What is this? 5 point plus.

Mercuria · Apr 28, 2013

I was looking for stroller accessories, and found this instead:
http://5pointplus.com/no-wonder-chest-clips-on-car-seats-are-illegal/

I don't even know where to start. They miss the point of a chest clip, and create an alternative that pretty much does the opposite. They point out the chest clip as an extra step in case of an emergency, but I feel like it would be much more difficult to get arms in and out with those weird things installed. My eyes are crossing reading this.

Does anybody know anything about the 2011 incident?

hedgefun · Apr 28, 2013

I agree with you! I think they're missing the point of a chest clip. It's not an anti-escape clip!

It looks like their device doesn't have to be buckled/unbuckled each time... Once you've installed it, you just leave it. I think. ETA: Watched the the video clip... Harness straps look loose and the seat was installed... But seemed to wiggle a lot!

mom of six · Apr 29, 2013

looks to me like that thing would pull the shoulder straps off the kids shoulders. Kind of misses the point, huh.

_juune · Apr 29, 2013

mom of six said:
looks to me like that thing would pull the shoulder straps off the kids shoulders. Kind of misses the point, huh.

I think it comes in different sizes.

Somebody on an ERF facebook page I visit had this for her little escape artist -- in some time the child learned to get out of the harness even with the 5point plus

Irishmama · Apr 29, 2013

There was a product someone posted about awhile back to prevent kids from getting out of the harness, and I thought I remembered the general consensus was that it wasn't too terrible? I remember it being yellow. I'll see if I can find it...''

ETA: Found it! http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=228468&highlight=aftermarket+product
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/My-Guardian-Safety-Restraint-Accessory/dp/B004L98I0A"]Amazon.com: My Guardian - Child Safety Restraint Car Seat Accessory Small 20-32 Lbs: Baby[/ame]

What does everyone think?

joyride · Apr 29, 2013

The product was invented for the european market where chest-clips are not allowed.

safeinthecar · Apr 29, 2013

I don't hink it's that bad as long as the back is wide enough that it doesn't pull the harness outwards, but I'd be more comfortable with it if the two sides connected together in the front of a child like a cummerbund instead of wrapping around the harness.

Mercuria · Apr 29, 2013

My annoyance with this isn't so much the product itself as the marketing of the product. It's not an alternative to a chest clip, and I don't see why they have to vilify the chest clip to sell it.

And, somewhat separately, I AM curious about the 2011 case. Do they know for sure it was the chest clip that broke the rib? Not that I don't think a chest clip could do that; just wondering.

joolsplus3 · Apr 29, 2013

Irishmama said:
There was a product someone posted about awhile back to prevent kids from getting out of the harness, and I thought I remembered the general consensus was that it wasn't too terrible? I remember it being yellow. I'll see if I can find it...''

ETA: Found it! http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=228468&highlight=aftermarket+product
Amazon.com: My Guardian - Child Safety Restraint Car Seat Accessory Small 20-32 Lbs: Baby

What does everyone think?

You know, I WAS thinking the yellow one that holds everything in place was ok, but now I don't. I remember back eons ago where we wanted to know if puffy fabric paint dotted on the harness below the chest clip to keep kids from sliding it down would be ok, and Britax ran a crash test for us (They used to do stuff like that

), and even that slight modification to keep the chest clip in place really messed with their crash test numbers.

Irishmama · Apr 30, 2013

Wow, it's amazing such a small change could affect crash performance! Good to keep in mind. Thank you!

_juune · Apr 30, 2013

Actually, what are the proven benefits of the chest clip? Forgive my ignorance

I've never really thought or researched much about this. I'm aware it's meant to be a pre-crash positioner, yet it's another step in buckling the child in meaning yet another chance for misuse.
In Europe we currently don't have them because the standard forbids them, but in the upcoming ISize standard they will be permitted.

joolsplus3 · Apr 30, 2013

_juune said:
Actually, what are the proven benefits of the chest clip? Forgive my ignorance I've never really thought or researched much about this. I'm aware it's meant to be a pre-crash positioner, yet it's another step in buckling the child in meaning yet another chance for misuse.
In Europe we currently don't have them because the standard forbids them, but in the upcoming ISize standard they will be permitted.

I want to say I've heard very recently they improve performance in side impacts, but it was just something I heard in passing, I have no link.
Supposedly they really just keep the harness on the shoulders. Way too much of the time, parents think that is the most important part and ignore the crotch buckle at all, so it makes me wonder just how many injuries and deaths could be literally attributable to chest clips, not from throat/thoracic injuries, but because the seat was useless without the buckle being fastened.

Minnesota · Apr 30, 2013

joolsplus3 said:
I want to say I've heard very recently they improve performance in side impacts, but it was just something I heard in passing, I have no link.
Supposedly they really just keep the harness on the shoulders. Way too much of the time, parents think that is the most important part and ignore the crotch buckle at all, so it makes me wonder just how many injuries and deaths could be literally attributable to chest clips, not from throat/thoracic injuries, but because the seat was useless without the buckle being fastened.

I've wondered about this very thing myself. I've seen several people drive up to car seat clinics with a child buckled in only with the chest clip, not realizing they were missing the boat entirely. Most of them were loving grandparents who were horrified to discover that there was a far more important buckle they had missed. They buckled something and thought they were done!

Athena · Apr 30, 2013

hedgefun said:
ETA: Watched the the video clip... Harness straps look loose and the seat was installed... But seemed to wiggle a lot!

I agree seat appears loose, but the part that baffles me is their claim that kids can escape the chest clip when the seat in their video has none, the reason the kid appears to escape so easily. Also, what about the fact that those straps are all twisted. Overall, huge car seat use FAIL (total misuse shown), making me not take anything about them or their product seriously.

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