Weight limit top tether????

Wreckgoddess · Jan 9, 2013

Another tech and I have a disagreement.

She says there is a weight limit of 40-45 lbs on top tethers. I have never heard this. I know of course about the weight limit on LOWER anchors per vehicle manufacturers. But does this apply to the top tether as well??

Please answer, techs!!!!

Phineasmama · Jan 9, 2013

I am not a tech but I believe Safe Kids defers to the vehicle manufacturer LATCH limits for the top tether as well.

carseatcoach · Jan 9, 2013

Yes, technically, there are limits on top tethers, but apparently they are becoming more generous.

Kegracin · Jan 9, 2013

In the tech forum you will find lots of discussion about top tethers and weight limits. Here is one http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=232736&highlight=tethers there are other threads if you do a search.

Wreckgoddess · Jan 9, 2013

Okay, I found the answer to my question.
Yes, some car manufacturers have limits to the top tether.

However- there has been no known cases of the top tether ever failing on a child restraint that is a five point harness, higher weight limit seat, that is tethered. And many of these seats REQUIRE top tether use even after 40 lbs of course.

So the general concensus, is that one should go ahead and tether. Because it can significantly reduce the head excursion and prevent serious injury. Even if that top tether should fail, it has already done its job.. the childs head will have moved less upon impact before the tether gives out.

So, Tether!!!!

She and I were happy we were both kind of right : )

"Tether Anchors: Again, there is no agreement between vehicle and child safety seat manufacturers as to the weight limit for tether anchors. Certain vehicle manufacturers have stated a tether anchor weight limit; to find out check you vehicle owner's manual. In cases where the vehicle owner's manual does not specify a maximum tether weight limit, assume the upper limit is 40 pounds.

Following this 40 pound limit is very problematic, though, since many child safety seats sold specifically for children over 40 pounds REQUIRE the use of a tether. Many in the child passenger safety field believe that the risks of NOT using the tether FAR OUTWEIGH the risks of the tether not holding in a crash. Many of us would recommend using the tether no matter how much the child weighs.

"

Baylor · Jan 9, 2013

Wreckgoddess said:
Okay, I found the answer to my question.
Yes, some car manufacturers have limits to the top tether.

However- there has been no known cases of the top tether ever failing on a child restraint that is a five point harness, higher weight limit seat, that is tethered. And many of these seats REQUIRE top tether use even after 40 lbs of course.

So the general concensus, is that one should go ahead and tether. Because it can significantly reduce the head excursion and prevent serious injury. Even if that top tether should fail, it has already done its job.. the childs head will have moved less upon impact before the tether gives out.

So, Tether!!!!

She and I were happy we were both kind of right : )

That bbm.. To me after all I have learned here and read is why I will always top tether.

carseatcoach · Jan 9, 2013

I would, and did, tether my own kid over the limit. That doesn't change the fact that there IS a limit, and IMO, as techs, we're responsible for telling the parents about the limits as well as the reasons many disregard those limits, and letting the parents make the hard choice. (Again IMO), we should never be in the position of telling parents that they *should* disregard stated limits.

jacqui276 · Jan 9, 2013

carseatcoach said:
I would, and did, tether my own kid over the limit. That doesn't change the fact that there IS a limit, and IMO, as techs, we're responsible for telling the parents about the limits as well as the reasons many disregard those limits, and letting the parents make the hard choice. (Again IMO), we should never be in the position of telling parents that they *should* disregard stated limits.

