Shipping vs Checking

Baylor

Baylor

New member
I wonder how much different it is for the car seat when shipped vs checked?

I was discussing this with a family member and when I said that it is really not recommended to check a seat on an airplane, Immediately she said, " But they are shipped and who knows what happens to them then.."
I can't argue with that. Most seats don't come with packaging. They are just in a box with some plastic.

I would buy an open box seat. I have bought a seat that had labels but no box.

Is there substantial data that one is worse than the other, other than some anecdotal stories about people and their experience?

How much impact means its not usable?

Are their standards for this?

Just trying to come up with good answers and information that I can stand behind for myself and others.
TIA!
 
ADS
Brianna

Brianna

New member
The box the seats come in are snug to the seat and don't allow for much, if any, movement of the seat in the container. The box would also help absorb some of the force on the seat during shipping.

In an airplane situation, the seat is free to bounce of any luggage surrounding it, with the luggage coming in direct contact with the seat.
 
jeminijad

jeminijad

New member
Baylor, personally I feel that this is one of the weakest points in CPS "doctrine."

It is all on a continuum. A seat dropped from 15 feet above directly onto the concrete tarmac looks terrible, and I understand that it is a powerful anecdote. I'm not convinced that it happens nearly as often as you'd think from reading here, or that it necessarily compromises the ability of the harness to contain the kid in the shell.

In the middle of the scale, you have a third party dockworker tossing a boxed seat off the back of the truck roughly. Pretty sure most of us here have owned a seat that this has happened to (the BRU worker probably won't toss it like a sack of potatoes, but if you know anything about yard management, consolidation or logistics other folks can handle cartons in between.)

Then there is the ideal scenario that I think a lot of people here are imagining: a cautious worker at the manufacturing facility tucks it into an ideally sized, heavy duty carton, and then the lumpers are gentle with it while loading it onto a container, and then it isn't dropped or thrown at any point during the chain until it reaches the UPS truck, store shelf etc.

Sure the boxes absorb some force, but what the seat actually undergoes before reaching you will vary drastically.

I don't tell people to throw their seats away if they've ever checked them because I believe it is alarmist and causes as many eye rolls as safer kids. I do recommend that they try not to check seats, or at least gate check them, because why not cut out an opportunity for damage.

I guess that isn't really what you were looking for, Baylor! Just my thoughts.
 
Carrie_R

Carrie_R

Ambassador - CPS Technician
I know we had a family post on here maybe a year ago with a story, including photos, of their Radian. It was checked in a carseat bag and the results were not pretty.

I think, for me, the difference is that the boxes the seats are shipped in are designed/chosen/endorsed by the mfg for that purpose. It's akin to saying, "your Keyfit headrest is fine, but this walmart one is not," because one has been tested by the mfg and the other hasn't.

Plus, most people only protect their checked seats with the flimsy plastic bags provided by the airline, and yeah... Those don't do anything to protect from tarmac impacts.
 
Mags462

Mags462

New member
I have never flown with children - but why not just put the seat IN a box and check it? :confused: I thought you could check boxes as long as they fit were the correct dimensions - then its like the seat is being shipped via the airlines ;)

As for my personal opinion - if i DID have to travel with a seat and was not using it on the aircraft i would travel with a "throw away" seat (eg one that was inexpensive like a scenera or maestro) just in case it was badly damaged some how..... if it comes out unharmed, great, but if it ends up beaten then I'm only out $40-$60 ya know?
 
Brianna

Brianna

New member
Mags462 said:
I have never flown with children - but why not just put the seat IN a box and check it? :confused: I thought you could check boxes as long as they fit were the correct dimensions - then its like the seat is being shipped via the airlines ;)

As for my personal opinion - if i DID have to travel with a seat and was not using it on the aircraft i would travel with a "throw away" seat (eg one that was inexpensive like a scenera or maestro) just in case it was badly damaged some how..... if it comes out unharmed, great, but if it ends up beaten then I'm only out $40-$60 ya know?
Click to expand...

I personally would rather have the child restrained so I don't have to hold a child and/or deal with a child who doesn't want to sit in the airplane seat. Children as a whole generally do better in their car seats :)

And most people drive/get a ride to the airport with their child riding in their car seat and don't want to have to box it up and tape it up prior to boarding, especially with everything else that occupies your time, attention and extra hands at the airport.
 
M

Mommy!

Active member
Also as jeminijad mentioned, versus the case of airline checked seats falling 15 feet or more to the tarmac, most loading docks are 4 or 5 feet off the ground at the most. Still not great for a fall, but a 4 foot fall in a snug fitting carton is very different that 15 plus feet basically with no real protection.

Besides retailers generally prefer their products arrive in an undamaged condition which gives those involved in the transportation more reason to treat things generally decently. I would think a seat in its carton falling several feet would likely leave some dents etc on the carton corners, which is something you can check for when you purchase it.
 
VoodooChile

VoodooChile

New member
I know in mid-July, Diono answered a question on their FB wall about this (I think the question may have been about the bags, actually). They said the seat should be used on the plane, but if the person was going to check it, they should gate-check, where it would probably be handled more gently.
 
T4K

T4K

Well-known member
Brianna

Brianna

New member
What do you think the best way to phrase that would be? I mean, I wouldn't want to tell somebody it's okay and then have them tell their friends "car-seat.org said it was okay and my car seat has a crack in it."

