a new/er vehicle under warranty than pay for fixes on our current vehicle.

We test drove the 13 Odyssey this week and it had everything I wanted (latch/tether/airbags/8 real seats), but AWD. It was acceptable to him safety wise, but would be happy with me sizing up.

Even though we live in St Paul, MN, we had so many times this winter that we were not able to get around or did not feel comfortable driving without 4WD. We had so much snow and the plows were not able to keep up and people drive crazy!

I hate parking the F150. It is so huge, but I love driving it in snow! We feel so much safer. Can I SAFELY put my 5.5yo with plenty of room to grow in her Radian front and center in the F150 with the airbags on? The manual says "it is okay, but the back is so much safer". Will she be hurt by the airbags if she is strapped in properly, but not tethered? It is a lap belt only, no head rest, no tether anchor.

I guess that is the crux of it. If my daughter would be harmed by the airbags on the F150, I would rather drive something else that has 4WD and give up the conveniences of the Odyssey and never use the truck for the family. (We need it for work. And it doesn't make sense to get a better work truck that the family will ride in sometimes instead of the everyday family vehicle.) Would a Pilot for every day be safer considering? What is the next step up from a Pilot?

Thanks for reading this book. I very much value your insight!

Blessings,
Mamabear to 3 and gestater to 1

SafeDad · Apr 29, 2013

mamabearof3 said:
I hate parking the F150. It is so huge, but I love driving it in snow! We feel so much safer. Can I SAFELY put my 5.5yo with plenty of room to grow in her Radian front and center in the F150 with the airbags on? The manual says "it is okay, but the back is so much safer". Will she be hurt by the airbags if she is strapped in properly, but not tethered? It is a lap belt only, no head rest, no tether anchor.

Putting a front facing child in the front seat is generally acceptable if allowed by the vehicle and child restraint owners manual. Kids are always safer in the back seat, with our without the presence of an active airbag. The lack of a top tether would increase any possible issue with an airbag and also any risk due to proximity of the dash and steering wheel. So, "okay, but the back is much safer" is a pretty good summary. There's no way to say for sure exactly how much more risk your daughter would have in the front seat without a tether, but there will be more risk.

I guess that is the crux of it. If my daughter would be harmed by the airbags on the F150, I would rather drive something else that has 4WD and give up the conveniences of the Odyssey and never use the truck for the family. (We need it for work. And it doesn't make sense to get a better work truck that the family will ride in sometimes instead of the everyday family vehicle.) Would a Pilot for every day be safer considering? What is the next step up from a Pilot?

Thanks for reading this book. I very much value your insight!

Blessings,
Mamabear to 3 and gestater to 1

The Pilot is a great choice. The Sienna has an AWD option if you are thinking about a minivan alternative. The Chevrolet Traverse (Acadia/Enclave) is perhaps very slightly larger than the Pilot and also gets great safety ratings.

Some of the newer full-size, 4-door super crew trucks work well as family vehicles, too. The rear seat in some is quite roomy for kids and even works for adults, too. Most don't get quite the crash test ratings of top minivans and SUVs, but are still very safe overall with stability control and side curtain airbags being standard in recent years. For example, the Tundra crew and F-150 super crew get a Top Pick from the IIHS. Both also do well in the NHTSA side impact tests, but both also turn in mediocre results in the frontal test for the female passenger.

canadiangie · Apr 29, 2013

When you ask about what's above the Pilot are you meaning in size or in luxury?

To answer your question about having a child in the front seat, it's not something I would opt to do if I had the means to drive something that allowed for my child to be seated in the back seat.

mamabearof3 · Apr 29, 2013

canadiangie said:
When you ask about what's above the Pilot are you meaning in size or in luxury?

To answer your question about having a child in the front seat, it's not something I would opt to do if I had the means to drive something that allowed for my child to be seated in the back seat.

I was referring to size... So you personally would skip the minivan and purchase a SUV rather than have your 5.5yo ride in the front seat during camping trips and bad weather? The hardest thing for me to give up with my Odyssey is the sliding doors and the cargo space. I just can't drive a Suburban size vehicle and try to park it at the zoo or city parking ramps. KWIM?

To CPSDarren. A family truck is out of the question since that would mean we would have a kid up front 100% of the time. I will take a peak at the other vehicles you suggested.

Thanks!!!

mamabearof3 · Apr 29, 2013

I forgot to say, we need an 8 passenger as we need to fit the cousins in often.

Thanks,
Mamabear

SavsMom · Apr 29, 2013

It sounds like you really like the features of your van and are not comfortable driving a large SUV. In your situation I would look at the Sienna (AWD is an option on it) and the Pilot. Both would fit your needs, both are very nice, reliable and get good safety ratings. Drive them both then choose the vehicle YOU like the best and are most comfortable driving.

canadiangie · Apr 29, 2013

How old are the cousins? What seats?