What about in Canada where top tethering is required? Regardless of the limits imposed by the vehicle manufacturers, all of our ffing car seats require top tethering so aren't the techs here essentially saying to disregard stated limits? I can't imagine them suggesting that it is a parental decision when legally it is required. Or do the vehicles here have to have tether anchors that can hold at least 65lbs, since that is the heaviest that our ffing seats go?

carseatcoach · Jan 9, 2013

I don't know for sure what I'd do if I were in Canada, and I don't know about Canadian laws/specs. I do know that I personally am comfortable top-tethering over the limit. I am not comfortable instructing parents to do so. I'll help them do it if they decide they want to, but it has to be their decision, not mine. I suppose if I was in Canada, I'd probably tell them a similar thing: their vehicle is technically incompatible with their carseat and *they* have to make the choice what to do about it.

rverrone11 · Jan 9, 2013

Where do I find what the top tether limit is in my cars? I don't recall seeing anything about it in my manuals (2001 Jetta and 2005 Jeep Liberty).

tiggercat · Jan 9, 2013

jacqui276 said:
What about in Canada where top tethering is required? Regardless of the limits imposed by the vehicle manufacturers, all of our ffing car seats require top tethering so aren't the techs here essentially saying to disregard stated limits? I can't imagine them suggesting that it is a parental decision when legally it is required. Or do the vehicles here have to have tether anchors that can hold at least 65lbs, since that is the heaviest that our ffing seats go?

Technically it would be an incompatibility if the vehicle manufacturer stated say a 40lb TA limit and you had a >40lb child in a 5pt restraint. Your "legal" options would be to booster, or I suppose to purchase a new vehicle, because we can't use a FF 5pt without the tether.
I have no qualms about tethering to 65lb (I am not sure how I feel about higher than that, especially with a very heavy seat), but really it rarely comes up in my area.

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Lemonade · Jan 26, 2013

This came up at my check today. Senior checker was telling them to take the TT off when kid hits 40# (GN in a newer highlander). Kid was 37# at 3 yrs so we did a belt install so it wouldn't have to be switched soon. I asked her about it on the side and she said it's 40# on TT too because it's part ofthe latch system. Then we checked the GN manual and her latch manual and left it because no stated limits, or a defer to CR manufacturer. I said to senior checker that my understanding was that even if it fails, it will have done it's job first. She said the concern was that the hook would fly up if it came unattached or the anchor broke, at hit the child or someone else in the head. (What she said was more like "but what does it hit if it fails")

So, I've had been telling people to use the TT with seatbelt. But now I guess I should explain to people that it's something that's a gray area and give them the facts and the info of what is law in canada and let them decide.

Brigala · Jan 27, 2013

jacqui276 said:
What about in Canada where top tethering is required? Regardless of the limits imposed by the vehicle manufacturers, all of our ffing car seats require top tethering so aren't the techs here essentially saying to disregard stated limits? I can't imagine them suggesting that it is a parental decision when legally it is required. Or do the vehicles here have to have tether anchors that can hold at least 65lbs, since that is the heaviest that our ffing seats go?

If I understand correctly, Canadian techs are not certified by SafeKids, right?

SafeKids has made it VERY clear that they expect us all to quote the party line of "follow the manufacturer's instructions at all costs even if it's stupid" and has gone so far as to specify that this is not a "tough choice" to be left to the parents.

I don't think Canadian techs have that problem. Your government has already kind of taken care of it by making it the law that the TT be used.

I am not comfortable disregarding a perfectly good TT with a stupid weight limit on it just because of a purely theoretical danger that it could fail badly enough to come all the way out and hit someone, which has never ever ever actually happened. The way I handle it is that if I feel I must mention the weight limit on the Top Tether at all (a child near or over the weight limit for that vehicle) I explain the issue and tell the parent that the "right" answer is to have a high-weight top tether installed. I give them the website for ez-on pro and the part number (#100H) and tell them how much it costs for the part, and to check with their mechanic for pricing, and offer to email them the LATCH addendum that discusses aftermarket tether anchors. I also tell them that there have been no known instances of injuries ever being caused by using a factory TT past its weight limit but there is plenty of data that it reduces the risk of injury. In some cases I may even admit that I use the factory TTs in my car for a child who's way beyond the 40 lb limit. I seriously doubt any parent has ever then gone away and gone through the trouble of doing an aftermarket anchor when they have a factory anchor already there; certainly none of them have ever taken me up on the offer to email the addendum.

The only place where it really comes into play for me is in situations where a car doesn't already have a TT and needs a retrofit. A single Honda retrofit anchor costs almost as much as a pair of EZ-On anchors. I generally recommend people go with the EZ-On instead of the factory retrofit if they're expecting to use it past the vehicle's stated weight limits.