I've been pro-airplane car seat use since I learned why, but my returning flight a few months back really scared the crud out of me. The pilot suddenly braked hard while we were taxiing out and I had to put my hands up to keep my face from hitting the seat in front of me. Without a doubt if there had been a baby/toddler on my lap, they would have hit the tray in front of them. So that personal experience really makes it hard for me to nicely tell somebody I really don't think lap babies are a good idea.
 
Baylor

Baylor

New member
Carrie_R said:
I know we had a family post on here maybe a year ago with a story, including photos, of their Radian. It was checked in a carseat bag and the results were not pretty.

I think, for me, the difference is that the boxes the seats are shipped in are designed/chosen/endorsed by the mfg for that purpose. It's akin to saying, "your Keyfit headrest is fine, but this walmart one is not," because one has been tested by the mfg and the other hasn't.

Plus, most people only protect their checked seats with the flimsy plastic bags provided by the airline, and yeah... Those don't do anything to protect from tarmac impacts.
Click to expand...

But isn't that like any other thing? Luggage? I have flown a number of times. Never have I had luggage smashed or damaged. Never lost.

ETA: And please understand I am not arguing with anyone. I know that many of you are so incredibly educated when it comes to car seats, usage and treatment. Im just asking to learn more and figure it out in my head. I respect you in the trenches very much!

So I think for the few stories we hear about damage, There are THOUSANDS that are just fine.

Im just not so sure that a cardboard box and some plastic wrapping makes a big difference when the seat is thrown from one truck to another.

My thoughts are that we just have no idea what has happened to that seat by the time it arrives at the store.

I am just trying to find a good answer and safe procedure to follow.
 
ketchupqueen

ketchupqueen

CPST and ketchup snob
Staff member
It's a difference of scale, to me.

Also, you're guaranteed that your seat gets there safely if you ship- if not, there's recourse, they will pay to replace it if necessary. Airlines generally have a "tough luck, not our liability, you signed that away" policy.
 
tiggercat

tiggercat

New member
Baylor said:
So I think for the few stories we hear about damage, There are THOUSANDS that are just fine.

I am just trying to find a good answer and safe procedure to follow.
Click to expand...

Chances are checked seats are ok if there is no visible damage. But there is a chance that it might be compromised and fail to hold up when you need it the most - during the tremendous forces of a collision. I don't want to take that chance with my kid.
Yes, there is a chance the seat has been dropped during transport to store or shipping to consumer. That makes me more wary of risking the potential additional damage that could happen during checking on an airplane. We know most seats are ok after a minor collision (nhsta study, given conditions are met), so it stands to reason that seats can withstand transport. But how many of these "minor events" can happen before it fails in a crash?
Take a Britax that fell off the truck during transport to the store, fell off the shelf during stocking, had two minor crashes which didn't require replacement, was further checked on an airplane twice a year (2 layovers each) for it's 6 year lifespan... That is a LOT to expect from a chunk of plastic. You bet I would not trust my child's future to it!

Sent from my iPod touch using Car-Seat.Org
 
SeattleRain

SeattleRain

New member
I think it's probably an incorrect assumption that boxes received from stores are treated better because stores want them intact. I'm sure they don't want them filthy and ripped to shreds, but I'm sure they have no qualms about tossing them around, dropping them, throwing them, or whatever. They're not saying to themselves "Dropping this car seat could cause unseen damage and could possibly injure a child in a crash." This is probably especially true of seats that come in boxes. I've seen some pretty rough looking groceries in my day, leading me to believe that stuff isn't always treated kindly.

I think all things considered, car seats are probably more durable than we give them credit for. I highly doubt they're so fragile that being dropped in a box will cause insurmountable harm to the seat, so much so that it will under perform in a way that could be fatal. If that were the case, car seats would come wrapped in bubble wrap and styrofoam because manufacturers would want to prevent that kind of damage. By them packing them in plastic bags (sometimes) I think that's an indication they're more sturdy than they look. The reality is that you never know how your Scenera was treated when you look at it on the shelf at Target.

All that said, I think it's unwise to check your car seat without a box. I've had luggage come back to me missing handles, worn out fabric, and dirty and I wouldn't want to see that in my seat. Car seats have a lot of stuff hanging off of them (tethers, harnesses, LATCH straps) that could catch and get torn and that would be a really bad thing. Probably deadly. I don't think there's any reason not to pack your seat up in the box it came in and throw some styrofoam peanuts etc. in there and check it, if for some reason the kid who needs the seat isn't going to be sitting in it on the plane.
 
LISmama810

LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
ketchupqueen said:
It's a difference of scale, to me.

Also, you're guaranteed that your seat gets there safely if you ship- if not, there's recourse, they will pay to replace it if necessary. Airlines generally have a "tough luck, not our liability, you signed that away" policy.
Click to expand...

Yeah. If UPS destroys a seat, they're liable. If United Airlines destroys a seat, tough luck. One has a vested interest in handling things properly. The other doesn't.

I've had airlines lose my luggage twice, and I don't fly all that often. It's not at all unheard of.

At seat checks, I have seen at least two seats that had visible damage after being checked.
 
Baylor

Baylor

New member
I think I made the wrong title. I did not mean shipping while traveling but just overall shipping it takes to get seat to stores and us.

Not shipping to location instead of checking.

I have been thinking about this a lot lately. I just really can not see how it would be much different. I can not believe that a seat is crashed after checking even though I have repeated that to people when asked as per what I have heard here. But now I am rethinking it. Its not installed. Car seats are not automatically considered crashed even after some actual crashes.
I don't know. Some days I am way more confused than others.
 
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