3rd row Pilot is a snuggly 3 across. Pilot just barely counts as an 8 pass, IMO. It takes a good deal of strategy, sweating, and a few choice words.

SafeDad · Apr 29, 2013

The Traverse comes in an optional 8-passenger trim with a second row bench.

I think the new F-150 supercrew and Tundra crewmax both have front bench options with a lap/shoulder belt in the center? Worth checking perhaps, if 6-passenger would work. That would at least make the front center seat good for an older child in a booster or a teen if the head restraint is adequate. If any have a top tether anchor for that position, it would also be a better choice for a forward facing seat with a 5-point harness.

AK Dad · Apr 30, 2013

canadiangie said:
How old are the cousins? What seats?

3rd row Pilot is a snuggly 3 across. Pilot just barely counts as an 8 pass, IMO. It takes a good deal of strategy, sweating, and a few choice words.

Totally agree with that! I just got done playing with some different options for my 3 preschoolers in our 2011 Pilot and I'm back to 3rd row folded down and 3-across the middle row. I had tried two RF'd in the 3rd row with middle row pushed all the way forward and oldest in center/center. I really liked it ... all except the actual usability in the real world! I'm completely OK with some extra loading pain, but it was just ridiculous climbing into the back and pushing two little ones over the seat back to load every time.

As for your "need" of AWD, do you run dedicated winter tires? I'd take an Odyssey with 4 Blizzaks or X-Ice Xi3's over anything AWD with "all-season" tires. We live 2100' up a mountain in Alaska, so we actually do need AWD and our Nokain Hakkapeliittas on all 4, but I think most people miss out on how good modern dedicated winter tires really are. I promise you that an Odyssey with 4 Blizzaks will be far safer than your F-150 in the snow if it's just on stock tires.

mamabearof3 · May 1, 2013

Thanks for your input all. My nieces and nephews (ages 4.5-10) are all in boosters but one (the 3yo).

Sienna has been ruled out. It does not seem to come in AWD & 8 passenger. And hardly any car seats/boosters fit on the puny 8th seat.

If we were to look at the new/er Pilots, are there any years we should steer towards or away from? Do any of the years have at least 2 latch positions in the 3rd row? (The 2013s only have 1 latch/tether spot in 3rd row. They do have latch/TA for all 3 second row seats.)

Lastly, does anyone know how the 2011+ Odysseys handle in snow? AK Dad got me thinking that maybe there is a significant difference between how an 03 and a new generation Odyssey. The 03 sits so low and can not get through places my sister's 06 Dodge Caravan can. St Paul takes forever to plow.

Thank you for your time!
~Mamabear

nannykates · May 1, 2013

I liked driving an odyssey in snow. It might be worth getting some good gritty tires and making the Odyssey work since it sounds like its really what you want for everything else.

AK Dad · May 1, 2013

mamabearof3 said:
Lastly, does anyone know how the 2011+ Odysseys handle in snow? AK Dad got me thinking that maybe there is a significant difference between how an 03 and a new generation Odyssey. The 03 sits so low and can not get through places my sister's 06 Dodge Caravan can. St Paul takes forever to plow.

The biggest things are going to be the addition of electronic stability controls in the newer vehicles. With older 2wd vehicles, you really only had "1wd" because of the open differential. I won't bore you with the details of why that is (unless you want me to!) but the electronics on the newer vehicles use the brakes in a similar way to how ABS works to control wheel slip and really keep both front tires working for you in a way the older models just physically couldn't.
Also, the stability control makes a huge difference in skid recovery because it can modulate each wheels' brakes independently, which is something even a racecar driver can't do. For instance, when you start to have the tail end slide out (oversteer) it can tap the single outside brake to bring it back in line, and it's all done automatically.
As for tires, I'm a huge fan of dedicated winter tires, and the technology has made huge strides recently, so if you haven't experienced the newest generation you're in for a pleasant surprise! I highly recommend the Bridgestone Blizzak WS-70, but there are lots of great winter tires out there now ... check out http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/index.jsp

mlohry · May 11, 2013

AK Dad said:
The biggest things are going to be the addition of electronic stability controls in the newer vehicles. With older 2wd vehicles, you really only had "1wd" because of the open differential. I won't bore you with the details of why that is (unless you want me to!) but the electronics on the newer vehicles use the brakes in a similar way to how ABS works to control wheel slip and really keep both front tires working for you in a way the older models just physically couldn't.
Also, the stability control makes a huge difference in skid recovery because it can modulate each wheels' brakes independently, which is something even a racecar driver can't do. For instance, when you start to have the tail end slide out (oversteer) it can tap the single outside brake to bring it back in line, and it's all done automatically.
As for tires, I'm a huge fan of dedicated winter tires, and the technology has made huge strides recently, so if you haven't experienced the newest generation you're in for a pleasant surprise! I highly recommend the Bridgestone Blizzak WS-70, but there are lots of great winter tires out there now ... check out http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/index.jsp

