Cocoon, Rebound or Racoon.

Byron

New member
So, I am trying to understand the 2012 anti-rebound regulations from Transport Canada. I have read all the threds on the site, looked at the explanations and the schematic diagram, read both the TC and HC websites and it is still as clear as mud.:confused: I am starting to drive my husband crazy with my obsesive paranoia about understanding this and getting the child restaints right.:eek: (I only have a couple of weeks left to sort this out before No3 comes along)

So I am really hoping someone here can explain it in laymans terms so I can ensure I have my childrens seats in correctly.

From what I understand in a forward impact collistion there is the intial movement towards the frount of the car. This is why RF child restaints are so important as the back shell protects the child from being thrown towards the frount of the car.

Then there is the secondary movement towards the rear of the car. THIS is where i get confused about what is supposed to happen with a rear facing child restaint.

Is it.........

Option 1. - Cocoon.
The child restraint moves towards the rear of the car tips "forward" and hits the back of the car seat to "cocoon" the child in the child restraint shell

Option 2. - No rebound
The child restraint is rock solid and does not move with the backwards motion. (obviously the child will move within the restraint belts)

Option 3. RaCoon (I suppose this should be Re-coon, but being in Canada, i thought Racoons would be a better description - lol)
Some combination of option 1 and 2. i.e. there is a some movement of the child restraint shell towards the rear of the car, but it does not hit the back of the car seat.

Thanks in advance for helping me with this. (and thanks from my husband :) )
 
ADS

tiggercat

New member
You've got the general idea. There are different schools of thought on this, and hopefully Trudy will chime in ;)

Cacoon is what happens without any form of rebound control (RF tethering, anti rebound bar, anti rebound bolsters). It's what was observed way back when and considered normal on RF child seats. In some circumstances cacooning may have a protective effect of shielding the infant from intrusion or debris, but generally it is just an explanation of what happens in the dynamics of a crash. The dummy may or may not impact the vehicle seat or other vehicle structures.

Fully stopping this motion (allowing no movement of the child restraint at all) may be dangerous in some circumstances, because while the amount of movement and force is less than the original impact, there can be neck and chest loading. This is one argument against the use of tight RF tethers.

Rebound control or management is a way to lessening the rebound movement without "jerking to a stop". The new regulations have a vertical plane which the seats cannot rebound through, which has sparked development of anti-rebound technology in the form of antirebound bars, bolsters on the front edge of the seats, handles in "up" or antirebound positions, base designs, etc. These reduce (but do not entirely eliminate) the rebound movement of the seat which reduce the risk of the child impacting vehicle structures, provide some protection in SIP, without increasing neck and chest loads as much as if you completely eliminated to movement altogether.

So what was the question again? ;) are you asking if your pre-2012 infant seat is safe to use?

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Byron

New member
Thanks for the detailed response tiggercat. Much apreciated.

My inital issue is with my 2012 Radian XRT. It is in the rear facing position. I have always used a teather, but with the new rebound controlls I am thinking I would be better without it. However my problem is that the seat seams to move excessivley. If I push with one hand I can easily lift the back of the seat of the car seat for a number of inch's. It worries me that in a crash the seat will flip over completly. i.e. no rebound control.

Has anyone else had this problem, and if so what is aceptable up and down movement.
 

Keeanh

Well-known member
Per Diono, ALL Radians (Pre & post-2012 regs) pass current Canadian rebound standards without the tether.

It's fine that you can lift it a few inches. Can you easily slam the part of the seat where the child's head would be into the back of your vehicle seat? That might concern me because it would mean your seat probably wasn't installed tightly enough. But just rebounding into a vertical position is allowing the seat to absorb energy rather than transferring it to the child.
 

Byron

New member
Sorry my second issues is with my 2011 Peg-Pergo infant seat.

Where exactly do I put the handle. I used to put it at the top, but now undrtstand for the rebound I need to place at the base.

I found this from Transport Canada, but it is 2010, obviously before 2012, and the manual on line from Peg-Perego is dated 2009! (yes I have lost mine - naughty girl :eek: )
 

tiggercat

New member
Byron said:
Sorry my second issues is with my 2011 Peg-Pergo infant seat.

Where exactly do I put the handle. I used to put it at the top, but now undrtstand for the rebound I need to place at the base.