LISmama810 · Jan 27, 2013

Brigala said:
If I understand correctly, Canadian techs are not certified by SafeKids, right?

SafeKids has made it VERY clear that they expect us all to quote the party line of "follow the manufacturer's instructions at all costs even if it's stupid" and has gone so far as to specify that this is not a "tough choice" to be left to the parents.

I don't think Canadian techs have that problem. Your government has already kind of taken care of it by making it the law that the TT be used.

Right. SafeKids' statements have absolutely no bearing on Canadian techs (or parents). However, if vehicle manufactures' weight limits apply in Canada, too (not sure whether that's been clarified or not), then the repercussions in Canada will likely be huge. Their certifying body/bodies and/or government will/should be the ones to deal with that.

What'll be really interesting is if vehicle manufacturers say the limits don't apply in Canada.

tiggercat · Jan 27, 2013

Brigala said:
If I understand correctly, Canadian techs are not certified by SafeKids, right?

SafeKids has made it VERY clear that they expect us all to quote the party line of "follow the manufacturer's instructions at all costs even if it's stupid" and has gone so far as to specify that this is not a "tough choice" to be left to the parents.

I don't think Canadian techs have that problem. Your government has already kind of taken care of it by making it the law that the TT be used.

I am not comfortable disregarding a perfectly good TT with a stupid weight limit on it just because of a purely theoretical danger that it could fail badly enough to come all the way out and hit someone, which has never ever ever actually happened. The way I handle it is that if I feel I must mention the weight limit on the Top Tether at all (a child near or over the weight limit for that vehicle) I explain the issue and tell the parent that the "right" answer is to have a high-weight top tether installed. I give them the website for ez-on pro and the part number (#100H) and tell them how much it costs for the part, and to check with their mechanic for pricing, and offer to email them the LATCH addendum that discusses aftermarket tether anchors. I also tell them that there have been no known instances of injuries ever being caused by using a factory TT past its weight limit but there is plenty of data that it reduces the risk of injury. In some cases I may even admit that I use the factory TTs in my car for a child who's way beyond the 40 lb limit. I seriously doubt any parent has ever then gone away and gone through the trouble of doing an aftermarket anchor when they have a factory anchor already there; certainly none of them have ever taken me up on the offer to email the addendum.

The only place where it really comes into play for me is in situations where a car doesn't already have a TT and needs a retrofit. A single Honda retrofit anchor costs almost as much as a pair of EZ-On anchors. I generally recommend people go with the EZ-On instead of the factory retrofit if they're expecting to use it past the vehicle's stated weight limits.

Canadian CRST certification is administered by the CPSAC (child passenger safety association of Canada).
We do legally require all FF child restraints to be installed with the top tether, but there is no requirement to have the vehicle top tethers approved to that weight. The manufacturer is free to set it's own limits. (Which I think it stupid, btw, they should be legally mandated to rate top tethers to 65lbs).

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bubbaray · Jan 27, 2013

Just to address the Canadian issue for anyone reading and looking for Canadian specific advice.

TTs must be used with any FFg harnessed seat install, whether installed via seatbelts or UAS. There is no "grey" area here.

We do not technically have LATCH here. We have UAS, which is the lower anchors. I would never tell a parent that their vehicle is incompatible with a restraint for reasons related to Safekids LATCH limit rules.

JMHO

tiggercat · Jan 27, 2013

bubbaray said:
Just to address the Canadian issue for anyone reading and looking for Canadian specific advice.

TTs must be used with any FFg harnessed seat install, whether installed via seatbelts or UAS. There is no "grey" area here.

We do not technically have LATCH here. We have UAS, which is the lower anchors. I would never tell a parent that their vehicle is incompatible with a restraint for reasons related to Safekids LATCH limit rules.

JMHO

If the manufacturer of the vehicle states not to use the tether anchor above 40lb, then yes we so have a problem.

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Weight limit top tether????

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