Vent A LBB is *not* a safe choice for a 4/5 year old!!

mrosehughes

New member
I know I shouldn't look in cars at daycare dropoff. But my curiosity got the better of me this morning. A woman I know at daycare (we work together in the PTA sometimes) dropped off her 2 and 4/5 year old at the same time I dropped off DS this morning, and on my way out I glanced in her car. She has the 2 year old in a FFing britax; ok, not optimal, but it was tethered. Then I looked for the tether on the 4/5 YOs seat -- not there. Uh oh. So, instead she has him in a LBB! Gah. He is no older than 5 for sure (because there's no K at this school), and he's smaller than my 3.5 YO DS. We (me and the awesome EmmaCPST from this board!) offered a carseat class in the fall, with the hope of reducing things like this. Obviously it didn't work.
 
ADS

lovemy2kidstw

New member
I would be thrilled if I dropped DD off a Pre-K & noticed a LBB for a 4/5 year old! :O. Usually the kids are in nothing, not even a seatbelt & are in the front seat :(
 

LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
Although I personally prefer to see kids in high-back boosters as long as possible, there's not an overwhelming amount of proof they're actually safer than a backless. In fact, I think there's only one study that says they're safer, and others that say they're equal.

The benefits of a high-back include possibly positioning the shoulder belt better, being more comfortable for sleeping, and theoretically offering side-impact protection. The belt positioning isn't always needed (and is sometimes included as a clip with backless boosters anyway). Not all kids sleep in the car (especially on quick trips), and it's possible that headwings don't actually provide side-impact protection as the child's head might be thrown forward of the wings.

Way back, backless boosters were actually intended for smaller kids whose heads would still be supported by the seatback, and high-backs were intended for older, taller kids who would need the head support.

So, I guess the bottom line is that I'm not overly concerned with a child of appropriate booster age, size, and maturity being in any booster s/he meets the minimums for.
 

MomToEliEm

Moderator
A study from 2009 indicated that there were no statistical differences in the injuries between high bacn and no back for the 4-8 age group. I still prefer high backs for younger children, but would be happy with a 4 year old who is above 40 pounds in a no-back booster. If this child is the size of a small 3 year old though, there is a risk of the child submarining under the seatbelt since the booster probably doesn't fit correctly.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/124/5/1281.full
This study reconfirms previous reports that BPB seats reduce the risk for injury in children 4 through 8 years of age by studying a greater percentage of children aged 6 to 8 years than previous studies. After adjustment for potential confounders, children who were aged 4 to 8 and using BPB seats were 45% less likely to sustain injuries than similarly aged children who were using the vehicle seat belt. Among children who were restrained in BPB seats, there was no evidence of a difference in the performance of backless versus high-back boosters. On the basis of these analyses, parents, pediatricians, and health educators should continue to recommend as best practice the use of BPB seats once a child outgrows a harness-based child restraint until he or she is at least 8 years of age.
 

ketchupqueen

CPST and ketchup snob
Staff member
I'm another who would be way happier if every 4/5 year old in a group was in a backless booster than the current situation I see of many of them in nothing (despite our booster law.)
 

mrosehughes

New member
I know this kid, though, and there's no way he's mature enough to be boostered. I just hate the rush to have kids in 'big kid seats'.

But, yes, I suppose it's better than him being unrestrained, or sitting in the front o.o

Although I personally prefer to see kids in high-back boosters as long as possible, there's not an overwhelming amount of proof they're actually safer than a backless. In fact, I think there's only one study that says they're safer, and others that say they're equal.

The benefits of a high-back include possibly positioning the shoulder belt better, being more comfortable for sleeping, and theoretically offering side-impact protection. The belt positioning isn't always needed (and is sometimes included as a clip with backless boosters anyway). Not all kids sleep in the car (especially on quick trips), and it's possible that headwings don't actually provide side-impact protection as the child's head might be thrown forward of the wings.

Way back, backless boosters were actually intended for smaller kids whose heads would still be supported by the seatback, and high-backs were intended for older, taller kids who would need the head support.

So, I guess the bottom line is that I'm not overly concerned with a child of appropriate booster age, size, and maturity being in any booster s/he meets the minimums for.
 

mrosehughes

New member
Ok, DS is in no way a 'small' 3YO :p He's the size of an average 4 YO (so, this kid is average).

A study from 2009 indicated that there were no statistical differences in the injuries between high bacn and no back for the 4-8 age group. I still prefer high backs for younger children, but would be happy with a 4 year old who is above 40 pounds in a no-back booster. If this child is the size of a small 3 year old though, there is a risk of the child submarining under the seatbelt since the booster probably doesn't fit correctly.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/124/5/1281.full
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
I know this kid, though, and there's no way he's mature enough to be boostered. I just hate the rush to have kids in 'big kid seats'.

Exactly-

When my youngest was 4, he was way to squirmy to be in a booster. Probably still is! A 5-point harness is possibly a safer option for a lot of 4-year olds, depending on their maturity.

Also consider that for a lot of parents who are too eager to move their kids to a booster before they are ready, it may not be a such a bad choice because it's quite possible their 5-point harness seat would not have been installed or used correctly.

http://carseatblog.com/8243/to-backless-or-not-to-backless-that-is-the-question/
 

Kac

Ambassador - CPS Technician
It may not be the safEST, but if it is used correctly, it's still safe. :)
 

beetlemama

New member
Having seen what the few harnessed riders are using at DDs preschool (she's almost 4) I might actually prefer a booster since the chance of user error is so much lower. I think my nearly 4 year old is the only one in her class using a proper harness. Everyone else is either boostered or using one that's outgrown (as in the shell not even at the *bottom* of their ears) or wearing a heavy coat with completely loose straps and who knows if it's installed correctly. Since many of the kids in the class are 4 I would actually prefer to see them in a booster than an outgrown/poorly used harnessed seat.

I discovered last week that SIL (who RFed both kids to the limit of a radian, so she's aware of car safety) has her seats installed wrong. Infuriatingly I discovered it when I went to remove safe stop from the seat she installed in MILs car for our two to share, which my daughter rode in frequently while I was on bedrest :mad:. It had a good 3 inches slack on the latch path. And this is from someone who knows enough to RF as long as possible. I also found out that she lets her kids wear puffy coats after my MIL and 3.5 year old had a fight because my daughter wouldn't keep her coat in and MIL didn't know why (now that she knows she won't keep their coat on). Apparently even though SIL knows some amount of carseat stuff, I shouldn't have assumed even an intelligent person who has looked into a lot knows everything.

I'll also say that some 4 year olds do ride well in a booster. Due to circumstances at the time my 5.5 year old went to a booster right at 4. She had outgrown her radian for height and a frontier would not safely install in our only car (beetle, it was hitting the curved side beams) so we had no option. She did beautifully and has never for a second given me cause to question the move. My kids may be unusual, though. The older two are both calm, mellow car riders who I suspect did not *need* the harness to restrain them even at 3 (not that I would ever test it that young or on a 3 year old's skeleton!). Hopefully this kid is a great car rider!
 

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