I found this from Transport Canada, but it is 2010, obviously before 2012, and the manual on line from Peg-Perego is dated 2009! (yes I have lost mine - naughty girl :eek: )

There should be a sticker on the side of the handle with approved handle locations. There was indeed a public notice about older pegs, and I believe they are all required to be in the antirebound (I.e above baby's feet) position. If yours is a 2011, the label should be correct and indicated the ARB position for the handle.

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tiggercat

New member
Byron said:
Thanks for the detailed response tiggercat. Much apreciated.

My inital issue is with my 2012 Radian XRT. It is in the rear facing position. I have always used a teather, but with the new rebound controlls I am thinking I would be better without it. However my problem is that the seat seams to move excessivley. If I push with one hand I can easily lift the back of the seat of the car seat for a number of inch's. It worries me that in a crash the seat will flip over completly. i.e. no rebound control.

Has anyone else had this problem, and if so what is aceptable up and down movement.

Why do the new standards make you feel that you would be better without the RF tether? How you feel about that is a whole other issue (that I am happy to discuss but that is not particularly clear cut).
Ultimately, you need that seat to move less than an inch when you pull side to side and forward and back at the belt path. Movement at the top (head) of the seat is not quantifiable nor is it meaningful.

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Byron

New member
Tigger Cat
I was obsesed with not have the seats move at all (regular car seats don't move), plus I did not like the idea of the seat cocooning the passinger incase this also resulted in some head injury / suffication. Also everyone in hear talks about getting a "rock solid" fit. So I always installed my seats so they did NOT move at all.

However I also used to worry about chest and neck loading in the event of a crash during the 2nd motion of infants and younget children.

So I am happy now that there is the midway point (if you can get the seats fitted correctly!)

The Radian No 1 is in correctly, and does not move past the vertical with two hands.

Now I just have to work out the Peg-Perego. The pictures on the side (thanks for that info :eek: ) show the handle at the top of the shell or rotated downward towards the child's toes so that it touches the vehicle seat ( About 1/3-1/4 of the way up, but not at the very bottom of the bucket. Rather like the on here - 3rd set of photos (sorry can't get an image in). Which is great as I can get it in the car.

However (theres always one of those - lol) a Car Seat Tech told me (or how I understtod) that the handle as to be at the base i.e. toes between the bucket and the car seat - which never made sense to me as it would be damn hard to get in or out.

Should I just og on the diagram on the seat?

Thanks for all the time you have spent on my questions

H.
 

tiggercat

New member
Byron said:
Tigger Cat
I was obsesed with not have the seats move at all (regular car seats don't move), plus I did not like the idea of the seat cocooning the passinger incase this also resulted in some head injury / suffication. Also everyone in hear talks about getting a "rock solid" fit. So I always installed my seats so they did NOT move at all.

However I also used to worry about chest and neck loading in the event of a crash during the 2nd motion of infants and younget children.

So I am happy now that there is the midway point (if you can get the seats fitted correctly!)

The Radian No 1 is in correctly, and does not move past the vertical with two hands.

Now I just have to work out the Peg-Perego. The pictures on the side (thanks for that info :eek: ) show the handle at the top of the shell or rotated downward towards the child's toes so that it touches the vehicle seat ( About 1/3-1/4 of the way up, but not at the very bottom of the bucket. Rather like the on here - 3rd set of photos (sorry can't get an image in). Which is great as I can get it in the car.

However (theres always one of those - lol) a Car Seat Tech told me (or how I understtod) that the handle as to be at the base i.e. toes between the bucket and the car seat - which never made sense to me as it would be damn hard to get in or out.

Should I just og on the diagram on the seat?

Thanks for all the time you have spent on my questions

H.

I think I'll snap a picture for you, if I have a peg in my basement... The handle should be up against the vehicle seat. It can be difficult to get in and out in some vehicles.

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tiggercat

New member
Here is the handle in the correct position for vehicle travel.
Excuse my basement :p edited to add, the sticker is incorrect on the handle of this one, it is an older seat covered under the recall period and since it is a demo seat I never bothered to ask for a new sticker.

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Last edited:

Keeanh

Well-known member
Here is the handle in the correct position for vehicle travel.
Excuse my basement :p edited to add, the sticker is incorrect on the handle of this one, it is an older seat covered under the recall period and since it is a demo seat I never bothered to ask for a new sticker.

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Your "car" has some sweet upholstery ;) LOL
 

tiggercat

New member
Keeanh said:
Your "car" has some sweet upholstery ;) LOL

I put the black seat on the black futon and could see nothing but black blur. That's actually my favourite blanket ;)

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