Just called Recaro re: RF tether and RF height

ZephyrBlue · Sep 5, 2007

I spoke with Gayle

. She said that they do allow the RF tether to be attached to a point in the vehicle that is bolted to the vehicle frame, like Britax does. She did say that they are not providing "that extra strap like Britax because we don't think it's safe". Uh, okay.

She didn't have any earthly idea what I was talking about re: the maxium height RF- whether it has to be 34", or at least 1" below the top of the CR shell. She's going to check w/the Child Restraint Engineer and call me back tomorrow afternoon- they are all going to a show in the morning and nobody will be available to answer questions. She did sound very surprised when I told her that my DS was 2.5 and that I wanted to continue to RF him. She said, "He's how old? 2.5? And you want him to ride rear facing??" I said, "Yes, that's one of the best features of the new Recaro convertibles- they allow a child to RF up to 35lbs" "Oh, okay. I'll check on that and call you tomorrow afternoon"

all together, LOL

arly1983 · Sep 5, 2007

Yep, I often have that feeling after talking to a CSR rep.....so which vihicles already have the RFIng tether anchor?

Cindy&Connor · Sep 5, 2007

If she is going to be the only one answering questions she really needs to get it together. She doesn't sound like she has a clue what she's talking about, especially in regards to the rear facing tether.

southpawboston · Sep 5, 2007

just buy a top tether anchor and bolt it to an existing front seat frame bolt... instant RF tether point that's bolted to the car.

stayinhomewithmy6 · Sep 5, 2007

arly1983 said:
Yep, I often have that feeling after talking to a CSR rep.....so which vihicles already have the RFIng tether anchor?

Well, my '96 Windstar does. I'm SO ready to get a new van, but I really will miss those little hooks.

But, what is that about the D-ring type straps being un-safe? How? Without them, people will be looping the tether strap around something and hooking it to itself, which seems less safe than a D-ring.

stayinhomewithmy6 · Sep 5, 2007

southpawboston said:
just buy a top tether anchor and bolt it to an existing front seat frame bolt... instant RF tether point that's bolted to the car.

Just curious - where would you just buy a top tether anchor to bolt into your car? Would you get it from your vehicle's dealer? Would it matter if it specifically goes with your vehicle?

joolsplus3 · Sep 5, 2007

arly1983 said:
Yep, I often have that feeling after talking to a CSR rep.....so which vihicles already have the RFIng tether anchor?

Volvo

Those genius Swedes actually care about keeping children safest in all directions

.

Uh...don't go bolting tether anchors to your car unless you know you aren't puncturing your exhaust system (or whatever other things are down there...), ok?

Defrost · Sep 5, 2007

SPB was talking about adding a tether anchor to an existing bolt - one attaching a vehicle seat to the frame, for example.

As for the call, I'm really not impressed. "Not providing that extra strap" because they don't "think" it's safe? So... did "that extra strap" fail in their crash tests? Or did they find that their tether failed, and they're not providing the strap because RF tethering isn't safe with their seats? Or did they decide that RF tethering with any seat isn't safe and not bother crash-testing it?

CDNTech · Sep 5, 2007

:yeahthat: Unless it specifically allows RF tethering IN THE MANUAL, it's not happening for me.

tl01 · Sep 5, 2007

I have cargo anchors that I'm using as a tether anchor for my Boulevard b/c I was told I could use them as a tether anchor here. I wonder if I can use that as the anchor for a Como? I asked Mercedes if it is a tether anchor specifically and they said no.

Gypsy · Sep 6, 2007

tl01 said:
I have cargo anchors that I'm using as a tether anchor for my Boulevard b/c I was told I could use them as a tether anchor here. I wonder if I can use that as the anchor for a Como? I asked Mercedes if it is a tether anchor specifically and they said no.

Who told you that?

MsFacetious · Sep 6, 2007

Chevy also has RF tether. I think it's only the SUV's and trucks though not the vans. I believe it is like 2001 - 2006... Jen can correct me if I'm wrong.

joolsplus3 · Sep 6, 2007

tl01 said:
I have cargo anchors that I'm using as a tether anchor for my Boulevard b/c I was told I could use them as a tether anchor here. I wonder if I can use that as the anchor for a Como? I asked Mercedes if it is a tether anchor specifically and they said no.