I'm going to file this away in my mind. We live in WI hill country and we love houses up on high hills, but I always think we'd need a truck, maybe just some great snow tires...thanks for the awesome info!

bubbaray · May 12, 2013

We have a 2011 F150 and it is great. However, with your number of kids, I would get an AWD Sienna. I used to own an Ody and before that an Acura. DH used to have a Toyota Tacoma and I now have a Toyota RAV4. I love Toyota quality and service, much better than Honda or Acura IME.

emntheboys · May 14, 2013

We got 13" of nasty, slushy snow a week and a half ago. Our Pilot ('08)handled it beautifully. No, seriously, it was so awesome I could cry. My coworker got stuck in our parking lot with his brand new 4wd Silverado and I plowed through like it was nothing. We also have a very steep driveway and the Pilot goes up it- once again, like it's nothing- even when it is covered in ice and snow. It is a great winter vehicle (and I still have OEM tires-shhhh!).

AK Dad · May 14, 2013

emntheboys said:
(and I still have OEM tires-shhhh!).

Tire Police here ma'am - I'm going to have to ask you to step slowly away from the vehicle - be careful you don't slip ...

I don't blame you for Iowa and the occasional storm - you'd be amazed how many people up here where we have snow and ice on the roads for literally 6+months out of the year still just drive around on stock tires. My favorite one is this person I see who has like an $80k Land Rover riding around on summer tires!

One of the biggest problems with AWD and stock tires is that you can actually "brute-force" your way up hills and then have no way to safely get back down - we see it all the time with the hill up to our house. For the sake of the occasional winter storm though I wouldn't expect anyone to have dedicated winter tires.

SafeDad · May 14, 2013

If you don't think you need all out winter tires, you can also opt for all-weather tires. You can run them all year long so you don't have to bother swapping out if that's too big a cost or hassle. They would essentially be in between winter tires and all-season tires in terms of wear and snow/ice performance.

Like winter tires, they'll not only be better than all-season tires for traction but also provide something AWD/4WD can't provide: better braking. Also:

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=237276

bubbaray · May 14, 2013

Another vote for all weathers.

AK Dad · May 14, 2013

bubbaray said:
Another vote for all weathers.

Huh, that's funny - I consider myself a "tire aficionado" of sorts and I'd never heard the term "all-weather" before - from that other thread it sounds like that's something CR came up with on their own I guess? Haven't seen that nomenclature anywhere else that I can recall. My understanding of the "performance winter" category was that it was the best the manufacturers could do because the special soft rubber compounds that they use in tires like the Blizzak and X-Ice can't stand up to the speed rating required for performance tires. So they pretty much put harder (all-season) rubber compound into the mould of the dedicated winter tires and come up with "performance winter."

Any tire, just like product, is the result of a series of compromises - the trick is figuring out which set suits you best!

Those might be a good option for infrequent winter driving conditions, but like Darren mentioned again, lots of people fool themselves into thinking that AWD is a cure-all for winter conditions ... right up until they have to turn or brake!

canadiangie · May 14, 2013

AK Dad said:
Huh, that's funny - I consider myself a "tire aficionado" of sorts and I'd never heard the term "all-weather" before - from that other thread it sounds like that's something CR came up with on their own I guess? Haven't seen that nomenclature anywhere else that I can recall. My understanding of the "performance winter" category was that it was the best the manufacturers could do because the special soft rubber compounds that they use in tires like the Blizzak and X-Ice can't stand up to the speed rating required for performance tires. So they pretty much put harder (all-season) rubber compound into the mould of the dedicated winter tires and come up with "performance winter."

Any tire, just like product, is the result of a series of compromises - the trick is figuring out which set suits you best!

Those might be a good option for infrequent winter driving conditions, but like Darren mentioned again, lots of people fool themselves into thinking that AWD is a cure-all for winter conditions ... right up until they have to turn or brake!

You haven't heard of Nokian all-weather tires?

I have to be honest that I'm not on the winter tire train. Dh has winter and summer tires and it drives me insane having to deal with getting them switched over. I have all-weathers and they're fine. Honestly. I've been driving 8 month long winters since I was 16 years old, all in the climate I live in now, and its... fine. I drive to conditions, which is key no metter where you live, and what you're driving. I don't have any plans to buy dedicated winter tires.

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