Oh yeah, I've seen those...I've used those... They probably meant no for FF, which is a much, much greater force than RF...?

laurenrachey · Sep 6, 2007

So was there any word on when they will get the manual updated? IF Gayle is correct in saying that RF tether has been tested and is allowed?

ZephyrBlue · Sep 6, 2007

When Gayle calls back, I'm going to ask her for something in writing from Recaro, stating that it's okay to use the tether RF, and depending on what they say re: the max. RF height, something on that, as well.

southpawboston · Sep 6, 2007

stayinhomewithmy3 said:
Just curious - where would you just buy a top tether anchor to bolt into your car? Would you get it from your vehicle's dealer? Would it matter if it specifically goes with your vehicle?

i would just buy a replacement top tether from the dealer. it doesn't even have to be for my car specifically, as they're all similar. as long as the bolt hole is large enough on the TA, it can be bolted down using the front seat's existing bolt hardware, which is very high strength. the TA would not be centered with the seat, but at least you now have a "hook" which bypasses the need for a D-loop.

on a side note, i thought it was okay to tether a top tether strap to an existing lap/shoulder belt when FFing in the absense of a top tether anchor (i.e., tethering a second row carseat to a third row shoulder belt). i thought i read that somewhere here? if that's true, than why couldn't you just loop the top tether strap around something and hook it onto itself when RFing? wouldn't that be essentially the same thing?

singingpond · Sep 6, 2007

southpawboston said:
i would just buy a replacement top tether from the dealer. it doesn't even have to be for my car specifically, as they're all similar. as long as the bolt hole is large enough on the TA, it can be bolted down using the front seat's existing bolt hardware, which is very high strength. the TA would not be centered with the seat, but at least you now have a "hook" which bypasses the need for a D-loop.

I would suggest the proviso that you would want to be sure the bolt threads are still fully engaged after you add the extra thickness of the tether anchor. Also, are there specified torques for the seat bolt hardware? If so, one should look up those numbers, and use a torque wrench. I wonder if the bolts wouldn't be thicker, though, than those typically used for tether anchors? Since the seat bolts have to be rated for much higher loads potentially? Guess I may take a look at some of the shop manuals we have lying around for our various vehicles.

It would be nice to know for sure whether Recaro actually tested these seats with a rear tether -- they seem awfully wishy-washy in their answers on the rear tether question.

Katrin

southpawboston · Sep 6, 2007

in my experience, seat anchor bolts are always high-strength steel (you can tell from the stampings on the head of the bolt), and they are about the same size (width) as tether anchor bolts.

of course you would want to make sure that the bolt is still fully threaded to its weld nut on the car floor. also in my experience, the bolts tend to be quite long, at least a centimeter or two longer than needed to fully thread. the tether anchor metal is usually no more than 0.3-0.4 cm thick, so that shouldn't be a problem. but yes, proviso noted.

torques are usually specified in the shop manual of the car. however, i rarely find those are adhered to. 99% of mechanics out there who pull a seat out of the car are going to put the bolts back in "tight" instead of "properly" torqued. torque also becomes irrelevant if the bolt and nut threads are not perfectly clean and smooth (essentially "new"). once there is any corrosion or gunk on the surface, torque readings become irrelevant because of the differences in friction.

EDIT: also keep in mind that most seats are secured by four bolts, whereas the tether anchor has only the one, which may explain why the bolts may not be that large.

i just checked my shop manual for the mazda and the torque specification for the front seat bolts is 26-40 lb-ft. that's a pretty big range (which correlates with "tight" but not "too tight" in my own mental book

) the specification for the top tether is only 20 lb-ft.

tl01 · Sep 6, 2007

Gypsy said:
Who told you that?

It was someone on here and the tech who installed it. I'll try to find the post.

southpawboston · Sep 6, 2007

i read somewhere here also that certain vehicle models specify the cargo hold-downs as the tether anchors.

EDIT:

ah, here it was... it was for a ford explorer:

http://car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=15653&highlight=cargo+down+tether+same

Just called Recaro re: RF tether and RF height

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